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And stay off the phone with them, as stated. There are other threads here showing their phone techniques.

Any time you see an ad, dont even read the content. I will explain why, in a moment.

Instead, find the phone number and plug it into Google and see what that phone number is attached to.

You will be surprised.

Now here is why I advise reading the phone number first, and not reading the content first.



A classic ad will consist of a series of questions.

Most normal persons will answer 'Yes' 'Yes' 'Yes' 'Yes' 'Yes'

That is an example of a trance induction 'yes set' and will put you into a light trance.

Please dont kid yourself that you are too smart or have a Ph.D or MD and wont fall for it.

Trance induction bypasses the part of us that gets the degrees and generates IQ scores.

If you dont go to Google and check the telephone number, and instead, read the questions, go yes, yes yes, and actually phone the ad, you're already on toast.

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luckychrm
[This PDF was authored by Lisa Biskup who is ringing a bell as a BKI staffer, but I haven't the time to research that at this moment.]

I coincidentally ran across the name today as the author of a 5 star review of a Byron Katie/The Work trained possibly fraudulent mental health provider's book in Washington State. I'm not claiming guilt by association, just noting the associations.

I'm extremely concerned about the potential negative consequences of using The Work as a parenting guide and using The Work with children. I think that State Mental Health boards and attorney generals need to hear about this from people who clearly see the danger. I'm working on how to proceed with addressing these concerns in a balanced way. I'm also reading through these Byron Katie, Stephen Mitchel, The Work, Byron Katie International, Institute for The Work threads slowly but surely.

What is the process for getting some of this information accumulated into an article in the rickrosss.com archive?

To all who have replied a BIG THANKS (Anticult/corboy/walter1963).....I feel there is so much to learn and so little time :-)...I wish I knew about this site before I took a weekend and then week long seminar at The Option Institute years ago...I , luckily, did not spend "too much money" and did not have a nervous breakdown/psychotic episode but I could see how they can get addictive...Actually OI is not set-up like Landmark/EST in terms of marathon sessions and confrontational tactics but there is the upsell at the end of the course and also they cover every known "ailment" one could have....So I think the damage is financial and also the continuation of chasing the mythical state of "forever happy"....I think part of the allure too is getting away to somewhere away from work/family/city life/etc and relaxing while trying to "grow"....I feel compassion for those who lost so much more money and did have psychotic breaks....People like the Anticult and corboy are really a blessing....I think many people find this website AFTER they have been through some bad experience though....Finally to Anticult, the Tony Robbins mastery of persuasion/influence, is that only on audio?....I use public computers (library) and have been not been able to download the audio files....Perhaps there is a manual also....I personally dont think I will be sucked into a LGAT seminar by listening but thanks to all for the warnings....I hope people are able to find this information and not waste time or money on these DVDs/books/seminars....I think it would be a good idea to have a thread started that share the CBT (cognitive behavior therapy) techniques that people found useful too....Perhaps in the Recovery forum?....THANKS AGIAN

To Anticult....Please feel free to PM me with the link to the old manual that explains how these slaesmen/women sharks manipulate people to BUY NOW....Also will the Byron katie book show how they go about to find one's pain/wound and then what they do to magnify it? (do all LGATs do the same things)....Naively, I believed that people in the "healing" profession were about helping people get better while trying to earn a living....I am struggling with how the BK/James Ray/EST people are "different' in terms of motivation from the psychiatrists/psychologists that push disorders and pills onto people for money....At least with CBT it is supposed to be short-term and many things one can do on their own....There are plenty of horror stories of hospitals, doctors, nurses etc who abused their power and did more harm than good to people.....but that might need to be a seperate thread :-)

In terms of the legal contracts they force people to sign before attending a LGAT seminar.
Of course, VERBALLY they say the opposite to the contract.
So a fun thing to do, is to turn the tables.

Write down what they say, and cross out the other parts of the contract.
Have them sit down, and explain every clause in the contract, and if they discount a part, cross it out.

Then tell them you are going to take the contract to your attorney, and then have it notarized with the changes they have said verbally. Get their full legal name, and tell them you will need their signature in the presence of a witness.

You will never hear from that LGAT again.
They want easy targets. They want to hold all the power over you, and will avoid anyone with any knowledge of how the system really works.
Unfortunately, they prey on people who will sign a massive 5-10 page releases, without reading it.

Here is a link about the pain/pleasure method used by Tony Robbins and associates.....
www.scribd.com/doc/30556478/Anthony-Tony-Robbins-The-Power-to-Influence#open_download

I believe this applicable to the methods BK uses also

www.salespractice.com/forums/t-942.html
There are numerous articles on sales techniques and perhaps by becoming aware of them we all become less vulnerable to buying stuff we really dont need

Thanks to Anticult for making me aware of these techniques.....I NAIVELY believed that people only buy something because they want it and you could never be SOLD something against your WILL !!!!!!!!........

Here is a post from TAC that is important--the actual difference between BK and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy

(this is a small quote from a longer post--please read

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CT is about adjusting to actual reality, based on objective EVIDENCE.

[www.nacbt.org]

Byron Katie has tried to link herself to CT, as CT has been proven to help people in many studies.
CT and the BK work are actually in direct opposition, its somewhat like saying that Astrology and Astronomy are related, as they both talk about planets. The Work is like Astrology.
Whereas CT, has been very carefully studies and refined for decades, with hundreds of actual studies to refine it.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Another page of our 'golden oldie' classics here--this one deals with love bombing

[forum.culteducation.com]

A lot of states in the US are short on money, so that means state regulatory agencies may have a big backlog.

The squeaky wheel will get the grease so you may have to keep pressurizing the relevant state regulatory agency.

One state has been putting its workers on Friday furloughs.

So you will have to be pesistant, courteous enough to have your name and project garner pleasant associations, and present a lot of quality evidence.

Its not appropriate to attempt to make any comparison between registered psychologists and licensed MD's and psychiatrists, and New Wage "spiritual" con-artist salesmen like Byron Katie / James Ray/ Werner Erhard EST.
That is all those guys are advanced SALESMEN at best, and very manipulative cultish leaders, that have destroyed many lives to turn themselves into multimillionaires. They have no training, education, or licensing, its just about making millions.


For example, actual CBT has had hundreds of scientific studies done, and papers published in peer-reviewed journals, that show it can really work for people.
Of course there are bad apples in any field and quacks and crooks, and people have to be skeptical and cautious.



To find the old sales manual, just add the term PDF to it.



PDF Robbins - The Power To Influence (Sales Mastery)- Backtrack Notes

Someone has come up with a link from a Werner Erhard devotee, saying that Byron Katie was an EST/Landmark trainer.


1976 Book: EST Making Life Work
by Vikki Brock
[coachingcommons.org] QUOTE: "Byron Katie was also a former seminar leader."


This has been raised before.


Byron Katie- EST - Landmark Forum - PSI Seminars - The Work -1986 [forum.culteducation.com]

Byron Katie (The Work) - Landmark/Forum/EST connection? [forum.culteducation.com]

Its very obvious that Byron Katie attended the EST (Erhard Seminars Training) [skepdic.com] and/or early Landmark(1985) [skepdic.com] which were "it" back in the 1970's and early 1980's, and then modified it, as well as combining it with other techniques.
Note how the official fictional Byron Katie Story(TM) timeline has her saying she was "awakened" by a magical cockroach in 1986.

Every single New Wage LGAT seminar leader, like Byron Katie, learns the ropes by first attending every other LGAT seminar, and quickly realizing how much money the Werner Erhard's are making. They then become "trainers" and work their way up, and eventually strike out on their own, to be their own boss, and start selling their own Story.
Werner Erhard told his fiction Story of becoming awakened on a bridge, Byron Katie Story by a filthy cockroach, Eckhart Tolle park bench Story, etc.
Standard stuff.

Ya gots to have a STORY to sell to the peoples!
Even the marketers of pop-stars know that.
A good Story $ells.