Ive been a student of Tolle's teachings for many years. I don't recall ever hearing him proclaiming himself as a "Guru", "Master teacher" or anything like that. In Power of Now he mentions to be cautious of anyone who does.

Power of Now has helped many people of different religious faiths grow in there own spirituality. Ive met two people, both diagnosed with Cancer, one was a Roman Catholic and the other an Evangelical that found the book very inspirational. Neither left their faith or became "New Agers".

I think many of the people that have been really moved by his books, The Power of Now and The New Earth have put him on a pedestal or anointed him to guru status in there own minds. I know he mentioned humorously once how he was out in public with a cup of coffee and several people recognized him and were shocked and disgusted because he was drinking coffee.

I truly believe he had a significant spiritual experience. Actually quite similar to Bill Wilson's, the Co-Founder of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I do spiritual counseling with people when asked too based on his teachings. I don't push it on anyone that doesn't ask. I think the Power of Now is very practical for every day living however I must admit that after reading A New Earth I knew he was really gonna stir the pot up with that book. I agree with the book but knew it would really push some buttons.

Now I have never heard of Byron Katie until reading this forum. Checking out her web page gave me the feeling that she was looking to cash in on the people who are reading into mental stillness and presence. Oprah has made Tolle and his teaching's to become a sensation of almost celebrity status so it doesn't me that people are looking to cash in on it.

that is exactly right! Those are called Embedded Commands, which are suggestions integrated right into the text. When these are repeated over and over, they do become accepted in the unconscious mind, if done correctly. That's why those who know how to do it, get the big bucks.

This is why saying its "Voluntary" is at best ironic, and frankly is another absurd in-joke.
How can something that is unconscious be voluntary, when the subject has no idea what just happened, as the voluntary conscious system has been by-passed?
How can influence that is unconscious, that the person is completely UNAWARE of, be voluntary?
Once something become unconscious, by definition, its involuntary.
- Do you voluntarily do automatic habits each day?
- do we choose voluntarily how to tie our shoes each day, or use Arabic numerals in our minds?
- Do you voluntarily accept your cultural constraints you are not aware even exist?
This is the level she is working at.

and this is just one piece of the puzzle of course, as she is also using many other more standard LGAT techniques, and social influence techniques as well.

But she has an entire SYSTEM of using the methods shown below. An entire mytholgy.
She is highly skilled in this area, the problem is the extreme deception, and how this is being misused, and its getting worse, not better. Power corrupts.

Its highly likely that many people around her have no real idea of exactly what she is doing.
But obviously the main core people around her, know exactly what is being done, and exactly how its being done, and they are trying to cover this up, DEFLECT, and market her as a simplistic Girlfriend Getaway talking head.
She is not that.
She can literally restructure people's psyche's, beginning with the 9 day School for the Work LGAT seminar, and then moving from there into the other series of coachings, seminars, and programs extending for years.
By the end of it, your universe literally is Byron Katie.

Its complicated, but its not rocket science, and she is not the only one doing these things.
Why is she doing it? The common reasons all the guru's do it, self-centeredness, lack of empathy, NPD personality disorders [www.mental-health-today.com] power, fame, attention, money, real estate, delusions of self-grandeur, sex, intellectual arrogance, social experiments. The usual.
and its impossible to believe they believe their own lies and have a good intentions, as then why is the deception so systematic and organized? That shows the conscious intent.
There is more than one Bernie Madoff & Family on this planet.

Quote
Jay Cruise
In this blog entry these are the suggestions that Byron Katie is making:

I hope that you have followed what I have just written, as so many of you who love The Work for so many months or years have been able to do. Your own answers to the questions and examples of turnarounds have kept us as one, undivided in peace and beyond, for so many months, even years. I live in you and I die in you, what else is possible? Nothing. I love living in you if you love it, and I can tell you that you live in me and only that, you are my life. I love not belonging to me and you do and belonging to you when I do. What identification have you given me? I live as that. Do you love me yet? I welcome you to love beyond the self.

Which is just creepy.

Is that about right?

Ross Robinson does specifically refer people to The Work in some interviews, its a family business.

[forum.culteducation.com]
"6. Deep, excessive probing into one's past traumas. (She used violent Korn music to trigger our worst memories.) "

Byron Katie, The Work Rap incident, ka-ching
[janakisstory.wordpress.com]
"Roxann told me that the reason she had stopped playing it, is because Ross (Katie’s son) had told her that it resembled music from Twin Peaks".

Quote
Christa
...
Katie's son, Ross Robinson, ... worked with lots of groups, including KoRn and Limp Bizkit...
I can't help but wonder about any cross-fertilization that might have occurred between Katie and Ross.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2009 06:40AM by The Anticult.

Let's look at one of Byron's latest blog entries, dated March 7, 2009:

[[url=http://www.byronkatie.com/2009/03/letter_my_son_will_soon_be_dea.htm]Letter: "My son will soon be dead"[/url]]

It's about a woman who says she did Katie's school in 2006 and during it "worked" on the issue of losing one of her sons to drowning at 18 months. Her latest issue is that one of her greatest fears has manifested: her other son is going to die soon from a brain tumor.

It's ghastly that this woman is having The Work done on her in the midst of what must be tremendous suffering.

Here's Byron's response to this woman. I've bolded embedded suggestions as well as a few comments.

Dearest JJ,

You do "yet" know how, The Work works when your dear mind is open to "what is next". You're not prepared for his death yet, is it true?

It sounds like your [sic] not prepared for his LIFE yet, he isn't dead, he is still living!!!!!! The dead or dying son in your heads image is not your son, it is an image. You are trading your sons life now, for images of death, not your sons life and it is "killing" your time with him and your life with him in joy. He has a right to believe that he is "not worth it", listen to him, he has a right to his opinion and it doesn't mean that he isn't worth everything to you, you can still honor his opinion. You don't have to agree, your opinion is your business unless you think that his life is not worth $1500. per mo and maybe you don't sense you don't believe that he is going to live anyway, and in an odd way it is understandable that the mind would take you there. [last two sentences = confusion]

I love you JJ, don't let your unquestioned mind cost you one minute with that darling, dear, dearest son of yours. Is it sadness that you are feeling or love? [confusion] Isn't it love, feel it as deeply as you can, let it live in you, allow it, let it cry you, take you over even, its okay, love is all powerful. Don't confuse feelings that you believe to be sadness with what love feels like, my dearest. I am with you, ask him to hold you for me. [more confusion]

with all of my heart,
kt

Quote
Don Shimoda
I do spiritual counseling with people when asked too based on his teachings. I don't push it on anyone that doesn't ask. I think the Power of Now is very practical for every day living however I must admit that after reading A New Earth I knew he was really gonna stir the pot up with that book. I agree with the book but knew it would really push some buttons.

Hi Don,

I'm wondering exactly what in Tolle's teachings you find "very practical for every day living"?

I read "The Power of Now" a while back. In fact I tried reading it again. I got absolutely nothing from it. Instead I found myself feeling really turned off every time he demonized the thinking mind. Which he does a lot! If person really takes that in, that is distrusts their thinking mind, they could easily become dissociated.

That definitely happened to me when following the advice of a different teacher of alleged non-duality. I'm still in the process of recovering from that. Might be for the rest of my life.

I stay away from those teachers "now". :-P

Btw, "Don Shimoda" is the name of the fictitious teacher of Richard Bach in his book "Illusions". Is that your real name?

H



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2009 07:24AM by helpme2times.

There is another thread for Eckhart Tolle here.

The Power of Now - Eckhart Tolle
[forum.culteducation.com]
maybe its better to post about Eckhart Tolle there?
but ET has been debunked, sounds like he read the Nog book too! Same story.
there is no such thing as spontaneous enlightenment. And even if he had some type of a brain-stroke, then it can't be taught.

Its interesting how for example, Guruphiliac hammers Eckhart Tolle in a couple dozen attacks.
[guruphiliac.blogspot.com]
Yet Byron Katie is FAR FAR more damaging to people than Tolle appears to be so far.

Quote
helpme2times

Quote
Don Shimoda
I do spiritual counseling with people when asked too based on his teachings. I don't push it on anyone that doesn't ask. I think the Power of Now is very practical for every day living however I must admit that after reading A New Earth I knew he was really gonna stir the pot up with that book. I agree with the book but knew it would really push some buttons.

Hi Don,

I'm wondering exactly what in Tolle's teachings you find "very practical for every day living"?

I read "The Power of Now" a while back. In fact I tried reading it again. I got absolutely nothing from it. Instead I found myself feeling really turned off every time he demonized the thinking mind. Which he does a lot! If person really takes that in, that is distrusts their thinking mind, they could easily become dissociated.

That definitely happened to me when following the advice of a different teacher of alleged non-duality. I'm still in the process of recovering from that. Might be for the rest of my life.

I stay away from those teachers "now". :-P

Btw, "Don Shimoda" is the name of the fictitious teacher of Richard Bach in his book "Illusions". Is that your real name?

H

No my real name is Jeff. I loved that book and always use it on forums. Its just a habit.

Many people don't connect with the Power of Now. Saying that I am in now way implying that you or anyone else "Isn't spiritual enough" or "Not ready to except the truth." or any of that crap.
I have a friend/Coworker who's wife is very Ill. Sadly it doesn't look good for her. Something inside me said get him that book. He got nothing out of it all. And ill be honest, my ego was a little bruised when I realized I wasn't the "Yoda" spiritual master that I like tothink of myself as. I will be the first to admit I am not enlightened and do have the occasional delusions of grandeur.

However he later told that both his grieving daughter and wife were very moved by it. They couldn't put it down.

However his wife and daughter were very moved by the book and both couldn't put it down.

Practical purpose?
Well I have always been consumed in thought my whole life. Always daydreaming always wanting to be somewhere else,doing something else, being someone else that where I was at. From mowing my parents lawn as a kid to doing a home improvement job on own house today. Presence and mental stillness have for some reason changed all that. Quality of what I do seems to have improved quite a bit when you are in the the hear and now.

Work is no longer just a means to an end. I used to be miserable at work. "If only I made more money", "If only I had a better job." "I wont be happy untill my work day is over" "My work day is over but its monday nite and I have to go to work again in the morning so I really wont be happy untill friday" "Well its sunday now and I cant really enjoy the day because tomorrow is monday and I have to go back to work".

I no longer live like that anymore. I enjoy my job. I no longer get angry and frustrated while waiting in the long line and the grocery store, or the long traffic jam On my way to or from someplace. Tolle's teaching taught me that I don't have to be miserable anymore.

Before I thought the answer was SSRI's such as Paxil,Prozac,Zoloft along with the very dangerous and addictive benzodiazapines such as as Xanax. Or sitting on a bar stool self medicating all my miserable thoughts away with alcohol. (Hopefully I don't sound like Tom Cruise or a scientologist)

I have read a lot in this forum about "Dualistic and non-dualistic" thinking or concepts. Ill admit I am not clear on exactly what you mean by all that.

Thank you for posting this video link! Which year is that video from?

Byron Katie obviously has studied the U.G. Krishnamurti anti-guru non-message message, very carefully, you can see that in the tape, as she knows his material very well. She studied all these guy's material. You can see how clever she is in that video. Its good to see that video, before she polished her image, talking-points, speaking techniques, etc.

When she begins to speak in video #2, I don't recall one word she said, just almost a random word-salad. It would be interesting to see a transcript of what she said there. But that seems to have just been some confusion-inducing, just to create some smoke. Self, No-Self, potato-potahto, tomato-tomahto, blah blah. Why say anything then?

BK does say she believes there is no "truth" other than that of the observer, and seems to believe it in the moment. She is actually utterly wrong, by the way...

U.G. Krishnamurti comment of...GIMMICKS, is classic, and appropriate. He nailed it.
He said he studied most world religions and philosophy, and he probably did. In doing so, he would have seen hundreds of these GIMMICKS like the 4 Questions, which are at BEST a cheesy gimmick. At worst, and in actuality, they are a mental prison and trap, and the opposite of freedom.

But UG Krishnamurti is incredibly ignorant about philosophy of scientific knowledge. If you took UG in a helicopter, and dropped him over LA, what are the chances he would go splat on the ground?
One could say there is no such thing as Absolute Truth, but "truth" in terms of accuracy is a continuum, from near 0%-near 100%, you can get close to 100%, but never at 100%, for anything, even gravity. But some things are more accurate than others. It appears they don't want to know that, and instead just play word games instead.
Someone called UG a "spiritual terrorist", that sounds about right. BK learned her lessons well.

What is so funny, is here you have these 2 people, who's basic message is there is No Self, and No Thought, and No Truth.
And yet they NEVER SHUT UP on that tape and in life!
How can a person never stop talking about nothing, for decades? Its really unreal, that no one asks BK about that. If there is no thought, then why not please stop selling your thoughts with mass-marketing advertising techniques!
Why did she need to produce and sell hundreds of tapes, booklets, videos, now CD's, DVD's, seminars, etc, for decades? Why coaching MLM systems, and literally dozens of other products?
You know how much hard work it is to produce all that product?
all about nothing?
:-)
Its a cash-machine.

the key to understanding BK is to look at the earliest material, before she really nailed down her Stories and Talking-Points. Now she literally is like a politician, no matter what question anyone asks, she'll come out with the same Katie-bot non-response, as mentioned in that recent review.
Talk about gimmicks and being inauthentic, and not being in the moment.
Kinda ironic, don't ya think?

Quote
Meadow
I remember from years ago that Katie (on her tapes) used to refer to U.G. Krishnamurti a lot. She once said that he was the only human being she ever met that was in “her” state. I once met U.G. He appeared to be free, ruthless, uncompromising, tactless, rude and also funny in his own peculiar way. U.G. was totally not interested in creating any kind of philosophy, methodology, movement or following. He branded every single guru as a con man or woman. There are several YouTube clips with the entire interview between Willem de Ridder, Byron Katie and U.G. When U.G. switches on the ‘talk’ button, it is very hard to get a word in edgewise or any wise. The same with Katie. Finally she got to say something and tried to talk to him about her questions, and tries to get him to admit to something. When she was done talking, Willem asked U.G. for his comment. He said ‘no comment… politicians… gimmicks…’.

Interview Willem de Ridder, Byron Katie and U.G. Krishnamurti (5 parts)
[www.youtube.com]

UG Krishnamurti played a role in assisting Luna Tarlo and some others to become free from Andrew Cohen.

Luna tells of this in great detail in her memoir, The Mother of God. (1997, privately printed on Plover Press)

UG also had a strange and hard to trace sort of awakening.

Andrew Cohen had a seemingly spontaneous awakening, but only in conjunction with a dubious neo advaita type guru, HWL Poonja, who claimed to be in the lineage of Ramana Maharshi, who it turns out never designated anyone to be a successor.

When Cohen got too abusive, a good number of his students switched to Poonja, including Antoinette Warner or Varner, who later became Gangaji. Poonja, according to Tarlo, never spoke directly with Andrew about his harshness, but began making derogatory comments about his former protege.

After the two of them broke up, Andrew started his magazine (What Is Enlightement, now changed to EnlightenNext), and linked up with Ken Wilber. Some state the magazine has become nothing more than a house organ for Wilbers brand of integralism, and its far less interesting to read than it once was.

(Note: Gangaji and her husband Eli Jaxon-Bear also, both of them, have or had snow white hair, and I think there were reports that Gangaji also got a face lift. They both looked young and weirdly venerable at the same time. But they both kept their complexions fresh and unscathed by exposure to harsh sunlight, unlike BK)

What year the UG & BK interview was from: on the first clip it says 1998.