You have mentioned a lot of things, here is a quick response. You probably have not read the entire thread, as its so long. But I have written out specific self-imaging techniques that can help and empower people to not allow people like Katie to influence them so much.
But one can't just only look at the blue sky, one has to look at the shit too, so you don't step in it.
1) Byron Katie is highly skilled at group persuasion. The worse thing one can do is ignore her, and people like her. This is not only about BK, but about the hundreds of mini Gurus like her, all doing similar patterns on people.
2) Hypnosis is a complex area, but its not so much about so-called "hypnosis" but about unconscious persuasion. For example, her School For The Work LGAT techniques, are all by the book. Most of these LGAT seminars use similar methods, if not the exact same ones. Byron Katie uses MORE than most other LGAT's, as many of them don't tell you where to sleep, or try to get into your sex life, or food, etc.
Most of them also don't try to get into your Trauma, like BK does, which is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. PTSD kills, that is a fact. Suicides in PTSD and trauma are very high, and only should be dealt with by trained professionals.
3) Straw Man: You ideas about "hypnosis" and "choice" are not accurate. This is about PERSUASION which makes people think its a Voluntary choice they thought up themself. That is the most basic element they are working with.
Persuasion is much more powerful when you think you are making the "choices" in a voluntary way. But there are profound issues at play, like for example, basic Social Pressure and group conformity. There are dozens of methods of persuasion being used, imaging, contrast, inducing pain, creating confusion...etc.
Also, no one is saying BK is reprogramming people like a computer. That is a metaphor, but she is repatterning and reforming people's thinking and self-images with her methods being done over days and weeks and months and years.
Also, its not just about selfishness and self-protection only. Like I have said, put BK in front of a group of advanced NLP style hypnotists, and they would giggle at how blatant she is, until they started to cry when they saw she was seriously doing this to soccer moms with no training in these areas. Then a few of them who are greedy, would join her in business. (Stever Robbins, for example).
People read criticism like this, and it can help them make informed choices. Just saying "she can't touch me" is actually a form of denial. She can touch people, and she knows how to do it.
People need to read the contracts, and the elements of the LGAT seminars, and study up on persuasion tactics. But even then, you can still get DUPED. Anyone who thinks they are untouchable is just being arrogant. This is tricky and slippery and dangerous stuff.
Byron Katie is quite skilled at these methods, and that has been proven over and over again. Even just in her construction of double-bind sentences, as has been shown.
99% of the people who go to these LGAT seminars have no idea of what is being done to them. This is not taught anywhere yet, so almost no one knows anything about it.
Also, its not all about Byron Katie, as many people do the same things she is doing.
So its about a general education as well.
These LGAT seminars make billions a year in many areas. The public has almost no idea of what is going on.
Some of us who have been though countless LGAT's, most of them done for research, know how powerful they are. We have seen regular people turned inside out, flipped into outright mania and psychosis, and spend thousands on a credit card, even sell their homes and go bankrupt with some deeper scheme they get lured into.
The worst thing people can do, other than denying these Gurus are anything other than Spiritual Teachers, is to ignore them. Smiling politely at Byron Katie and Werner Erhard and PSI Seminars, Landmark, Scientology, and all of the LGAT groups, is probably the worst thing one could do, other than endorse them and market them.
People need to speak up, and point out publically what they are doing to people.
Ignorance is not bliss.
On the positive side, learning about all these techniques is very interesting, and it can help in many areas of one's everyday life. Even people who sell cars and houses, and "financial instruments" are learning some of these methods these days from sales seminars and books. So its smart to know what's going on.
It can also help in keeping people safe in the future from another Guru wolf in a different brand of sheeps clothing.
Knowledge is power, and that is why they keep this knowledge hidden from their public.
We need 100x more public education than we have now. The public is almost completely unaware of what goes on in these LGAT seminars, and the advanced methods of these new age Gurus.
I think its really important, if only for her victims sake, to not empower Katie by proxy.
By attributing all this skill and deftness to her, her programs etc...you do actually imply she has some sort of 'special ability' to hypnotize people..when in reality, ANY therapeutic hypnotist will tell you people will only go so far as THEY *choose* to go when it comes to hypnosis...EVEN the simpleminded..even after prolonged induction....the will, often devoid of the conscious self's presence or intent, wins out every time.
So you cant, without prolonged suffering and causal trauma milestones preexistent, simply 'reprogram' a person. You can convince them you have for a while..but even then the natural state of the mind itself will eventually reject any premise that doesn't fulfill the minds obligations to itself.
So by repeating over and over that she can do xyz..is a false and 'katie empowering' statement..no she cant..you can choose to believe she can but in reality SHE CANT do a damn thing - it all happens inside your mind.....that is and unless YOU give her that power and permission to affect you and your thoughts.
Attempting to undermine her and instead empowering her this way, albeit with good intent sure, still leaves you buying into her dynamics, dancing to her tune.. and you end up buying into her program-of-convenience without realizing it.
Reality shows that she's a flim flam woman pure and simple, one who has engaged in a personal psychodrama and uses denial as a means to cope with her traumatic life. She thinks she has learnt something from her experience...contrary to her actions which show she hasn't. She's set herself up a nice little win-win self delusion paradox..she wins if you go..she wins if you don't...so the only way to really stop her is to ignore her entirely...just like John Pearl etc..accept that these kinds of energy and spirit predators are out there...that they come..they go..and the best you can do sometimes is just nod and smile politely..and be the one who passes by following your OWN path.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/2009 06:01AM by The Anticult.