Quote
corboy
Regarding the Guruphiliac post on ET alluded to above:

Over the years Mr Ross has comported himself in a steady and gentlemanly manner---even when under pressure and baited by trolls.

Because Mr Ross conducted RR.com in an adult and decorous manner, and by maintaining high journalistic standards, RR.com earned and attracted legal advocacy in its hour of need---and by maintaining its polite and informative tone----is still here today.

right on corboy, that is why i continue to come here and when i have some spare cash i fully intent to mail him a money order (i'm on disability so i'm on a very strict budget and the internet is a huge luxury for me and my sort of life line to the outside world)...rickross has been a huge support to me in my time of emotional upheaval, by providing me with information and like-minded people to dialogue with. (i have a supportive family, however they could not really understand what i was going through).

thanks for your accessment, it is right on!
regards,
Shad

Quote
jj52
helpme2times,

Thank you. I wonder how many people coming out of cults (of any kind) fail to get the help they need because of attitudes like the one Shadow has expressed? There's nothing like being told you're stupid for your involvement in the cult, after it's completely destroyed your sense of self! OUCH! That ought to be enough to make people go running back to their cult
-jj

jj,
i visited the Guruphialiac blog last night to see what Anticult was talking about, and I could not make head or tail of it. I got no sense of whether or not people had actually been involved in a LGAT, or if they were just responding to other who had.

AT NO TIME did i say that people are "stupid for your involvement in the cult" (where did that come from JJ?) - and i would never say that, knowing how insideous and crafty LGATs are in recruiting people. What i want to impart is that people need to be in the REAL world, and through participation in the real world, it is sometimes possible to find the divine (i know this from personal experience).

I agree that perhaps I could have been a bit more circumspect in expressing my opinion here.

regards,
Shad

Shad,

Thanks for clearing that up. In the context it was given, it did appear to me to be aimed at people involved with BK. I misunderstood. I'm glad to know what you really meant!

-jj

So, I've been reading all of the mainstream self-help type books about cults, and I finally got to Steve Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control." [See disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan below] I started reading it today, and have already had several "a-ha" moments. I'm also really starting to feel the grief of my loss through my involvement with Byron Katie.

Over the last week, there was a discussion here about the exercise at the School where participants were asked to think of something valuable in their rooms, wrap it up, and give it to BK... not to be returned for the most part. (Just a brief recap after the Guruphiliac detour:) Blammo shared about his relatives who apparently gave away $100,000 in jewelry. And, I witnessed others who gave up their wedding rings and valuables.

Today as I was reading Hassan's personal experience I made a connection between this exercise at the BK School, and something that Hassan had to do during his induction into the Moonies. He called it the "Isaac", referring to the Biblical story of Isaac and Abraham. He was instructed to give up something very dear and valuable to him in sacrifice, to prove/strengthen his commitment to the cult. (His bank account was already theirs... it was supposed to be something more, something personal.)

This exercise took place the last day of The School. After we'd already made so many sacrifices for BK, it was reinforced with one more big sacrifice on the last day. We were told that it was to teach us that material objects really have no meaning, and to teach us to let go. This was supposed to be for our spiritual well-being.

How convenient it must be for the guru to train her followers to let go of things that have meaning to them, and to convince them that they really have no meaning at all.

Before I read this in Hassan's book, I thought that BK was just being greedy by taking our stuff. Now I realize it had a much deeper purpose: To strengthen our commitment to her, and to teach us how not to hang on to things we value... like OURSELVES and OUR GRASP ON REALITY... and of course, OUR HARD EARNED MONEY. To be willing to give it all up... if asked.

I can guess that participants in her new Turnaround House have already been through several Schools for The Work. They are the ones who are the most committed... who will pay $20,000 to spend 28 days in house with BK and 5 other participants.

I wonder what the next step is for them. Frightening to think about.

Well, I'm oh-so glad that I didn't give up anything of value... and then when I had the chance, I took back my "Isaac." A few months after The School, when doing The Work was making me break down into tears, I threw away everything from The School, all of my BK books, and everything associated with it.

Everything except my "Isaac"... which was just a little stuffed animal someone gave me at The School. I kept it, but didn't know why... it just had some new meaning for me. Now I realize... that it is a symbol of the lack of commitment to BK that saved me from totally losing myself. It's a symbol of the commitment to myself that saved me.

I also read about Love Bombing today... that makes so much sense. We were love bombed at The School from the moment we walked in, and were taught to love bomb each other very quickly.

Ugh.

Seeing these similarities between BK and the Moonies... is disturbing, and freeing... and wow. The Moonies even used fasting, too. I feel so much grief.

Even though BK doesn't openly claim to be The Messiah, the hypnotic suggestion is given over and over that she is the "savior" of the world, and the bringer of "The only way to God." She is much more covert, but it's all the same in the end.

-jj

Disclaimer regarding Steve Hassan

The Ross Institute of New Jersey/May 2013

See [www.culteducation.com]

The inclusion of news articles within the Ross Institute of New Jersey (RI) archives, which mention and/or quote Steven Hassan, in no way suggests that RI recommends Mr. Hassan or recognizes him in any way.

News articles that mention Steve Hassan have been archived for historical purposes only due to the information they contain about controversial groups, movements and/or leaders.

RI does not recommend Steven Hassan.

RI has received serious complaints about Steve Hassan concerning his fees. Mr. Hassan does not publicly disclose his fee schedule, but according to complaints Steve Hassan has charged fees varying from $250.00 per hour or $2,500.00 per day to $500.00 per hour or $5,000.00 per day. This does not include Mr. Hassan's expenses, which according to complaints can be quite substantial.

Steven Hassan has charged families tens of thousands of dollars and provided questionable results. One recent complaint cited total fees of almost $50,000.00. But this very expensive intervention effort ended in failure.

Dr. Cathleen Mann, who holds a doctorate in psychology and has been a licensed counselor in the state of Colorado since 1994 points out, "Nowhere does Hassan provide a base rate and/or any type or accepted statistical method defining his results..."

Steve Hassan has at times suggested to potential clients that they purchase a preliminary report based upon what he calls his "BITE" model. These "BITE reports" can potentially cost thousands of dollars.

See [corp.sec.state.ma.us]

Steve Hassan runs a for-profit corporation called "Freedom of Mind." Mr. Hassan is listed as the corporate agent for that business as well as its president and treasurer.

RI does not recommend "Freedom of Mind" as a resource.

RI also does not list or recommend Steve Hassan's books.

To better understand why Mr. Hassan's books are not recommended by RI read this detailed review of his most recently self-published book titled "Freedom of Mind."

See [www.cultnews.com]

Steve Hassan's cult intervention methodology has historically raised concerns since its inception. The book "Recovery from Cults" (W.W. Norton & Co. pp. 174-175) edited by Dr. Michael Langone states the following:

"Calling his approach 'strategic intervention [sic] therapy,' Hassan (1988) stresses that, although he too tries to communicate a body of information to cultists and to help them think independently, he also does formal counseling. As with many humanistic counseling approaches, Hassan’s runs the risk of imposing clarity, however subtly, on the framework’s foundational ambiguity and thereby manipulating the client."

RI has also learned that Mr. Hassan has had dual-relationships with his counseling clients. That is, clients seeing Mr. Hassan for counseling may also do professional cult intervention work with him.

Professionals in the field of cultic studies have also expressed concerns regarding Steven Hassan's use of hypnosis and Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP).

Based upon complaints and the concerns expressed about Mr. Hassan RI does not recommend Steve Hassan for counseling, intervention work or any other form of professional consultation.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2013 09:33PM by rrmoderator.

Yes, lets all try to remember (including me) that we are dealing with plain-text email, and its very easy to misinterpret that text at times.
Also, we are dealing with complex, and at times highly emotional material, which can trigger the occasional Flame-War, especially if one has had one too many coffees.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with expressing strong emotion, as well as logic and critical thinking. Contrary to the nonsense and lies that Byron Katie and others teach, its a GOOD thing to be a Human.
Actually, accepting ones humanity and human fallibility is probably the secret to happiness.
Note that is basically the exact opposite of what many of them teach?

Ya think they want to make you more miserable, and only feel Blissed-Out at their LOVE BOMB Seminars, so they can make more money? Customer for Life? Ya think???

now back tothe Flame Wars...of LOVE. We flame, but we do it with ETERNAL AGAPE LOVE BOMBING!!!
(that's a joke...)

It will be interesting to see what information comes out about the DAMAGES sustained at the Byron KAtie School LGAT seminars.

That type of Mind-Distortion, and Thought-Manipulation, going on 18+ hrs a day, 9 days in a row.
For many people with a problem, that could easily push them over the edge.

They claim NO OVER WAS EVER HURT by The Work.
Oh yeah, then prove it? Where is the evidence for that claim? There is none.

Why does Katie force them to sign away on any DAMAGES caused by her School, if there aren't any?

Makes sense? No of course not.

How many people who are vulnerable mentally were pushed in Mania, or even psychosis, and mental breakdown at a Byron Katie School?
How many spiral down, and then have to go into her Turnaround House for $20,000.
How many of these people end up in the hospital, or worse?

It will be very interesting to see if any payouts for Damages have been made, that would come to light in certain circumstances. For now, they keep it all hidden, any payouts for damages?
Top Secret.

Below is a comment from the Guruphiliac blog, made by a senior player in the Byron Katie system, who has many websites about Byron Katie. She appears to be a very active professional Facilitator for Byron Katie.
[www.google.com]
It was made from her Blogger account so it's her, and is reproduced below for convenience of analysis, as well as in case its ordered taken down by a certain Goddess. Its very revealing.

She begins by announcing she is "long-time reader and fan of Guruphiliac". Interesting, not sure if Jody Guruphiliac is going to appreciate another Byron Katire personal endorsement! What is telling, is she is a fan of Guruphiliac, which is a blog which literally tears Gurus a new one, with the most histrionic and vicious language possible as its style of satire and attack. Yet her tender eyes are too sweet to see the detailed technical concerns being raised by those she may have met and even taught? Does that make logical sense?

Then Carol moves to the typical Ad Hominem of the critics of Katie, to try and deflect from the issues, of course. That is standard. She refuses to deal with or answer the serious questions being made, and just denies they exist. See how it works?

She tells you, you can "take your toys home at the end", but you are happier leaving them? What is she talking about? $100,000 in jewellery, or you own "stories". More with the "stories", every LGAT has to sell their stories...

She says, "I am not my story". Does she not realize that is false? If anything, she is story of trying to not be her story! More loaded language. Sorry Carol L. Skolnick and Byron Katie, you are making a false claim. Human's actually ARE their stories, that appears to be how the brain "stores" information. How can you not have a story? Cut the brain out with a knife? Its total nonsense. BK and CArol just want them to switch to THEIR story!

She says we are not supposed to "get" anything other than "clarity". Again, this is just semantic games. Its like saying..."I desperately want to be non-attached". How can she WANT to NOT GET? Its a mind-screw folks, very basic. Whether or not Carol "gets it" or not is just mouthing words.

She closes off with a bunch of Programmed Confusion, of which I can generate as well. That is SUPPOSED to NOT make sense...why?
So you call her up and get some Byron Katie "coaching" and get referred to the School. ka-ching!!

So she has offered to answer questions about The Work, eh?
What does she have to say about the LGAT techniques of Thought Reform, that she is enmeshed in? Or is it going to be more Katie-babble and deflection, denial, and distortion?

This ain't rocket science folks.
Its simple manipulation. Some may be unconscious about what they are doing, but that is highly doubtful. No one is a professional facilitator, unless they understand what is going on behind the scenes. They see the process of mind-control work, and they begin to get off on the power of it. Its a Power-Trip...power corrupts, that is a fact of reality.

Why not see how "honest" these folks are, and see how they deal with direct questions?

Or will they give you this babble (I can do it too).

..its about releasing those aspects of your identity that you keep as a story, that keep you connected to everything you don't want to experience. You see, when you want to "be" something, that very story often blocks you from Awakening to your deeper"ness", which is beyond "story". You begin to find this Clarity is not something to be gained, or lost, or even found. It is the non-story of story...that same Clarity we spoke of.
If you would like to dicuss this more, please give me a call, and we can have some tea, and then I will take over your mind for 10 years or maybe even for life. Love...The Anticult.



[guruphiliac.blogspot.com]
----------------------------------------------
At 2/27/2008 2:00 PM, Carol L. Skolnick said...
I'm a long-time reader and fan of Guruphiliac and I am also a facilitator of The Work. I'm reading with interest all the opinions of Byron Katie and The Work that are posted here, and I've also read the "anti-cult" stuff at culteducation.com, where they're now tarring and feathering our Jody. I won't bother to defend him, or Steve S., or Katie, or myself...as if I could; and I realize that nobody is everyone's cuppa chai.

However, I would like to clarify a few things about The Work, if I may.

>>It seems as though Katie's work is designed to shake up the connection to a personal "story".<<

In part, yes. The way I see it, The Work is a way to expand awareness. A common misconception of The Work is that it is meant to make the client "wrong," i.e. "whatever you believe can't be true." I see it as providing options. I always get to take my old toys back and go home in the end, if I still want them...and sometimes, I do, but most of the time, I'm happier to leave them behind.

>>However, because it is NOT allowed to "arise" naturally but, instead,is presented as this "system" for dealing with life's questions, it may be doomed to go the way of other such systems.<<

For me, the awareness that I am not my story actually does arise naturally from inquiry, just as for some people, it arises in meditation. One way is not less "natural" than the other. If you try to force an awareness from the inquiry, it's b.s., it doesn't stay. The same is true of any modality.

>>People get "bored" when it doesn't get them what they want and drop it.<<

Exactly; anything done with a motive to get something is going to become boring if you don't get what you want, or if you get it and realize it's not giving you the desired effect. For example, people get bored with Law of Attraction if they don't get the big house or the fancy car or the perfect partner quickly or at all...or when they discover that the house and car and partner aren't quite "it."

The Work can be practiced without any motive to "get" anything other than some clarity, and speaking for myself, this has been the most valuable way to approach it. If I want to become instantly enlightened, or to manipulate others through my supposed "clarity," (i.e. I'll become more loving so that they'll love me), I'm setting myself up for a fall.

>>Meanwhile, the Katie "questions" might actually prevent alot of people from finding an authentic way of being.<<

After many years of practicing this inquiry, I see myself as showing up more authentically than I ever did, because there is less fear in the equation. Stressful beliefs are fear-based, and when I began to have less investment in the drama, I became less fearful and therefore more available, to myself and others. It's been good to have that reality-check.

If one answers the questions automatically, mentally, saying what you think you're supposed to say rather than what you genuinely feel, without really steeping in the questions (probably more easily done NOT on a stage with Katie in front of hundreds of people, although I'm able to do that, myself), it's not going to be of much benefit. Practiced as a meditation/contemplation, it's actually a very direct and down-to-earth way of experiencing something akin to what the Ramana-style teachers point to, only you don't need anyone to "transmit" it to you. (As, indeed, they cannot.)

If anyone wants to contact me personally with sincere questions and concerns about The Work and the School for The Work (i.e. not personal attacks), I'm happy to answer as best I can.

Heavy stuff JJ, very important, you've cracked it wide open.
Byron Katie and The Moonies? Maybe they borrowed some of their methods?

I agree, they want your valuable property, AND they want the stuff with the MOST MEANING to go to Katie, this gives her maximum Transference power over you. They love the techniques with multiple layers...they call that "elegant".

The Byron Katie Love Bombing is a totally conscious technique she is using, and is really insidious, as its so powerful on certain people.
Byron Katie is even is working with Neale Donald Walsch and Carol L. Skolnick on Love-Bombing the public. Utterly shameless manipulation.
Are Carol and Neal going to answer questions about the Technique called Love Bombing they are doing on the public?

[blog.beliefnet.com]
"We fall in love with Katie because she reflects, and sees in us, that which is beautiful in ourselves...and has shown hundreds of thousands of us how to have that vision with her simple four-question inquiry. At least, that is my experience and has been for the many years I've been privileged to call her my mentor and friend. I love that you have made her acquaintance, Neale."
Love,
Carol
Posted by: Carol L. Skolnick, ClearLifeSolutions.com | January 29, 2008 1:01 AM
[soulsurgery.blogspot.com]

Quote
jj52
...
Before I read this in Hassan's book, I thought that BK was just being greedy by taking our stuff. Now I realize it had a much deeper purpose: To strengthen our commitment to her, and to teach us how not to hang on to things we value... like OURSELVES and OUR GRASP ON REALITY... and of course, OUR HARD EARNED MONEY. To be willing to give it all up... if asked.
...
Everything except my "Isaac"... which was just a little stuffed animal someone gave me at The School. I kept it, but didn't know why... it just had some new meaning for me. Now I realize... that it is a symbol of the lack of commitment to BK that saved me from totally losing myself. It's a symbol of the commitment to myself that saved me.

I also read about Love Bombing today... that makes so much sense. We were love bombed at The School from the moment we walked in, and were taught to love bomb each other very quickly.

Ugh.

Seeing these similarities between BK and the Moonies... is disturbing, and freeing... and wow. The Moonies even used fasting, too. I feel so much grief.

Even though BK doesn't openly claim to be The Messiah, the hypnotic suggestion is given over and over that she is the "savior" of the world, and the bringer of "The only way to God." She is much more covert, but it's all the same in the end.

-jj

Jeez Whiz....

I just "noticed" the title of the blog for Carol L. Skolnick.
soulsurgery.blogspot.com

Get it? SOUL-SURGERY.
Carol L. Skolnick knows exactly what she is doing...its beyond mere Mind-Control, Thought-Reform, that is too superficial, not deep enough.
Carol wants to do SURGERY on your SOUL. She wants to cut you open like a prime rib, and do some slicing and dicing.

Question: Carol, do you have a license for performing surgery on the human soul? From who?
Are you an accredited mental health professional? (nope)

Who wants to have someone do some Surgery on their Soul?

Also, her website is called.
ClearLifeSolutions.com

CLEAR Life Solutions...
They got that one from Scientology.
[www.xenu-directory.net]

Programmed Confusion is a real technique, they often use it in abuses of Ericksonian Hypnosis, for example, with paradoxical techniques, and things meant to confuse the conscious mind, so they can communicate with the Unconscious mind of the target.

It does appear that BK is trying to push people into Dissociation, and dissociative states.