Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and the BIG CLAIM
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 13, 2009 02:03AM
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 02:07AM by The Anticult.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 02:07AM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and the BIG CLAIM
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 13, 2009 02:05AM
~
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 02:08AM by The Anticult.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 02:08AM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and the BIG CLAIM
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 13, 2009 02:05AM
That sentence says The Work is UNDERTAKEN AT YOUR OWN RISK, and The Work is not for mental health or medical conditions.
That would actually be comical, if it were not reality.
Anyone who has read the BK books, and the suppressed BK books like "A Cry In The Desert" and "Losing The Moon" know those books are full front to back of "stories" of people's cancer being cured by being in the presence of the Godwoman, etc.
Also, their own website has said The Work can ELIMINATE DEPRESSION, TREAT PTSD, cure addictions, and the rest of it. So those are all mental health and medical healing story anecdotes.
Anyone who knows The Work knows that is what it is all about, that is all they talk about all the time.
So its all just legalistic doublespeak to cover their asses and have it both ways.
Its a simple marketing strategy.
#1) Make wild anecdotal claims in your books and websites and 3rd party blogs to promote the product, that people's cancers have been cured, depression eliminated, etc.
That is called making a BIG CLAIM. Its sales 101.
#2) Then put massive disclaimers, that no one reads, just in case anyone tries to come after you for making all those Big Claims elsewhere.
Its legalistic doublespeak. They know 99% of the people don't read those Disclaimers, they are too new agey to read that stuff.
And the people who do read it, aren't their customers, as they read that stuff!
And if a person does get hurt, and tries to come after them...see #2.
Do a poll, ask on a BK website how many have read the disclaimers...very few.
Again, very clever.
That would actually be comical, if it were not reality.
Anyone who has read the BK books, and the suppressed BK books like "A Cry In The Desert" and "Losing The Moon" know those books are full front to back of "stories" of people's cancer being cured by being in the presence of the Godwoman, etc.
Also, their own website has said The Work can ELIMINATE DEPRESSION, TREAT PTSD, cure addictions, and the rest of it. So those are all mental health and medical healing story anecdotes.
Anyone who knows The Work knows that is what it is all about, that is all they talk about all the time.
So its all just legalistic doublespeak to cover their asses and have it both ways.
Its a simple marketing strategy.
#1) Make wild anecdotal claims in your books and websites and 3rd party blogs to promote the product, that people's cancers have been cured, depression eliminated, etc.
That is called making a BIG CLAIM. Its sales 101.
#2) Then put massive disclaimers, that no one reads, just in case anyone tries to come after you for making all those Big Claims elsewhere.
Its legalistic doublespeak. They know 99% of the people don't read those Disclaimers, they are too new agey to read that stuff.
And the people who do read it, aren't their customers, as they read that stuff!
And if a person does get hurt, and tries to come after them...see #2.
Do a poll, ask on a BK website how many have read the disclaimers...very few.
Again, very clever.
Quote
corboyQuote
The Work is not a substitute for the treatment of mental health or medical conditions and is undertaken at your own risk.
This sentence seems unclear.
WHAT is undertaken 'at your own risk'?
The Work?
Or 'treatment* of mental health or medical conditions?'
*presumably by professional health care providers???
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
quackdave
()
Date: January 13, 2009 02:06AM
Interestingly, I was just doing a web search for things "missing" regarding Carol Skolnick's essay on Going to Work Naked, and found myself reading the disclaimer today. (my searching for the missing stuff was at the 'Way Back Machine' site at www.archive.org; it may prove useful to someone, but I've had no luck so far locating the essay) It's almost unbelievable how clear it is when the disclaimer is looked at even slightly critically. They want it both ways, don't they? They want to mess with your brain at YOUR peril, but not be responsible in the least. How utterly despicable!
eviltwin:
It appears you and I benefited greatly from our searching on the web to investigate our potential involvement with Byron Katie International and The Work of Byron Katie. I also had recently purchased a book (A Thousand Names for Joy) and was beginning to use the four questions, which seemed benign at first glance. I sure am glad this forum exists! Who knows how long (and how deeply) I might have gotten involved had I not done the research. I like the way you described your experience. It's very clear and insightful. It will likely help untold numbers of people for a long time to come, if they have the foresight to do the searching.
qd
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 02:29AM by quackdave.
eviltwin:
It appears you and I benefited greatly from our searching on the web to investigate our potential involvement with Byron Katie International and The Work of Byron Katie. I also had recently purchased a book (A Thousand Names for Joy) and was beginning to use the four questions, which seemed benign at first glance. I sure am glad this forum exists! Who knows how long (and how deeply) I might have gotten involved had I not done the research. I like the way you described your experience. It's very clear and insightful. It will likely help untold numbers of people for a long time to come, if they have the foresight to do the searching.
qd
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 02:29AM by quackdave.
Byron Katie (the Work) and AA 12 Step program recruiting
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 13, 2009 02:26AM
by the way, in the banned, burned, suppressed, censored book on Byron Katie called
"A Cry In the Desert",
they talk a lot about how Byron Katie used to go to many AA 12 Step meetings, for a long period of time. One assumes after her mental breakdown, (which probably did happen), she may have gone into that alcoholic treatment center "halfway house", where Byron Katie was taught meditation by her "teachers", as stated in A Cry In The Desert. (notice how that story was modified in later books).
One assumes they also did AA 12 Steps in there, and also a Course In Miracles, which she also studied, along with many other things like that.
In that same book (A Cry In The Desert), they say Byron Katie also went to many AA meetings to aggressively pitch her belief system to people. So one assumes that AA 12 Step meetings are crawling with BK people. Beware.
Also, notice how Byron Katie claims she was an alcoholic, and the Milton Erickson story above about the cactus was a hypnotic story written for an alcoholic by Dr. Erickson?
That is another reason why that book was banned, burnt, suppressed and censored.
_____________________________________________
[www.nyseph.org]
"CACTI" by Dr. Milton Erickson (EXCERPT)
Usually I send alcoholic patients to AA because AA can do a better job than I can do.
...
I said, "All right, you want me to do something about it---with that history. Now, the thing I am going to suggest to you won't seem the right thing. You go out to the Botanical Gardens. You look at all the cacti there and marvel at cacti that can survive three years without water, without rain. And do a lot of thinking."
...
Now, that was a nice way to cure an alcoholic. Get him to respect cacti that survive three years without rain.
________________________________
"A Cry In the Desert",
they talk a lot about how Byron Katie used to go to many AA 12 Step meetings, for a long period of time. One assumes after her mental breakdown, (which probably did happen), she may have gone into that alcoholic treatment center "halfway house", where Byron Katie was taught meditation by her "teachers", as stated in A Cry In The Desert. (notice how that story was modified in later books).
One assumes they also did AA 12 Steps in there, and also a Course In Miracles, which she also studied, along with many other things like that.
In that same book (A Cry In The Desert), they say Byron Katie also went to many AA meetings to aggressively pitch her belief system to people. So one assumes that AA 12 Step meetings are crawling with BK people. Beware.
Also, notice how Byron Katie claims she was an alcoholic, and the Milton Erickson story above about the cactus was a hypnotic story written for an alcoholic by Dr. Erickson?
That is another reason why that book was banned, burnt, suppressed and censored.
_____________________________________________
[www.nyseph.org]
"CACTI" by Dr. Milton Erickson (EXCERPT)
Usually I send alcoholic patients to AA because AA can do a better job than I can do.
...
I said, "All right, you want me to do something about it---with that history. Now, the thing I am going to suggest to you won't seem the right thing. You go out to the Botanical Gardens. You look at all the cacti there and marvel at cacti that can survive three years without water, without rain. And do a lot of thinking."
...
Now, that was a nice way to cure an alcoholic. Get him to respect cacti that survive three years without rain.
________________________________
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: January 13, 2009 03:51AM
12 step groups are like sea faring ships. Theyre OK
The problem is barnacles and borer worms that hitch onto the ship's hull.
Eventually, this can drag the ship and borer worms can cause water to leak in and the ship to founder.
Unless the ship is brought periodically into dry dock and scraped, parasitic damage to the hull can accumulate.
By itself, 12 step has a lot of time tested and useful tools. And there are 12 step groups for atheists. At every one I have attended, definition of higher or healing power is up to the person.
But there is a mixed bag of tools other than recommended 12 step materal that gets informally passed around.
It ranges from the excellent to the icky.
In early recovery, someone may be unable to tell the difference.
A 12 step veteran told me of a pal who tried to stabilize his recovery by finding a spiritual practice path...and got involved with Fellowship of Friends (aka Renaissance.Robert Burton)--with a lot of info on the RR.com groups archive list.
He phoned my friend later, after being kicked out of FOF. He was broke, homeless and was in jail.
She went to bail him out.
12 step started as a clean pool of water.
Problem is, its based on trust and an honor code.
Someone who is outside of 12 step can fish in that 12 pool, and pull vulnerable fish out of that pool.
And because 12 step the groups try to maintain group harmony there is reluctance to speak up concerning this troubling issue, for fear of triggering an atmosphere of discord that will wreck the harmony needed for recovery.
Thus this goes undiscussed except in troubled conversations among buddies after the meetings.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 03:55AM by corboy.
The problem is barnacles and borer worms that hitch onto the ship's hull.
Eventually, this can drag the ship and borer worms can cause water to leak in and the ship to founder.
Unless the ship is brought periodically into dry dock and scraped, parasitic damage to the hull can accumulate.
By itself, 12 step has a lot of time tested and useful tools. And there are 12 step groups for atheists. At every one I have attended, definition of higher or healing power is up to the person.
But there is a mixed bag of tools other than recommended 12 step materal that gets informally passed around.
It ranges from the excellent to the icky.
In early recovery, someone may be unable to tell the difference.
A 12 step veteran told me of a pal who tried to stabilize his recovery by finding a spiritual practice path...and got involved with Fellowship of Friends (aka Renaissance.Robert Burton)--with a lot of info on the RR.com groups archive list.
He phoned my friend later, after being kicked out of FOF. He was broke, homeless and was in jail.
She went to bail him out.
12 step started as a clean pool of water.
Problem is, its based on trust and an honor code.
Someone who is outside of 12 step can fish in that 12 pool, and pull vulnerable fish out of that pool.
And because 12 step the groups try to maintain group harmony there is reluctance to speak up concerning this troubling issue, for fear of triggering an atmosphere of discord that will wreck the harmony needed for recovery.
Thus this goes undiscussed except in troubled conversations among buddies after the meetings.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 03:55AM by corboy.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Christin Lore Weber, Altar Music
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: January 13, 2009 09:23AM
The writer Christin Lore Weber wrote that book A Cry In The Desert about Byron Katie in 1996.
She also wrote "Altar Music" in 2000. There is a review at Salon about the book. (below)
Christin Lore Weber is a former nun, and its interesting after her extreme promotion and outrageous over-idealization of Byron Katie in 1996, that in 2000 she wrote what appears to be a quite dark and ugly novel about life in a convent.
There seems to be not a word written about Byron Katie since then by Christin, maybe due to a non-disclosure clause, maybe something else, maybe she got completely used, abused and tattooed. She ends the Desert book by saying the book has just begun....whoops, that was the last word.
Maybe Christin could write a new "novel" about a new age "female Guru" who is able to persuade people to write books about her the precise way she wants them to, while making them think it was all their idea?
This female Guru, could be a new age savior, worshipped by thousands, travelling the world, able to be the puppet-master, all the while perfectly play-acting the role of a Savant.
As a matter of fact, this novel could make a great movie, maybe starring Meryl Streep. She could play it perfectly, posing, preening, seducing, spacing-out, chastizing the flock, Love-Bombing in bathrooms, cocking her head, lying her ass off in a totally convicing way, abusing her inner circle backstage, demanding and receiving massive gifts, being the ruthless CEO of a large corporation while acting like an innocent savant onstage...the movie could even be done in a way that is very ambiguous, so you never really know for certain what the hell is really going on.
ALTAR MUSIC BY CHRISTIN LORE WEBER
[An ex-sister's tale of sexually confused priests and predatory nuns.]
[archive.salon.com]
"Not all the denizens of "Altar Music" are wife beaters, child molesters or predatory priests and nuns. There have to be some characters, after all, to serve as prey...
While nobody in his right mind still believes in the Julie Andrews brand of sunny convent life, the convent depicted in "Altar Music" is so grim it makes Jane Eyre's orphanage look like a Carnival cruise ship. Stripped of the comforts of family and friends, deprived of her music, Elise loses her identity and nearly her mind as well. There's suicide, sexual and physical abuse and the nearly constant suffocation of the most natural human impulses. Being a bride of Christ is no heaven on earth.
Writing with the vehemence of someone convinced she's bringing the truth to light for the first time, Weber displays a baffling naive".
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 09:37AM by The Anticult.
She also wrote "Altar Music" in 2000. There is a review at Salon about the book. (below)
Christin Lore Weber is a former nun, and its interesting after her extreme promotion and outrageous over-idealization of Byron Katie in 1996, that in 2000 she wrote what appears to be a quite dark and ugly novel about life in a convent.
There seems to be not a word written about Byron Katie since then by Christin, maybe due to a non-disclosure clause, maybe something else, maybe she got completely used, abused and tattooed. She ends the Desert book by saying the book has just begun....whoops, that was the last word.
Maybe Christin could write a new "novel" about a new age "female Guru" who is able to persuade people to write books about her the precise way she wants them to, while making them think it was all their idea?
This female Guru, could be a new age savior, worshipped by thousands, travelling the world, able to be the puppet-master, all the while perfectly play-acting the role of a Savant.
As a matter of fact, this novel could make a great movie, maybe starring Meryl Streep. She could play it perfectly, posing, preening, seducing, spacing-out, chastizing the flock, Love-Bombing in bathrooms, cocking her head, lying her ass off in a totally convicing way, abusing her inner circle backstage, demanding and receiving massive gifts, being the ruthless CEO of a large corporation while acting like an innocent savant onstage...the movie could even be done in a way that is very ambiguous, so you never really know for certain what the hell is really going on.
ALTAR MUSIC BY CHRISTIN LORE WEBER
[An ex-sister's tale of sexually confused priests and predatory nuns.]
[archive.salon.com]
"Not all the denizens of "Altar Music" are wife beaters, child molesters or predatory priests and nuns. There have to be some characters, after all, to serve as prey...
While nobody in his right mind still believes in the Julie Andrews brand of sunny convent life, the convent depicted in "Altar Music" is so grim it makes Jane Eyre's orphanage look like a Carnival cruise ship. Stripped of the comforts of family and friends, deprived of her music, Elise loses her identity and nearly her mind as well. There's suicide, sexual and physical abuse and the nearly constant suffocation of the most natural human impulses. Being a bride of Christ is no heaven on earth.
Writing with the vehemence of someone convinced she's bringing the truth to light for the first time, Weber displays a baffling naive".
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2009 09:37AM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
quackdave
()
Date: January 16, 2009 04:22AM
You know, Anticult, that's a great idea! Maybe she's ready to do some talking about her experience, but in a format that stays kind of "under the radar" in a way that protects her from recrimination. Her silence, for all this time, might indicate that involvement with Byron Katie's Organization wasn't the stellar experience she first thought it would be. One can only hope.
Meanwhile, I believe that the longer the Byron Katie Organization is in operation, the more defectors there will be. Just on this thread alone, I have seen escapees who were just getting involved (like myself), those who were involved and got free just in the nick of time, and some who were involved for long enough to have their minds and their pocket books totally altered! There's Hope for all of us, including Ms. Lore Weber.
qd
Meanwhile, I believe that the longer the Byron Katie Organization is in operation, the more defectors there will be. Just on this thread alone, I have seen escapees who were just getting involved (like myself), those who were involved and got free just in the nick of time, and some who were involved for long enough to have their minds and their pocket books totally altered! There's Hope for all of us, including Ms. Lore Weber.
qd
Re: Going to Work Naked: My Journey to Byron Katie, Carol L. Skolnick
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: January 16, 2009 04:48AM
I just found the article posted on a Scientology news blog:Quote
The Anticult
Did anyone find access to the primary article about Byron Katie by Carol Skolnick called...
Going to Work Naked: My Journey to Byron Katie
by Carol L. Skolnick
As mentioned, it appears to have been pulled offline. Maybe someone will come across it on some website, or an a message board, newsgroup, blog, or somewhere? If anyone does come across a link, maybe they can post the link here so it can be referenced?
[[url=http://anotherlookatscientology2.blogspot.com/2009/01/going-to-work-naked.html]Going To Work Naked[/url]]
Note: it's posted in 5 parts.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: January 16, 2009 06:32AM
Nice work helpme :)
She ran but couldn't hide.
She ran but couldn't hide.
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