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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Kim Rosen
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 07, 2008 04:54AM

yikes, that's a new one, combining poetry performance with LGAT seminars.
Kim Rosen looks pretty slick, a budding Byron Katie in the making.

What is interesting is that Advanced Hypnosis is really a form of poetry, in a sense.
The most advanced hypnosis is invisible to the subject, and just sounds like a "Story" or nonsense phrases.
They use the phrase Artfully Vague in advanced hypnosis, which is similar to poetry, or some song lyrics, etc.

But clearly, good poetry is generally about self-honesty.
Whereas the LGAT style of hypno-sales is about trickery, and selling people something, persuading.
But they do overlap.

Assertiveness:
Yes, of course they want to block assertiveness in their subjects! She ain't gonna sell many LGAT seminars to people calling her on her bullshit.
You see, its OK for Byron Katie and Kim Rosen to be forceful and controlling and dominant.
They fear assertiveness more than anything else, as when you are assertive, then they are out of business.



Quote
JB
As long as we're collecting names of people who are liberally spreading Byron Katie crapola around I'd like to throw this link out for addition to the long list previously posted.

[www.kimrosen.net]

I attended a weekend workshop she facilitated. Basically it was an LGAT type sampler with the usual hypnotic regression to childhood "splits" as the culmination of a long weekend of being prompted to dish out secrets. There was bioenergetic work, repackaged as coreeneregetic work, repackaged again as pathwork. There was a big chunk of Byron Katie turnaround bullshit.

One especially annoying portion of self disclosure: when prompted to share a difficult experience in recent past, the facilitator asserts that any reaction you may have to a toxic personality - fight, flight, freezing in place - is a sign of immaturity. Even asserting yourself is wrong. What works is some sort of BK like "surrender". Sheesh.

...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2008 04:56AM by The Anticult.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: ON2 LF ()
Date: August 07, 2008 07:14AM

Quote
corboy
Quote:corboy
I want to meet that cockroach.

ON2LF wrote:

LOL! I second that..I'm beginning to think, maybe that bug is worth getting acquainted with!

Corboy again:

A one inch cockroach ran up into my pants leg twice, not once, twice.

And in the nastiest men's bathroom in town.

To think that I coulda used this as evidence of being enlightened and gotten rich and famous.

Well, its my responsiblity that this didnt happen.

Let the record reflect, that Corboy will take responsibility for not seizing fortune by the forelock.

In that moment, friends, I failed to make my own reality.

I had my chance. I blew it. Its all my fault.

I failed to nail down the intellectual property on that episode back in 1988 when that bug got into my pants, not once, but twice.

And why did I fail to see this as intellectual property? Why did I fail to understand that I needed to hire a lawyer and a press agent?

Intellectual property is not 'in the moment'. Intellectual property is
based on the future risk of someone stealing your artistic/intellectual
output unless you get it on legal record that you produced it first!

One needs to activate ego, discursive thinking to do that. To even think,
'I need a lawyer for this.'

In that moment you aint in the moment. Thinking 'How do I market
this' is mental activity incompatible with in the moment.

You're interested in hanging on to what is yours and getting MORE of it.

That means you're craving something. The Buddhist folks call that 'afflictive emotion', aka 'dukkha' aka SUFFERING.

You suffer when you have something and dont want to lose it, or you have something and you want more of it--as in more customers, more converts.

Because...to think of my Roach Encounter as a marketable, potentially lucrative story that someone else might want to replicate, I would have had to think about future possiblities, such as someone else, in the future, stealing that story from me.

But, I wasnt thinking about the future. I was there in the moment, shaking that bug out of my jeans, feeling disgusted and amused.

I didnt have room in that present moment to think, 'This is a good story. Lets market it. Gotta find a lawyer.'

To me, it was just a funny, disgusting story. And only that. Not intellectual property. Just a funny, disgusting moment, dancing on one foot, grabbing
my other thigh, violently shaking my roach inhabited pants leg, hoping
I'd not fall onto that filthy bathroom floor.

And I had to stay in the moment so I could finish mopping that floor on time.

Gotta go clean my toilet now. Nighty night.



I get the creeps thinking of what must have been a really pissed off cockroach, and the bathroom..sounds like the bathroom alone should have been sufficient to cause an out of body experience.
Maybe you really did miss the ship there...not only did that big cockroach come at you twice, but it attacked you in the nastiest men's bathroom in town..ew! You could've been the wealthiest, most influential self-help guru out there today corboy, had you been thinking instead of being in the moment..heck, people like werner and BK would be plagiarizing your books, and re-packaging your teachings into self-help cd's, to sell as their own 'enlightenment'. Tsk tsk...only kidding of course!



When a cockroach allegedly strolled over BK once, she wasn't standing in no-man's land with what must have been the mop from hell in her hands, and she didn't have a guy follow her around afterward with the bug in a jar, calling it their love child! That guy alone...Imagine what BK would do with an experience like that.


As reality would have it though..you just couldn't have been in the moment if you had had the where-with-all to grab the yellow pages and find a lawyer and a press agent. It takes a scary type of person to think the way the gurus of the day seem to, meaning BK, ET, and/or Werner. They don't even see their habitual self-contradictions..they are literally unable to see the self obsessed people they are. If they say it, or think it then its true..that is ego with a pathological twist.

I'd hate to see to see what ET or BK would be teaching if they had anger management issues. Luckily, one just has an ego to out weigh the egos of at least a thousand people combined, and the other is just a coward when it comes to suffering.. suffering without $$ that is. These people really make cockroaches look like lady bugs.. (the ones that aren't crawling up a persons leg that is). I might be overestimating the gurus' bottom feeding natures, but somehow I doubt it.


Why is the battle for the mind so easy for people like Byron Katie or Tolle to win, and so incredibly difficult a battle for those on the honest side of the fence?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2008 07:30AM by ON2 LF.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) vs Acceptance
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 07, 2008 11:00AM

one other major difference between real CBT and Byron Katie, is how to deal with things in life we don't like, or even despise.
Byron Katie tries to tell people its all just reality, and goes as far as to say even horrible things are wonderful. That is how she gets to the point of saying Nazi war criminals burning babies alive are doing The Work of Byron Katies "God". (that should tell you all you need to know right there).

But real CBT doesn't say anything like that. Even in REBT its more about reasonable Acceptance.
So in everyday life, there are many things we might not like, but learn to ACCEPT.
Also, Self-Acceptance, which is very powerful.

Dr. Aaron Beck wrote a book called Prisoners Of Hate, which explores how to use CBT to deal with those types of issues in a reasoned way.

But Byron Katie oversimplifies everything in life with her nutty belief systems.
But there is always a hidden agenda. For example, when Byron Katie talks about "war" its not about real war, its about the war for your mind, and this is why she coaches people to be like a vase of flowers, passive and accepting, and this allows Byron Katie to move into your mind.
I know for people who are new to this, it seems hard to grasp, but once you have seen this exact type of thing many times from different people, its quite obvious and common.
(Dr. Milton Erickson talked about cactus plants a lot, and that became a symbol for the person. But he did it in a way that helped people).

Its all about metaphorical waking hypnotic stories using language and images.

There is a video of Byron Katie I have not watched, but have seen advertised a lot. Its about some guy who is "uptight about money issues". I chuckled when I saw that, as you know what THAT video is going to be REALLY about. Opening up your wallet to the Roach-lady, that's what.

So I'll check out that video at some point, but I literally cannot stand Byron Katies voice anymore at this point, its like verbal waterboarding.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) vs Acceptance
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: August 07, 2008 07:52PM

Quote
The Anticult
There is a video of Byron Katie I have not watched, but have seen advertised a lot. Its about some guy who is "uptight about money issues". I chuckled when I saw that, as you know what THAT video is going to be REALLY about. Opening up your wallet to the Roach-lady, that's what.

So I'll check out that video at some point, but I literally cannot stand Byron Katies voice anymore at this point, its like verbal waterboarding.
I saw that video. Back when I was a believer, I judged that guy as not "getting it." Now I applaud him for being as resistant as he was - that's healthy.

I can't stand to listen to BK's voice anymore either. I can't even stand to look at her.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: August 07, 2008 07:53PM

Quote
JB
As long as we're collecting names of people who are liberally spreading Byron Katie crapola around I'd like to throw this link out for addition to the long list previously posted.

[www.kimrosen.net]
Oy vay, this one really is a Piece of "Work"!

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: August 07, 2008 08:02PM

Quote
solea13
helpme2times - I am also reading this book and enjoying its sane, logical approach very much.
Yay Dr. Burns!

FYI, I've also gotten hold of another of David Burns' books. It's about relationships and is entlted, "Intimate Connections". Great stuff and very practical.

Imo the Burns info is excellent for counteracting a culty mindset.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: August 07, 2008 10:07PM

Meditation Upon a Vase of Flowers


Quote
The Anticult
she coaches people to be like a vase of flowers, passive and accepting, and this allows Byron Katie to move into your mind.

Lets look at what happens with 'a vase of flowers.'

The flowers are cut off from their roots before being inserted into that
vase and water.

Once in the vase, the flowers can last only a certain time before they turn
brown and wilt. Some last and look pretty longer than others.

Once a flower in that vase no longer looks pretty, it is removed and thrown in the trash and replaced by another flower that looks pretty but has been recently cut off from its roots.

The flower arrangement will continue to look the same or can even grow in size but only because at night the Great Interior Decorator removes and trashes the withering older flowers and replaces these with freshly cut flowers.

The withering flowers go to the trash or the compost heap-- which is kept out of sight.

The flowers in the vase do not know they've been cut off at their roots. They're proud to be in the pretty vase.

The flowers in the vase sing the praises of the Great Interior Decorator.

The flowers in the vase urge other flowers, living out doors, rooted in the ground, to let themselves be collected and cut off at the roots by the Great Interior Decorator.

Join us in the Vase! Join us in the Vase! You will fall in love with the Great Interior Decorator!

End of meditation.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Money
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: August 07, 2008 11:28PM

Quote
The Anticult
There is a video of Byron Katie I have not watched, but have seen advertised a lot. Its about some guy who is "uptight about money issues". I chuckled when I saw that, as you know what THAT video is going to be REALLY about. Opening up your wallet to the Roach-lady, that's what.

So I'll check out that video at some point, but I literally cannot stand Byron Katies voice anymore at this point, its like verbal waterboarding.
I watched the video again, Byron Katie re Money, and wooo, I can totally see through her now. Thank goodness.

Here's one example of her bizarre thinking:

"Money is like air. It's everywhere. There's nothing you can do to not to have it. And if I don't have it, it's because I don't need it."

Sooo, there's nothing you can do not to have money. Is that true? Of course not! I'll bet there are any number of poor and struggling people who if they heard that would have to hold themselves back from punching her lights out.

I love the guy in the video. He is so down to earth, so real. Now that's "reality" to me. She's what's fake. And Anticult, you are right. She most certainly is setting people up to de-value money and then they will fork it over for more and more of the work.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: August 07, 2008 11:28PM

Quote
corboy
Meditation Upon a Vase of Flowers

Quote
The Anticult
she coaches people to be like a vase of flowers, passive and accepting, and this allows Byron Katie to move into your mind.

Lets look at what happens with 'a vase of flowers.'

The flowers are cut off from their roots before being inserted into that
vase and water.

Once in the vase, the flowers can last only a certain time before they turn
brown and wilt. Some last and look pretty longer than others.

Once a flower in that vase no longer looks pretty, it is removed and thrown in the trash and replaced by another flower that looks pretty but has been recently cut off from its roots.

The flower arrangement will continue to look the same or can even grow in size but only because at night the Great Interior Decorator removes and trashes the withering older flowers and replaces these with freshly cut flowers.

The withering flowers go to the trash or the compost heap-- which is kept out of sight.

The flowers in the vase do not know they've been cut off at their roots. They're proud to be in the pretty vase.

The flowers in the vase sing the praises of the Great Interior Decorator.

The flowers in the vase urge other flowers, living out doors, rooted in the ground, to let themselves be collected and cut off at the roots by the Great Interior Decorator.

Join us in the Vase! Join us in the Vase! You will fall in love with the Great Interior Decorator!

End of meditation.
That was great, C. :-)

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Money
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: August 08, 2008 12:49AM

again, I have not yet watched the video, but I will.
But how this stuff works is that when the hypnotist-salesman (Byron Katie) is talking about "money issues", and releasing the video to the public, its not about the guy she is talking to. The guy in the video becomes a symbol in our own mind of our of own skeptical resistance to Byron Katie, and especially Byron Katies idea that you should hand $10,000 to her, or $200,000 in "gifts".
So all these people in her video YouTube infomercials becoime projections in people's minds.
So she is not even really working on this guy, she is working on all those people watching the video, who have doubts about her.

I laughed when I saw something like "here's how Byron Katie talks to an uptight guy who's having money issues" which comes up in Google searches very high in the list.
The key word is "uptight".
That means your wallet is closed and up-tight in your pocket, and that's no good for the LGAT people. So they need to losen you up.
They all do it.

What they want to do is trigger a type of manic state in people, and in that state, some people will drop $100,000, some people will spend everything they have. Casinos know this too, and some evangelists.

Byron Katie could release the videos of converts handing over a fortune to her, but that won't work on skeptics. That is why she releases and promotes a video of her working with some guy who is a skeptic, this is to work on the skeptical part of your mind.

Its exactly the same as when she talks about her "kids fighting" and that she calmed them by just being in the room, and they then listened to her. She is inserting herself into your own "struggle" in your mind over Byron Katie, and implanting the suggestion that she will calm down your struggle against her and surrender.

Again, its very transparent, when you look at every single "Story" Byron Katie tells, as a type of Induction with a purpose and a message to your unconscious, which is what they are.
If people knew this, it would not work as well, but then she would just change her methods.



Quote
helpme2times
Quote
The Anticult
There is a video of Byron Katie I have not watched, but have seen advertised a lot. Its about some guy who is "uptight about money issues". I chuckled when I saw that, as you know what THAT video is going to be REALLY about. Opening up your wallet to the Roach-lady, that's what.

So I'll check out that video at some point, but I literally cannot stand Byron Katies voice anymore at this point, its like verbal waterboarding.
I watched the video again, Byron Katie re Money, and wooo, I can totally see through her now. Thank goodness.

Here's one example of her bizarre thinking:

"Money is like air. It's everywhere. There's nothing you can do to not to have it. And if I don't have it, it's because I don't need it."

Sooo, there's nothing you can do not to have money. Is that true? Of course not! I'll bet there are any number of poor and struggling people who if they heard that would have to hold themselves back from punching her lights out.

I love the guy in the video. He is so down to earth, so real. Now that's "reality" to me. She's what's fake. And Anticult, you are right. She most certainly is setting people up to de-value money and then they will fork it over for more and more of the work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2008 12:57AM by The Anticult.

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