Re: Byron Katie (the Work), Steven Sashen and Quantum Wealth
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 01, 2009 10:20AM

Steven Sashen's website home page has at times said the following:

Quote

Last on the list, but first in my heart are "The Work" and Integrated Kabbalistic Healing. Of all the transformative things I've done that affected my life, these are the only two that demonstrably changed it. The Work and IKH make up a significant part of Quantum Wealth. I like to say that The Work lets the mind rest in the heart, and IKH lets the heart rest in the soul. I'm incredibly grateful and blessed to have met Jason Shulman and Byron Katie, and to be doing Integrated Kabbalistic Healing and The Work.
My point is... if any people have concerns about The Work and also happen to be intrigued by Steven's "Quantum Wealth", they may wish to know that "The Work and IKH make up a significant part of Quantum Wealth."

I believe that consumers deserve to know this sort of thing.

(The above quote comes from an old version of Steven's website. It can be accessed at www.archive.org; at the "Wayback Machine" prompt, type "sashen.com", hit "enter", and then click on the most recent version of the page and scroll down.)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work), Steven Sashen and Quantum Wealth
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 01, 2009 10:27AM

An addendum to my previous post...

I've found a blog entry referencing Steven Sashen's "Quantum Wealth".

At one point the person says:

"I overwhelmed him with the Quantum Wealth worksheet on Sunday."

The person does a "turnaround" on that thought:

"I overwhelmed myself with the Quantum Wealth worksheet on Sunday."

Hmmm.

[[url=http://annojohnson.wordpress.com/2007/11/30/shampoo-series-kabbalistic-marriage/]Shampoo Series - Kabbalistic Marriage?[/url]]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: solea13 ()
Date: June 01, 2009 11:36AM

Helpme - I just read that blog you linked to above (Kabbalistic Marriage). The whole thing actually seems to be a pretty good example of all the things these 'turnarounds' do to people as has been described on this thread.

The writer describes the intense & painful thought process she went through when the man she felt 'so married to' suddenly stops comunicating with her for a period of time. Apparently there was no expectation of honest communication in a committed relationship (in other words, how come this guy, her 'spiritual husband' didn't let her know what the heck was going on with him!) Instead there is a LOT of confusion and self-blame going on in this blog post.

The blogger says:

"Friends and relatives are all worried about me, concerned, asking if I’m okay.
Good grief, Charlie Brown. I’m fine!"

Then goes on to describe all the ways she is obviously not fine! It was kind of sad to read, but it does enlighten about the way these techniques affected this particular woman's mind at the time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2009 11:41AM by solea13.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: Christa ()
Date: June 01, 2009 02:22PM

Am I the last person to know that Sashen's wife, Lena Phoenix, is the author of the book The Heart of a Cult? It's a novel that's based on her personal experiences in at least one cult.

I had a real WTF?!? moment whan I discovered that. I wonder if she posts here?

Link to site:
[theheartofacult.com]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 01, 2009 09:24PM

Quote
solea13
Helpme - I just read that blog you linked to above (Kabbalistic Marriage). The whole thing actually seems to be a pretty good example of all the things these 'turnarounds' do to people as has been described on this thread.

The writer describes the intense & painful thought process she went through when the man she felt 'so married to' suddenly stops comunicating with her for a period of time. Apparently there was no expectation of honest communication in a committed relationship (in other words, how come this guy, her 'spiritual husband' didn't let her know what the heck was going on with him!) Instead there is a LOT of confusion and self-blame going on in this blog post.

The blogger says:

"Friends and relatives are all worried about me, concerned, asking if I’m okay.
Good grief, Charlie Brown. I’m fine!"

Then goes on to describe all the ways she is obviously not fine! It was kind of sad to read, but it does enlighten about the way these techniques affected this particular woman's mind at the time.
I agree that the woman does not sound fine. Of course she is an adult... I just wonder about the state of a person's self-esteem when they try to "work" away upsetting thoughts which imo SHOULD BE upsetting. One could end up putting up with unacceptable behavior if they don't adequately process upsets in a relationship. I can't imagine staying married to a "husband" who is out of contact for several days without a word. That would not be okay with me.

I think it's healthy to have standards.

This stuff reminds me of some things Janaki has said:

Quote

I have met people who use The Work to shame themselves with the turnarounds.

I have met people who use The Work to make right what isn’t.

Quote

I know people who made the conscious decision to stop doing The Work and who felt greatly relieved. One particular person I am referring to here was doing The Work all day long, to get out of her anxiety. She said that she found a therapist who claims that he is treating a lot of people whom he has advised to stop doing The Work because it doesn’t seem to help them and it increases their sense of shame and guilt.
[[url=http://janakisstory.wordpress.com/chapter-36/]Downsides of The Work[/url]]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2009 09:24PM by helpme2times.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and The Heart of a Cult by Lena Phoenix
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 01, 2009 09:30PM

Quote
Christa
Am I the last person to know that Sashen's wife, Lena Phoenix, is the author of the book The Heart of a Cult? It's a novel that's based on her personal experiences in at least one cult.

I had a real WTF?!? moment whan I discovered that. I wonder if she posts here?

Link to site:
[theheartofacult.com]
Yeah, that's really something. I actually read her book last year. I didn't like it much. Frankly I've read far more compelling stories of cult involvement on this message board and on people's blogs than what I read in that book.

Of course that's just one person's opinion.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Freedom of Speech
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 01, 2009 09:53PM

I'd like to say something about the concept of Freedom of Speech. This message board is one powerful venue for it.

If people are at all fearful of speaking up about involvement in troublesome groups, they might be comforted that at least in this forum, they are well-protected. Rick made the following announcement nearly a year ago:

Quote
rrmoderator
The Ross Institute message board has now passed 50,000 posts.

Not bad considering the ongoing threats of lawsuits, a failed lawsuit filed by Landmark Education and the seemingly endless DDOS attacks for over a year perpetrated by Searcy, Arkansas resident and crank Bruce Raisley ( see [www.culteducation.com] ) through his former "botnet" of "zombie computers," principally located in Eastern Europe.

With help from dedicated attorneys such as Peter Skolnik and Michael Norwick at Lowenstein Sandler, Douglas Brooks, Robert Rivas, Thomas Gleason, and both Harvard University's Berkman Center and Public Citizen of Washington DC as helpful resources, the Ross Institute has survived every legal challenge posed by a list of would-be Internet censors, which attempted to dictate its content.

And with the help of Croatian Internet security experts, a dedicated system administrator and ISP in Sweden, the good work of the FBI and US District Attorney in Newark NJ, this message board survived and stopped Mr. Raisley's onslaught of DDOS attacks.

Though "trolls" have come and go and no doubt will continue to be an ongoing nuisance, earnest participants here have shown again and again a willingness to endure them and move on in an effort to benefit others.

It's been a great six years and counting since this board was launched.

Thanks everyone for sharing to make this board a meaningful resource for research, so that others can benefit from your knowledge and experience.
[[url=http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?3,60497]Message board has passed 50,000 posts[/url]]

If anyone harbors concerns about speaking up online, consider reading information at the Electronic Frontier Foundation's website:

[[url=http://www.eff.org/issues/free-speech]Electronic Frontier Foundation - Free Speech[/url]]

Quote

From the Internet to the iPod, technologies are transforming our society and empowering us as speakers, citizens, creators, and consumers. When our freedoms in the networked world come under attack, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is the first line of defense. EFF broke new ground when it was founded in 1990 — well before the Internet was on most people's radar — and continues to confront cutting-edge issues defending free speech, privacy, innovation, and consumer rights today. From the beginning, EFF has championed the public interest in every critical battle affecting digital rights.

Blending the expertise of lawyers, policy analysts, activists, and technologists, EFF achieves significant victories on behalf of consumers and the general public. EFF fights for freedom primarily in the courts, bringing and defending lawsuits even when that means taking on the US government or large corporations. By mobilizing more than 50,000 concerned citizens through our Action Center, EFF beats back bad legislation. In addition to advising policymakers, EFF educates the press and public.
I am exceedingly grateful that this Cult Education Forum exists. Thank you, Rick Ross.

There are also some really incredible people participating in this forum - people who care very much about informing fellow human beings about problematic groups. I have felt blown away by the supportiveness and intelligence and dedication of a number of people here. Thanks very much, you guys. :-)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie makes people 'grateful' for incest.
Posted by: solea13 ()
Date: June 01, 2009 10:34PM

Some other disturbing aspects from the blog linked by helpme above:

The writer talks about a blog post titled 'Grateful for Incest'. This title disturbed so many readers that she had to change it. In fact, she describes herself very bluntly as an incest survivor. Being 'grateful for incest' is something that Byron Katie encourages in incest victims by the process of 'turning around' and blaming themselves for what happened to them as children.

Doing these turnarounds can obviously create blurred sexual boundaries. There is an inability to see when personal boundaries are being crossed inappropriately, such as when they involve an imbalance or abuse of power.

Later in the blog:

"I told [a friend] that I don’t care how [my Guru] handles his power. That’s his life. I cannot even get upset at the allegations of other gurus having sex with their devotees or at Rajneesh/Osho’s fleet of Rolls Royces. Who cares???"

Doms, Gurus and Multiple Surrenders

This is a real-life example of what happens to the thought process when influenced by Byron Katie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2009 10:35PM by solea13.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie makes people 'grateful' for incest.
Posted by: helpme2times ()
Date: June 02, 2009 12:58AM

Quote
solea13
Some other disturbing aspects from the blog linked by helpme above:

The writer talks about a blog post titled 'Grateful for Incest'. This title disturbed so many readers that she had to change it. In fact, she describes herself very bluntly as an incest survivor. Being 'grateful for incest' is something that Byron Katie encourages in incest victims by the process of 'turning around' and blaming themselves for what happened to them as children.

Doing these turnarounds can obviously create blurred sexual boundaries. There is an inability to see when personal boundaries are being crossed inappropriately, such as when they involve an imbalance or abuse of power.

Later in the blog:

"I told [a friend] that I don’t care how [my Guru] handles his power. That’s his life. I cannot even get upset at the allegations of other gurus having sex with their devotees or at Rajneesh/Osho’s fleet of Rolls Royces. Who cares???"

Doms, Gurus and Multiple Surrenders

This is a real-life example of what happens to the thought process when influenced by Byron Katie.
I found that deeply disturbing to read. Whew.

In a previous post, she speaks about cults, referring to Steven Sashen, his wife Lena Phoenix, and even the Rick Ross website.

Quote

We talked about how cults try to be the authority in our lives, denying us our inner knowing. There are checklists on the web that help one identify the characteristics of a cult. Not surprisingly, many of them apply to fundamentalist Christian churches.

For example, see: [www.culteducation.com]
[[url=http://annojohnson.wordpress.com/2007/01/15/churches-cults-and-spirituality/]Ann's Tale - Community, Churches, Cults and Spirituality[/url]]

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by: GratefulRage ()
Date: June 04, 2009 02:42AM

I'm really disturbed by what I've read about the intensives run by BKI. I recognized descriptions of many of the techniques from other LGATs.
I've only participated in one before (Let Go and Live); but I attended the 'infomational sessions' on several others that were intended to sign people up, and chose not to participate.

Having said that, I found Katie's technique very helpful in changing my feelings about the past. There was absolutely nothing to be done about the traumas; no lawsuits, police reports, revenge, nothing. The only way to get happier was to find a way to just feel differently about it all, and the inquiry method - which I learned from Loving What Is, helped me.

I practiced vipasana meditation and studied Theravada for years. I knew that attachment is the cause of all suffering, but the good monks and teachers of vipassana (Insight) meditation could do nothing to help me with the pain of my 'story'.

If only Byron Katie had stopped there, and spent the rest of her life teaching this simple technique, rather than building an organization of sophisticated spiritual hustlers, who brought in techniques from every other cult and LGAT, to slap change into people.

If money brought happiness, there would be no expensive LGATs.

Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.