Its interesting on a new Guruphiliac post, in the comments, they say that ole Byron Katie...

QUOTE:
"she threw my pal under the bus in a dispute he was having with...[edit: accurate honest online researchers]. He was one of her earliest teachers, but she very dishonestly disavowed any association with him."


Now of course, since its all cloak and dagger, and they refuse to name names, once can only speculate.
One can speculate that in fact that was possibly Steven Sashen, as he used to SELL THE WORK for money on his website, and also claim on his website...

"Steven is a former curriculum director for Byron Katie's School for The Work (2000-2001) and he taught with her at the school." [en.wikipedia.org]
(his wikipedia page is obviously self-composed by Sashen, which is supposed to be against the rules of wikipedia) [en.wikipedia.org]

But that was all removed from the Steven Sashen website, one assumes from some nasty letters from the BKI evil empire?
Search Google for:

"byron katie" site:sashen.com

Its all long gone.
So why did Steven Sashen remove all that material about being "curriculum director for Byron Katie's School for The Work (2000-2001)"?
Either he worked for Byron Katie Inc, or he did not. If you worked for a company, you can put that on your resume. Or if you did NOT work for a company, and lie about it, and put it on your resume, they can force you to take it off.
So what happened?
Anyone can do the math on that one. Someone was/is lying.

Does BKI know that information is now on Wikipedia? More sneaky stuff all around!

Notice how yet another former Byron Katie associate is forced into ABSOLUTE SILENCE about Byron Katie. Person after person is silent and silenced. Another former associate bites the dust.


Someone is also saying that Byron Katie has taken the bad stuff out of her 9 Day LGAT seminar, since it was exposed on these and other websites.
That is BS. They never take that stuff out. What they do is find ways to conceal it better, and just change around the content a bit.
They also FORCE EVERYONE INVOLVED, to sign massive disclaimers and gag-orders, that if they reveal what is going on in the LGAT seminar, they will sue their asses off forever.
Threats. Like Landmark.

These are not stupid people. They don't make millions a month for no reason. They are very clever and organized people, who hire the best in the business to clean up their messes, and keep the rabble in line.
Sadly, most people seem to have to learn that the hard way in the School of hard knocks.

Quote
golfer6716
Gee, vlinden. That's amazing that a person who is insane is a best selling author and seminar speaker. I wonder how she does it if she is so insane? But wouldn't that make the millions of people who buy her books insane? Are you saying that millions of people including me are insane. Interesting since you have never met me you can judge so freely. Ah, judgment, how does it feel? Just what does Jesus say about judging others- exactly.

I'll tell you who is insane. The people that give millions to Benny Hinn (fake healer) , Kenneth Copeland (heretic) , Ted Hagard (homosexual Evanelical), Paula White (fake minstry and divorced), Joyce Meyer (pant suit feminist fleecer) Peter Popoff, Richard Roberts (fraud) ---- I could go on for the next hour of all the "Christian frauds".

Wouldn't you say that people who give millions to these fake Jesus sellers are insane? Think about it before you attack a middle aged best selling author. At least Byron Katie doesn't tell people if they don't buy her books they will burn in hell and other manipulative ploys.

God bless. The Truth will set you free if you seek it with all your heart.

Golpher
It might serve you to investigate more of the threads on here. There are countless examples of obviously unbalanced and disordered thinkers here... authors/gurus/leaders who profit immensely from their particular forms of madness.

How can you possibly believe that the attainment of wealth is a definitive marker of sanity? Howard Hughes? L.Ron Hubbard? Sarah Winchester? Michael Jackson? Phil Spector? The world is populated with rich nutters ..from the mildly eccentric to the downright certifiable.

Insanity is not just reserved for the poor.

Hallo everyone!

I haven't made a comment on the board for a long time ... been busy with my own base material life. Which turns out to be pretty good, even though I'm on the 'outside' *gasp*. It turns out that having a baby isn't just 'heavy karma'. It's also a lovely experience. Lol :D

I'm a casual member of an on-line group that helps people get organized and keep on top of their housework/menu-planning all that day-to-day chore stuff. I NEVER expected that they would promote a product by Mr. Steve Sashen himself!

I thought you guys would really get a kick out of ole Steve selling a shoe that you can't see :)

Steve Sashen Invisible Shoe!

Now, if any of you here go and buy this invisible shoe, then the work of this thread has not been done! I just had to share with you guys because I had such a good laugh over this when I found it.

Wishing you all well and speedy recovery for all those here whose lives were "derailed for more than a decade" (Marta Szabo) like mine.

Your baby is going to be off to a great start.

As your child grows up, be very honest and do it during the time he or she is young enough to listen.

Best way to get it across is, in bad groups or relationships, they are nice to you at first
and then, long term they work you too hard and never let you play or pick your own friends.

Intensity isnt the same as love and intensity isnt the same thing as playing.

But...if you show your little one what real play is, rooting around in the laundry basket,
making a fort out of a cardboard box, put pillows in a big bathtowel and run around and
pretend you're fighting trolls in the misty forests in Ireland--that's something that keeps on giving in ways you cant trace.

PS here is real fun: Have a costume box full of stuff from yard sales and Goodwill and
later on you, your wee one and friends can root around in it and then run around and
make their own stories.

You can even get your kid in on things saying, here's a yard sale, see anything you can put in the costume box for later?

Oh man, invisible shoes. Nice metaphor.
$25 for a dollar store item. Nice door opener.

Of course, one can assume with the shoe order you may get a brochure and coupons for the Steven Sashen...

Instant Advanced Meditation Course, AdvancedMeditation.com, the Anti-Guru Blog, discovering Quantum Wealth, www.delightenment.com, etc, etc.

And of course "private coaching" services for more than $100 hr.
One could find out if one-to-one coaching for The Work (Byron Katie) is still being done, by just asking for it on the phone.

Actually, invisible shoes are a brilliant opener and Qualifier, as if you will buy dollar store sandals for $25, then you are the kind of customer sellers want.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2010 03:18AM by The Anticult.

Corboy - Thanks for the ideas! In fact, I hadn't consciously thought about teaching my daughter about bad groups or relationships yet. In some ways, I'm still sorting through everything within myself. So thanks for reminding me to be more attentive to the opportunities that will come up as she gets older.

I suppose when she starts school this will come up in the form of bullying - it's a hot topic in schools right now. What's interesting is that I work with chilldren suffering from emotional and behavioral disorders. One teacher mentioned to me yesterday "I never thought I would need to teach children how to play." Many times our students truly don't know how to play and create worlds in their imagination as we did when we were young. They only know the (often violent) games on their X-box, or PS2. All they want to do is play on the computer. They don't even want to play with each other. Many of them have seen R-rated movies before the age of seven. They are constantly rewarded with candy and treats by their parents and at school. I've noticed a great sense of entitlement in these kids. If they don't receive the reward (even if they don't earn it) they often start acting out and become aggressive. Once upon a time, a child might have thanked an adult nicely for a treat. Now they follow the adult around, hanging on them and begging for more, more more!

I think that teaching my daughter and these other children the power of play and imagination is wonderful for them and healing for me too. I hope all of this doesn't seem to much off topic but I really think that everyone can use the ideas above in corboy's post for the children in their lives and start to think consciously about how we can teach kids strong, healthy boundaries and sense of self. Nobody should have to lose years of their adult lives learning this stuff.

Play isnt off topic at all.

Despotic relationships, dictatorships, tight ass groups and cults all dislike play, because the despot wants to monopolize attention and energy and sees playfulness as a distraction or even a potential threat.

Its hard to take A Sense of Mission seriously if one knows how to draw a cartoon about it.

And here is a story I heard from a woman who had been in Elizabeth Clare Prophet's Church Universal and Triumphant (CUT).

Our speaker was at a meeting of the old and wonderful Cult Education Network before they were sued out of business. (The current CAN is affiliated with Scientology--AVOID)

Okay, lets return to our speaker. She told us she worked her ass off building survival bunkers for the cult and its leader. (They expected an apocalypse and that by hiding in the bunkers while the rest of us died, they'd survive)

She broke her leg on a CUT worksite bunker building accident. She was promptly shipped home to her family so that the church wouldnt have to pay to take care of her.
(Thats something about any bad relationship, including cults--unreciprocated loyalty.)

Her family had been worrying about her, but they got advice from CAN and instead of trying to argue with her, had 'kept the porch light on' and welcomed her home.

Our friend said she was in a cast, due to her leg fracture and so much of her time with her family was spent returning to a long lost pleasure they had all shared when she was little--playing game after game of Scrabble.

They would talk, laugh, argue.

Slowly, our friend realized that this was the first time she had had FUN, had played, since becoming involved with CUT.

And later she realized her family and friends were the ones who came through when she broke her leg, vs the cult which had gladly accepted her as unpaid labor but shipped her home as soon as she was the one in need.

But that stayed with me--that shared play with her family had so greatly helped a person discover that she'd missed out on fun, missed out on play during all her time in that apocalyptic cult.

Plenty of intensity was there. Plenty of meaning was there. But play? No.

And we have to pay attention because of our kids dont have real play today, they wont have this life giving memory to ground them when they venture out later on.

At the end of Brothers Karamazov, Dostoevsky has Alyosha tell the boys (uncorrupted by the youth culture and merchandising of today), tells them at their classmates grave, that one good memory can be ones salvation later in life.

And maybe just maybe, it is play.

Will say too, a sense of entitlement can bring no real joy in life.

A sense of discovery, of gratitude and suprise--thats where the juice is.

And, play is a way to learn how to find our energy, sense the energy and vibes verbal and non verbal with your playmates, and how to learn to pace your energy.

Its like learning a car or bicycle.

How to start to play, how to find out when you're playing so hard you're hurting someone because he or she is looking unhappy or says OW!

And learning to stop and care when your friend says OW! or begins to look unhappy.

How to notice when a friend looks tired and say, 'Wanna go inside for some water?'

Its like learning to drive and find the brakes and same thing with a bicycle--how to start the energy, the play, how to notice when its feeling harsh and not fun anymore, how to hear it when others say OW! how to feel when you are getting tired or feeling hurt and how to tell if you are with a playmate who doesnt hear you say OW!

That kind of person--you wanna learn to stop playing with them.

Some kids will hug or kiss too hard, and make other kids cry. Learn to help them understand that anything that hurts, even if someone calls it a hug or a kiss is NOT play and is NOT love and you can walk away.

Learn this early and again it carries you through life in ways no one can predict which is what play is all about.

In bad relationships, or cults, the hugs last too long and kisses begin to hurt.

And you are not allowed to stop for a rest when tired. (Thats the sign of a rotten job, too not only a badly run playground or cult)

And people can call it play, but when they tell you you can only paint in just a certain kind of color, cannot use black or draw in lines, cant draw or paint or play certain subjects--thats not free play anymore.

Its indoctrination.

Part of cult prevention is giving each other, kids and adults repeated opportunities for unsupervised play, so long as everyone knows its a game, and when you yell OW! others respect and hear you and back down.

Some of the recruitment into cults is disguised as playfulness (eg certain kinds of games used in LGATs) but its rigged and not a play at all.

I very much agree with Corboy that free play is wonderful and potentially protective from cults. Couldn't help but notice though Solea1 that you said you worked with behaviourally challenged kids.You might not be aware that many of the symptoms you listed ( not able to play,meltdowns, no sense of social boundaries, ie repeatedly requesting for treats..) would be very typical of many kids with mild autism.And since it is now being diagnosed in about 1 in 110 kids, ( 1 in 68 boys), theres' a lot about, so it would probably be helpful for you and your daughter to know that some of the kids that display these symptoms on the playground are behaving this way because of brain damage. Their behaviors may in fact have nothing to do with how they were parented. Not true of all behaviorally challenged kids, of course.

However, this does relate to both cults and cult proofing your daughter. What makes a group destructive is in my opinion, when the group starts doing things that on the most basic level are not kind. Shunning, scapegoating, overworking members; hopefully a child taught kindness and compassion for others and herself will be able to see when things are no longer kind or healthy. And to tie this into "The Work" one of the biggest issues in my opinion that I have with it is that is seems to teach a happy detachment from the reality of life, and would appear to lessen the idea of a social conscience...If a person learns to stand and watch injustice without caring; then what do they become?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2010 12:26AM by yasmin.

Yes yasmin, you're absolutely right to point that out. Autism, both diagnosed and (probably) undiagnosed is present some of in the children I work with. There are other conditions that may cause the behaviors I describe also. Most of the parents we work with do a terrific job with their kids, despite the many challenges involved. In any case, as teachers, we do often need to show them how to play and how to interact appropriately in social situations. It's certainly more difficult to to this for kids with mental health issues.

You bring up some great points yasmin. I have lots more to think about as a result of my experience now that I have a child. Maybe that's why I find myself back on the message board once again; because there's always so much more to learn.