Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: JayJoseph ()
Date: October 08, 2010 10:45PM

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread.....I have learned so much and appreciate it....Personally my attraction to LGATs is diminshing.....What I would like to know is what are the books that reveal advanced sales techniques....And books on persuasion......Specifically the process(es) of increasing pain and then offering solutions to increase pleasure....The anticult mentioned these books could be found in a library.....When I did a search on sales techniques in my local library there were books by Brian Tracy about how to increase selling but they did not contain the information I was looking for..........Also, does anyone have links to the training manuals that LGATs use to find an individuals pain, increase it, and then offer solutions ?....I believe this strategy was mentioned in this thread about Byron katie (among others) doing this process to people......Thanks

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University Mental Health Director Uses The Work In Practice?
Posted by: luckychrm ()
Date: October 10, 2010 08:12AM

Thank you for having already shared this paper via the forum. I came across it about two weeks ago and have been formulating a response for publication, although I haven't determined the appropriate venue(s) yet.

Anil Coumar is a BKI certified facilitator of The Work and also the Director of the Student Mental Health Center at the University of Washington (UW). Neither his paper (attached to this reply) nor his biography on the UW Seattle website mention this association, which to a lay-folk like myself looks like a potential conflict of interest.

As mentioned, this paper is not a scholarly analysis of the effectiveness of The Work, but it does demonstrate that both Coumar and Hildago (not listed on The Work's facilitator website, so should he even be doing The Work with clients, according to the BKI system?) are willing to implement this untested form of conflict/stress resolution through self-inquiry on vulnerable college students, probably at the State's expense.

Two quotes stand out to me as red flags regarding the validity of the argument that Coumar and Hildalgo supply as ~evidence~ of The Work's effectiveness:

1. "I was delightfully mystified by the total absence of a sense of shame about having been so inconsiderate of Eli for the previous 17 years." (Hidalgo)

So Hidalgo, a licensed mental health provider, has been treating his step-son (a dependent/vulnerable individual who likely had attachment challenges coming into his relationship with Hidalgo) poorly for 17 years, but doing The Work once relieved him (Hidalgo) of his sense of shame over the matter. It sounds like Hidalgo's reduced shame was evidence that The Work was effective for him, and feeling shame less often would certainly motivate him to use The Work more often. Hopefully it would also motivate him to treat his step-son better, and with his background in mental health I'm surprised that it took a Byron Katie moment for this to become clear to him. I don't trust a licensed mental health provider who mistreats his vulnerable child to give me anecdotal evidence of how effective his unscientific implementation of The Work is.

2. "When “The Work” doesn’t work
In our experience “The Work” always relieves or eliminates painful affects, and it
works for any problem, simply because all suffering is created by our thoughts.

However, there are times when a person doesn’t want to “do ‘The Work’”. There
seem to be two primary and opposing motives in Mind – to be right and to know
what is true. “The Work” is most effective when we do it for the love of truth. When
we are more invested in being right than in knowing what is true, the four questions
can feel aversive."

First of all, for those uninitiated with Byron Katie, BKI, and The Work, these aren't even Coumar & Hildago's thoughts, they are lengthy nearly direct quotes from BKI published works, presumably authored by Byron Katie and/or Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchel.

Secondly, if The Work "always relieves or eliminates painful affects" there would be a huge amount of scientific study aimed at incorporating it as a recognized treatment by the American Psychology Association. There are no publicly documented efforts to scientifically study the effects of The Work using the standard APA peer-reviewed methodology.

Lastly, and most telling, if, according to Coumar and Hildago, you are still invested in being right rather than loving the truth (not a recognized outcome of any kind of psychotherapy that I am familiar with), it is your fault if The Work seems aversive to you.

[This PDF was authored by Lisa Biskup who is ringing a bell as a BKI staffer, but I haven't the time to research that at this moment.]

On a slightly different topic, this paper demonstrates what I have seen in several places regarding The Work and psychotherapy. Some licensed mental-health care providers who do discuss using The Work don't use it according to the BKI protocols. They skip or reframe questions that are negating (Who would you be without that story?), they are unfamiliar with the turn-around concepts, and they don't use the ~sub-questions~ that you often hear Byron Katie engaging during video-taped sessions, such as, "If X were your only path to God, would you take it?".

**Anil Coumar, MBBS, MA, LMHC: Director

Anil Coumar received his medical degree from Madras University, India in 1983 and completed a year of residency in psychiatry before moving to London, England. He completed a three-year training in Transactional Analysis in London, England. He also received a master's degree in psychology from Antioch University, Seattle. He is a Clinical Instructor in University of Washington's Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences and also teaches advanced skill lab seminars at UW School of Social Work.

His work as a psychotherapist is influenced by his training as a physician and psychotherapist and also his interest and experience in Mindfulness meditation, and Inquiry Based Stress Reduction. (Licensed mental health counselor; license #LH00004449)

Recent Publications and articles:

* Mindfulness Meditation in the Prevention and Treatment of Addictive Behaviors. G. Alan Marlatt, Sarah Bowen, George A. Parks, Anil Coumar - in "Buddhist Thought and Applied Psychological Research. Transcending the Boundaries" Eds D.K. Nauriyal, Michael S. Drummond, Y.B. Lal, Routledge (1st Ed) 2006.
* Anger management: Learn about some health ways to deal with anger and when to seek help.
* Anxiety disorders: Many people with anxiety disorder do not recognize it. Learn how to identify the symptoms and about available treatments.
* The Work of Byron Katie: A New Psychotherapy? by Anil Coumar, MBBS, MA & Ricardo Hidalgo, LMHC

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: walter1963 ()
Date: October 10, 2010 02:10PM


Check the postings by the user Anticult in the James Arthur Ray thread, heed his/her warnings as well in regards to the material. A fair amount of the books and online material are actually useless and full of hypnotic langauge designed to convince people to take expensive workshops and buy more videos and DVD's etc. Most of it is designed to con greedy and desperate sales types out their cash.

Here's the thing, most of the source material comes out of NLP and most of the big time practitioners(like Tony Robbins but not all) are unethical as can be. Most make a living selling $2000 to $3000 seminars to people. And they don't put their best material in books or seminars, you have to buy it from them directly for serious $$$$ as Anticult stated.

And there no publically available LGAT manuals that teach you have to manipulate people, that stuff is closely held by the cult leader. But I have ask why do you to know how to induce the perception of pain in people and then dangle a solution in front of them? Because there is no NLP/hynposis trainer of any repute that would tell you how.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: JayJoseph ()
Date: October 11, 2010 12:50AM

Dear walter1963.....Thanks for the information....I will read through the James Arthur Ray thread and read Anticults posts.....You mentioned to "heed his/her warnings as well in regards to the material" and by that do you mean that reading and listening to people like James Arthur Ray is dangerous even though one knows in advance that they are trying to upsell you to buy more expensive products and attend their seminars?....Also, I asked about the technique to increase ones pain and then offer a solution in reference to LGATs and NLP practioners because I thought there might be a manual(s) on the internet that exposed how they did it....I wanted to learn that to further insulate myself from their CON jobs......Perhaps I was not clear about why I wanted this information.....Thanks

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) "Dickens Pattern" Tony Robbins
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 11, 2010 01:44AM

lack of time, but these are complex and important areas.
Pain/pleasure, at root comes from Behaviorism, and of course is used in advertising.

But its taken to an extreme psychological level in the LGAT seminars, by their persuasion experts.

They find your pain, your WOUND.
Then they stick a knife in it, and magnify your pain, and twist the metaphorical knife.

Then they try to make you believe they can heal your pain with their expensive products/services.

That is all Byron Katie is doing, read her text.
The sales pitch is - Eliminate Suffering.
Eliminating pain from the human condition, the deluded dream of all time, that creates 1000x the problems.
In fact, facing the pain is the healthy thing to do, not dissociating from it, mentally, or with drugs/booze/pills, or the Byron Katie dissociating system, which will terribly harm people if taken seriously.

Tony Robbins talks about the "Dickens Pattern", which is explained as a way to modify your own behavior, but in fact is used on people without their conscious awareness. That is all he is selling as well.

There are tons of links on those subjects, but frankly I do not want to link to websites full of tricks to lure people into buying stuff. So its extreme Buyer Beware out there, for gaining knowledge.

There is an older manual online all over the place, that goes through pain/pleasure and the sales process, and how to powerfully manipulate people to BUY NOW. Of course, all the crooks and salesmen know this stuff already, its the regular people who don't know it.
It takes weeks and years of hard work to understand how it works. Sadly, mainly the crooks and salesmen are the ones with the motivation to study hard and learn how it works.

For a manual/audio with some of this search for a mix of these words online, and be extremely skeptical and careful, as its easy to get lured into the LGAT by any material from the LGAT.

Search for:

The Power to Influence (Sales Mastery) - Backtrack Notes - Anthony Robbins

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 11, 2010 09:28AM

Look up what has been posted here about sleep deprivation---it is a key ingredient in how LGATs loosen up critical thinking.

A lot is being learned about the importance of sleep in supporting both mental and physical health.

This message board can be searched for material on many subjects. Go to the upper right corner of the screen and find 'search'

Select 'All Dates' when searching either authors or for subject.

For sleep issues search under LGAT sleep or for variety, put circadian

For information about a particular trance induction method, search for yes set

Search for handshake induction

The message board has been going for eight years and to get everything on a particular subject beyond just one year, all dates must be selected. (Thank you Mr Ross and the many top notch attorneys and law firms who have given their time and resources pro bono to defend this discussion forum and have kept it in existence)

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: walter1963 ()
Date: October 11, 2010 01:06PM


Anticult pretty much nailed how Byron K. is doing the pain technique.

As for protecting yourself from these con jobs...avoid their books, DVD's and especially their seminars. Seminars are the worse, because these are artificial and controlled environements where the LGAT leader is in charge and you will end up manipulated.

Run, don't walk away from anyone peddling them.

It happened to me when I took a 3 day NLP seminar in 1995 and at the end of the 3 day seminar I found myself signing up for their 21 day $2500.00 "NLP practitioner certification program", ironically enough it was right next door to a EST seminar. And during the 21 day course, I was regularly bombarded by hypnotic suggestions from the 'trainers' and 'guardian angels'(basically fools who paid to take the seminar again) to sign up for the $5000.00 "Master Practitioner" program. They were pushing the next course so hard via hypnotic language that I was physically getting sick towards the end and the last week of it I was barely there.

And I also got to see a teenage cult survivor who also took the course go nuts. The poor kid was a guinea pig for every big name NLP trainer to try their bag of tricks on. Every weekened I got to see the kid getting progressively worse to the point he was having manic episodes towards the seminar. Mind you most of trainers were certified psychologists and they let the kid swing in the wind so to speak. He didn't even get a refund.

Ohh yeah, if you're getting queezy or ill from listening to some LGAT type, it means they are screwing with you on a unconscious level. Get away from them immediately.

It didn't get any better for me over the next 4 years before I broke away from NLP. Those seminars cost me my job, friends and caused a nervous breakdown.

And oh don't talk to any LGAT's types over the phone, some of them are skilled at using conversational hypnosis and will mess with you. For example I had a 30 minute phone call with one of Richard Bandler's(NLP's creator) senior trainers and I don't even remember much except something from the book 'Leaving Las Vegas' and a urge to take Bandler's seminars and buy his DVD's. I ended up purchasing $500.00 dollars worth of audio tapes from him.

These guys are very good. They aren't at all like your typical cold calling sales weenie.

And they have NO CONSCIENCE, they will fleece anyone.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work)
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 11, 2010 02:42PM


You've obviously been there and got the t-shirt.
Senior Trainers of a guy like Richard Bandler, can tie people in "loops" that they are literally not aware of.

There is evidence in this thread, that Byron Katie copied techniques from the same area, and from the Ericksonian hypnosis area. There are many hard facts in this thread, showing how she literally copied some of those patterns verbatim.

Its very very hard to combat these LGAT techniques, as if you attend a seminar, and are detached, the Gurus underlings will notice you.
Some of those with industry contacts were able to get "free tickets" or play the "refund" game, and were able to see the top people. But when you are detached, and observing their techniques, people notice.
Some get hostile.
They think you are stealing their content.

But only an experienced expert can go into the lion's den. Once you get to the top of the food chain, like near the Bandler people, its very dangerous, as they can hit you unconsciously.
Never bring money, or any cards, never bring a purse or wallet, and NEVER sign or buy anything.
Never let them push you around.

As stated if you start feeling "spacey" just leave.
If anyone gets into your face with high-pressure, always have a water bottle on hand, that can "slip" and dump into their $800 suit. Interrupt their pattern.

And stay off the phone with them, as stated. There are other threads here showing their phone techniques.

And those guys do have a CONSCIENCE.
Their conscience and morality tells them its unethical to NOT take your money.
They believe its ethical to take all your money, to teach you a lesson. They could not care less if their customers get pushed into being bankrupt from their schemes.
That is the school of hard knocks, and they don't care.

They literally believe its moral and ethical to take all of your money. Just like its moral and ethical for a lion to eat the gazelle.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work)
Posted by: The Anticult ()
Date: October 11, 2010 02:45PM


Please stay around these threads, if you can. There is a ton of hypno-NLP info here, but we need more.
And name some names if you can!

Stever Robbins has been named, he's a buddy of Byron Katie too.
Tad James & Co have been named too.

So naming names in the NLP-hypno world, while explaining their techniques is very important.
There are hundreds of them out there these days, running amok.

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Re: Byron Katie (the Work)
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: October 11, 2010 10:26PM

Avoid Signing This Kind of Paperwork

It does not matter what the name of the project is. This kind of paperwork, in and of itself, is the tip off.

No responsible psychotherapist or physician will ever have clients or patients sign this sort of paperwork.

Never, ever sign anything like this--ever.

School for the Work


James L Ray


Landmark Education


PSI Education


Insist on taking this kind of paperwork home to study it.

If you refuse to sign it and you are told you are 'holding yourself back or limiting yourself,


**You are empowering by protecting yourself

Because..this kind of paperwork is only shoved at us by entities determined to protect themselves--determined to cover their butts and who hired attorneys to craft these agreements.

They dont have our interests at heart. They are looking out for themselves while pretending to care about us.

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