Quote
scrambledeggs
Have you seen this? LA Times article on Stephen Mitchell. [www.latimes.com]

Thank you, scrambledeggs. Someone posted a link to that article recently. Am glad it's being mentioned again. Here's something Mitchell said in the article:

"I have no pretensions to scholarship. I just love to play with the Taoist masters. For them, nothing is sacred. The best tribute is contradiction."

The author of the L.A. Times article says, "Nonetheless, Mitchell has been criticized for his irreverent adaptations and translations, for his New Age style and his way of turning sacred texts into spiritual manuals for everyday living."

One of Mitchell's books is "The Gospel According to Jesus". Amazon.com has 9 one-star reviews, let's take a look at some of them...

Bad Scholarship, October 17, 2001
By "doczed" (Canada)
Anyone can take parts of the New Testament to show this or that (in Mitchell's case to support the Zen view of Jesus). The point is to study it as a whole in an academic manner. I would recommend Meier "Marginal Jew" or Brown "Death of the Messiah" or even Grimbol's "Idiot's Guide to Life of Christ" If you must translate and comment fine, but don't edit, and do use historical evidence. Really shallow, and I am not a fundamentalist or Catholic; I am a bleeding heart liberal.

A waste of time, November 14, 1998
By "wnicho7873" (Wilmington, DE USA)
I write this as a seeker, not as a dreaded fundamentalist or, God forbid, a Catholic, as another reviewer has noted. Why is Mitchell's book so popular that it has even been made into a television program? He has done nothing but select passages from here and there in the Gospels to illustrate that Jesus was quite the teacher. This leaves the reader at the mercy of the author's editing. For example, right at the beginning, we see Jesus baptized by John. Mitchell then omits the incredible result of that baptism, the real stuff of the passage. The reader asks what he has been "taught" by Mitchell's truncated version. The New Testament itself provides the answer!

Stephen Mitchell should stick to Rilke., December 1, 2000
By Austin Wallson (New York, NY United States)
I have long enjoyed reading Mitchell's translations of Rilke. However, I found his reading of the gospels to be a smug editorial far more comfortable in its views than those of the strictest traditional Christian commentators. Mr. Mitchell has stripped the gospels of their poetry.

Jesus According to Mitchell, February 8, 2000
By A Customer
I have read a number of Stephen Mitchell's translations, not out of any great regard for the results of his efforts, but out of interest in the writings he has selected to translate. I therefore had moderate expectations when I bought his "Gospel According to Jesus." However, having read his lengthy introduction, I can only conclude that Mitchell is one of the most presumptuous men I have ever encountered in print. At the core of his comments is a claim that he is able to discern what is and is not authentic in the writings of the New Testament because--as he unmistakably implies--he is not only more enlightened than the authors of the Christian scriptures, but also more enlightened than Jesus himself. If ever a man was "wise in his own conceit," Mitchell is that man. I am not a fan of organized religion and thus have no objection to a scholarly dissection of the Bible (or the sacred texts of any other religion). But what I find insufferable in Mitchell is his complacency. He rather reminds me of a monkey glaring at a pride of lions from his perch in a distant tree. From his remote perspective, it seems to him that the lions, after all, aren't all that big. Next, he concludes that lions are really nothing to be afraid of; indeed, it's they who are afraid of him! Finally, he drifts off to sleep with a belly full of bananas, dreaming that he, in fact, is the King of the Jungle.

Those comments by Stuart Resnick on the Marta Szabo blog are truly beyond the pale.
[forum.culteducation.com]

They are precisely relevant to the Byron Katie situation, and Stuart Resnicks distraction, deflection, and poker-bluff tactics.

What is his agenda?
He says the SYDA org is weak?
Are you kidding? That is a blatant bald-faced bluff and nonsense. Does this look weak?
a quick count shows close to 150 Siddha Yoga ashrams and centers worldwide, with a huge presence in the USA. Why is he putting out deliberately false information?
[www.siddhayoga.org]

And he says that anyone can check the internet? More BS, on several levels.
If a person searches for SYDA, up come all of the PR websites from the SYDA org.
They also use all sorts of techniques on new recruits to try and counter the bad PR.
And on top of that, SYDA was trying to eliminate critical websites, and they send in people to create distortion in the information available, to confuse people.
Sound familiar?

Who else is trying to create distraction and distortion around the first-hand reports about the Byron Katie seminars?
And these groups spend a great amount of money and effort, to deliberately create false information and confusion around their controversies, blaming "bad teachings" and "bad apples" etc.

The most important part is where Stuart Resnick says that..
"There will be no more "innocent victims" of SYDA. Anyone foolish enough to ignore the info freely available on the net is being willfully ignorant."

What is Stuart Resnick saying? He is saying that the most naive and innocent DESERVE to get exploited. He is calling them IGNORANT and FOOLISH.
What a complete crock of bullshit.
How in the hell are people who are a bit naive and UNTRAINED in these areas, going to LEARN the techniques being done on them, if they don't learn them in threads like this one, for example?
That is the point of threads which expose the precise covert persuasion TECHNIQUES being used by people like Byron Katie, and Muk, Seung Sahn, and the rest of them.

You see what Stuart Resnick is doing? He is ultimately DENYING there is such a thing as powerful, subtle, covert influence techniques, and social influence and manipulation, that can happen to people without their awareness. He is trying to deny the FACT, that there is a massive industry, with expensive advanced influence trainings where intelligent people can learn EXACTLY how to do covert persuasion engineering on large groups of people.

And worse, he is BLAMING people who have had no training in this area, for what is being done to them without their awareness.
"They who have put out the people’s eyes, reproach them of their blindness." John Milton (1642)

Why is he doing this?
One can draw their own conclusions.
But its very clear he is doing it, for the same reason any other wannabe micro-guru does. To distract people from the very techniques that he and his own organization are using, and are trying to use on their own people.
And also, he is so enmeshed in it for so many years, he believes a lot of the brainwashing from Seung Sahn about these processes.

For example, there is this pathetic "discussion" between Seung Sahn and Muktananda in Cambridge, December 21, 1974. (search for Muktananda to find it)
www.kwanumzen.com/teaching_letters/0201_0300.pdf
It does really show you what kind of people both these guys were, especially Seung Sahn, who claims diabetes is good, and then tries to play little mind games with Muktananda, to show how clever he is to act like he knows nothing...blah blah. Deny distract distort.

"They who have put out the people’s eyes, reproach them of their blindness." John Milton (1642)

Diabetes is good, hah?

Diabetes is the leading cause of male inpotence.

Its also a leading cause of blindness, amputations, kidney failure and its expensive as fuck to live with. Go to your local walgreens and see the price of glucometer test strips.

Prediabetes and diabetes also tremendously accelerate development of early onset coronary heart disease.

I was a juror ten years ago on a medical malpractice trial in civil court. One of the physicians who testified told us that diabetes causes a particular kind of arteriosclerosis that damages lengthy sections of arteries, rather than just patches here and there.

He said that even when a diabetic heart patient has successful bypass surgery, those bypassed arteries have a higher probability of re clogging and reclogging sooner than if coronary bypass surgery is done on a nondiabetic person with arteriosclerotic heart disease.

Diabetes is also associated with a very high incidence of painless heart attacks. Youc an have a series of painless heart attacks and go into heart failure and not know it.

The guy whose case we heard was diabetic, didnt get his condition treated aggressively enough.

he had a bunch of painless heart attacks and was found to be in Grade 3 heart failure and his heart was so damaged he was told the treatment of choice was a heart transplant.

He was 42 years old when given this horrible news.

So....diabetes is good--?

Kiss my low glycemic index barley grits.

Must mention I dont have diabetes or prediabetes and it runs big time in my family.

Reason I dont have it is I had access to INFORMATION.

I have been working on a diabetes prevention lifestyle for 30 years, since I was 20 years old.

And thank God that info was available to me, not hidden under a rock..

is getting that information out there to people who are too busy and stressed out to slow down and stay up to date.

here on RR.com we are offering a Cult Recruitment Prevention lifestyle by offering the gift of information.

No one has to come here, but those who do come here deserve to read in peace.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2009 05:21AM by corboy.

Quote
The Anticult
For example, there is this pathetic "discussion" between Seung Sahn and Muktananda in Cambridge, December 21, 1974. (search for Muktananda to find it)
www.kwanumzen.com/teaching_letters/0201_0300.pdf
It does really show you what kind of people both these guys were, especially Seung Sahn, who claims diabetes is good, and then tries to play little mind games with Muktananda, to show how clever he is to act like he knows nothing...blah blah. Deny distract distort.

Seung Sahn in the dialogue with Muktananda... talk about "crazy wisdom"... minus the wisdom.

Muktananda came across to me as sane, especially next to Crazy Horse. He rightly replied to SS: "These answers don’t make any sense."

He also observed, "In your daily life this philosophy of yours is useless."

Well put, Muk!

(Who knew I'd ever be applauding that guy?!)

Quote
corboy
Diabetes is good, hah?

Diabetes is the leading cause of male inpotence.

It's also a leading cause of blindness, amputations, kidney failure and its expensive as fuck to live with. Go to your local walgreens and see the price of glucometer test strips.

Thank you for the reality check about a serious condition like diabetes.

I met a diabetes educator who was donating her Sunday afternoon do doing free outreach and education on our local street corner.

She told me that the two tests to get are not just a fasting blood glucose ( no food for 12 hours beforehand, no coffee, and you should have normal body tempreture and NOT be under stress at time your blood is drawn at the lab)

She also said that an additonal test will establish how well your body is metabolizing glucose=-the glycosylated hemoglobin assay, known as the Hb1AC

This test indicates what your blood sugar has been like the previous 8 weeks. She said ideally, it should be six or lower.

Your blood pressure should be within the normal range or below. An early sign trouble is if blood pressure rises.

Many of the blood pressure testing machines at supermarkets can be accurate. I was told this by another health worker who was testing peoples BPs at a street fair.

If anyone has served hard time in an abusive relationship or group, they should get a full physical exam including these tests.

The diabetes educator also gave me some literature. It stated just smoking one cigarette can produce a 15% reduction in insulin utilization--another reason to give up tobacco.

Information is power.

Its looks like Seung Sahn and Muktananda were just trying to "diss" eachother and give the other guy a "kick" in an infantile game of one-upmanship. (typical of gurus, who are the supreme narcissists)
Its pretty obvious that Seung Sahn was afraid that Muk would make him look like an ignorant, uneducated peasant, so Seung Sahn just says a bunch of nonsense to try and deflect.

Seung Sahn refuses a "gift" of a candy from Muk due to alleged diabetes, Muk tells him to walk to cure the diabetes, (implying that Seung Sahn is too fat), then SS responds like a 3 yr old...diabetes is good!
blah blah.
It just goes on and on.

[By the way, never accept a "candy" or "tea" or anything like that from a Guru like this. Ever.
It could be laced with a mild psychedelic...not a bad idea for a guru, hand out candies to people before you speak, which are laced with a psychedelic drug. That would have worked great in the 1970's, better than hash-brownies, and then people think you are a magical Guru with magical powers].

________________________
QUOTE: (Soen-sa is Seung Sahn)
Soen-sa—I am not a philosopher. I am not a scientist. I am not a Buddhist.
Muktananda—Then what is your philosophy, and what is the use of that philosophy?
Soen-sa—I have no philosophy.
Muktananda—Then what is your purpose?
Soen-sa—You already understand.
Muktananda—I must go now.
_______________________
He got that right. He is not a philospher, is totally ignorant of science, and is not a Buddhist either.
Its very apparent that Seung Sahn was literally a Zen flim-flam man, who found it was easy as hell to dupe doped-out dropped-out westerners, with a few trick phrases.
He went and set up a zillion Zen centers, handed out "robes" to anyone who could pay dues, got women to manage his "Zen" centers as he did not trust other men and thought they would steal his students/money. Then had sexual relationships with his female center leaders, to make them more loyal to him out of "love", all the time, lying his ass off while he was houndogging around the country.

Also notice, that when trapped, all Seung Sahn can say is..."I hit you with my Zen stick!"
That's all he's got. Either you submit to his nonsense, or he hits you with a Zen stick.
Well, perhaps if Seung Sahn had kept his "Zen stick" in his pants, then he would not have had those sex scandals with his students?

Why are some people attracted to this type of fraudulent "Zen"?
Perhaps because it allows them to do, and say, anything they want, without regard for the facts or even basic honesty?
For example Stephen Mitchell in this video, says his Zen Guru (who he doesn't mention by name due to the sex scandals) taught him to disregard the texts he was "translating"! There are some appropriate comments below from the youtube.
The Tao of Translation - Stephen Mitchell [www.youtube.com]

So people who enjoy making stuff up, bluffing, tricking, manipulating, fabricating, those folks are going to be attracted to Seung Sahn and the Kwan Um School of Zen method. For them, its a virtue to try to dupe people and dominate them. Its the poker game of life.
Stuart Resnick has the support of Empty Gate Zen Center, so that place should be avoided at all costs.

In a sense, the Seung Sahn method, and the Byron Katie method are similar, in that their main technique is creating confusion in the students, and then dominating them. All the while denying it, and playing mind-games with them. Some research into the background of Seung Sahn would be very enlightening...that is certain.

Stephen Mitchell seems to have learnt the worst of both worlds.
In his video, you can see him play-acting, pretending he is trying to "remember" how old he was when he met his mysterious Zen teacher, the unmentionable Seung Sahn. Just transparent bluffing, he's told the "Story" many times, and he's just trying to copy his current master of public speaking, the wife Byron Katie.
Stephen Mitchell is a very poor public speaker, with a wispy monotone voice, in the videos of him reading his so-called "translations". Anyone who makes it past 60 seconds and stays conscious, gets a Muktananda candy.
On a scale of 1-100%, Byron Katie advanced public speaking skills, are in the 95% percentile.
Stephen Mitchell? 10% maybe even lower, down to 5%. Its unwatchable.
(similar to his clumsy use of various persuasion language patterns in his PR stuff)

But one wonders what kind of literary skeletons might be in the closet of Stephen Mitchell?
(have these books been compared yet?)
Grace Unfolding: Psychotherapy in the Spirit of Tao-te ching by Greg Johanson, Ronald S. Kurtz
A Thousand Names for Joy: Living in Harmony with the Way Things Are (Tao) Byron Katie - Stephen Mitchell
[forum.culteducation.com]



[Warning about Stephen Mitchell's methods]
manipulative tactics from Stephen Mitchell in email
[forum.culteducation.com]
Stephen Mitchell email to Janaki [forum.culteducation.com]
[forum.culteducation.com]
MARY POPPINS and sock-puppets and Byron Katie
[forum.culteducation.com]



____________________________
[viewer comments]
The Tao of Translation - Stephen Mitchell [www.youtube.com]
- So basically, rather than translating it, he just made it up.
- He didnt translate it. He doesnt even know the language it is written in. He 'interpreted it'. IE, he made it up because it 'sounded good' to him. He makes his assertations, such as 'Oh, such a wise document couldnt possibly have discriminatory language against women' or such, from a modern, western perspective and then incorporates it into his 'interpretation'- regardless of what the origional says. He is assuming beforehand that it must confirm to his worldview.
- i cannot imagine how his "interpretive translation" done without any knowledge of the chinese language is worth reading over other translations.
- hes not very smart. the stupid often see the regular as smart.
_______________________________



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2009 08:52AM by The Anticult.

and of course, RandomStu Stuart Resnick has a blog post on poker and "spirituality", with a deliberately oversimplified poker analogy.

Poker Tactics for Spiritual Life
[stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com].
And of course, the requisite position from RandomStu...your Guru is suspicious and has a dark shadow, but my friends anti-guru is wonderful, so let me distract your mental focus from asking tough questions.

(previous)
RandomStu, Stuart Resnick, Zen. Chess. Poker
[forum.culteducation.com]
Seung Sahn, RandomStu, poker bluff tactics
[forum.culteducation.com]

No one plays poker like that, unless you are a chump, and want to get cleaned out. There are countless other levels beyond that, which you read in the moment. You might act strong when weak, and deliberately get caught in a bluff, and then time do it again, but reverse it as a trick.
You might act weak when weak, and the weak when strong.
You bluff with a weak hand several times and lose, and then bluff with a strong hand ONCE when it counts.
You might even bluff that you are a naive idiot savant, and have never played poker before, and "never read a book", and then clean people out. Sound like anyone you know? Byron Katie is an expert in that game plan.

And poker and 'spiritual life' are the OPPOSITE, if you have even a tiny-shred of ethics or common decency in your bones.
Poker is about gambling with REAL money, and its about defeating your opponents with bluffs, tricks, misdirection, complex strategy, and by any means available, so you can WALK AWAY with THEIR CASH, tax-free to boot. Poker is an utterly ruthless game, where the WINNER TAKES ALL THE MONEY.

But for some people, that is analogous to "spirituality"?
Its analogous to being a BANDIT.
There are some terribly dishonest, and almost unbelievably unethical people who go into the "spiritual" racket, as an easy way to make money. It this area, the most ambitious and greedy entrepreneurs, literally take-over.

What about the poker-skills being used, by those using the deliberately oversimplified poker analogies?
What about their bluff-tactics and misdirection?
RandomStu has shown too many of his cards, in his poker-bluffs to distract from those who are analyzing Byron Katie. He's bluffed himself right out of the match, there is nothing left. Its game over.

The reality is that anyone connected with the Kwan Um School of Zen method by Seung Sahn, every word they say has to be checked against the facts. Their "word" is useless, there is no honor or integrity being displayed. Their "word" is literally like a poker-hand to them, simply a game that is being played to defeat the opponent, a try to win the cash jackpot.
That is not Zen, Zen is supposed to be about honesty, authenticity, and simplicity.
Its not about trying to screw your opponent, and walk away with their money.

Same goes for the Byron Katie org, and Stephen Mitchell, who has learned from boths sides of the table.

Its nauseating, frankly, to have to look into these types of behaviors, and the people who carry them out. Its shocking what some people will do, and how far some people will go, with their dishonesty, schooled misdirection and bluff tactics.
But as they say, birds of a feather flock together, and in this case, that is certainly accurate.
Game over, and table closed.

This is about the posts being made by jgf75 on the guruphiliac forum. [guruphiliac.lefora.com]

jgf75 is just playing word-games with the Ericksonian Hypnotherapy ideas. jgf75 says he is calling these people involved and ASKING them what they are doing!
LOL! please, call Stephen Mitchell, Stever Robbins, and Byron Katie and ask them "what they are doing".
Man oh man.
People try to act so innocent about people schooled in advanced persuasion. But these are clever people. They would LOVE if you called them to ask them about their techniques, especially if you don't know anything about their techniques, so they can do them to you, while they say there is no such thing as what they are doing. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.
This person seems to not have actually read the entire context of the postings, and that is why they are attaching to the hypnotherapy aspect, as that has been a recent subject.

and he says he called "Certified Ericksonian hypnotists" to ask them to review the postings?
Who specifically? Where is the EXACT text of what they allegedly said?
post the text of what they said, we'll look at it.
And it can't be one of the many hypnotherapists who work for/with Byron Katie and who SELL the Work for profit. ;-)

First off, as I said 100x, Byron Katie is doing a WARPED and TWISTED perversion of what is called Erickonian Hypnotherapy, in such an abusive manner, you can't even believe it.
People who are certified hypnotherapists, doing real hypnotherapy, are not the problem. Its the abuse of aspects of the techniques, being used against people.

The EVIDENCE is here on this thread. You can't "ask" people who are doing these persuasions to people, as they will "lie". There are people who "lie" to make "money"...imagine that.
That is the entire issue, obviously. How many lies do you have to catch people in?
1, 20, 100, 500? How many lies have been spotted in this thread? Way over 100, so its just more bluff tactics.

Then of course the ad-hominem material. What is that about? Because the FACTS are extensive, there is nothing they can do other than ad-hominem and overgeneralizations.
There are hundreds of FACTS in this forum.
How many FACTS does Byron Katie give? Almost zero, and she does that on purpose, so she can't get busted. But there are ways to cross-reference, and spot the fanrications.

there is no evidence she targets an audience who is desperate? jgf75, really?
That is another joke, right?
Byron Katie targets people in desperate suffering, mainly women. She also targets an audience who knows nothing about LGAT's, or any of the methods being used. That is deliberate.

This is a comment by jgf75

QUOTE: "I'm trying to understand whether Katie is really manipulating people with malicious intent, or simply is a woman who is very strange in her thinking, with an organization that does pretty standard internet marketing".

Who from BKI is writing this, that is the real question?
"strange in her thinking" is the key phrase, trying to make people think that its just "strange stories" being told when in FACT, as proven, they are a warped form of hypnotherapy stories.

Byron Katie doesn't use anything beyond internet marketing?
OMG, that is almost too much. One thing about jgf75, is you can tell what business they are in.
To DENY the dozens and dozens of BLATANT LGAT seminar techniques being used by Byron Katie, mentioned right in that thread, displays that jgf75 has to be involved in those Byron Katie seminars, and is trying to deflect from the tech.
Otherwise, he would be analyzing the details of those seminars and contracts, WHICH ARE IN THAT THREAD, instead of trying to pretend they don't exist!

Gaps in the evidence?
Why doesn't jgf75 worry about the Byron Katie GAPS in the evidence of her numerous Stories?
What about the Byron Katie gaps in the facts, that she leaves out of her marketing materials?
Any gaps in the evidence, are due to the false information put out by Byron Katie.
why not compare the gaps in the evidence from her books?

There is no way that jgf75 has read this entire thread, and looked at the evidence. Only a portion of it. You can tell, as he is giving too much evidence to the hypnotherapy part, as that is probably what they read. As has been said, the warped hypnotherapy, is only a PORTION of what Byron Katie is doing. She is doing dozens of other techniques on top of those.

And you have literally the sheer dishonesty about the Byron Katie LGAT seminars.
Many people become unhinged, and some do not? Really? That's not how it works. The concern is for the vulnerable people who are gettin hurt.
This is the standard apologetics for the LGAT.
Its obvious this person works for the BKI LGAT. Why?
Because EVERY SINGLE PERSON has to sign that Byron Katie RELEASE OF LIABILITY [forum.culteducation.com]


As time goes by, more evidence will come out, and eventually Byron Katie will be seen in the same light as people like L Ron Hubbard. He also simply fabricated his own life story, and then create Xenu space stories, and the rest of if.
Byron Katie has created her own personal "Story", which she changed several times over the years, and made it as uncheckable as possible on purpose. But it has been unmasked in this thread, and elsewhere.
For Byron Katie to claim out of the blue, and get others to claim, that she is some spiritual being, is simply a new style of confidence trick. Of course its a simple con-game. It doesn't take alleged "years" of research to find that out! LOL. By then, you will have given Byron Katie your wedding rings, and have worked for her for years for no pay. That's a little late, don'tcha think?

So again, one would be wise to be very skeptical of the techniques being used by the people who are making the millions. There is just a handful of people at the inner circle making the big bucks.
But there are many dozens of people around, who charge minimum $100 an hour to do the Byron Katie process with people. If they are popular due to the Byron Katie referral listing, and get a full roster, what kind of money is that? They could make $500-$1,000 a day. Some would make less, but others could easily make $100,000 a year, or more.

Its a shame that there are people who do this to other people, and its a shame that others try to cover-up for those people, and create confusion and a smoke-screen. Confusion is their best friend.
Once a group like the Byron Katie group starts going sour, then they move to just create distortion, to try to get people into the LGAT seminar.
If you happen to be vulnerable to their methods, then the Byron Katie system can literally ensnare you for years and even for life, that is its stated intent...LIFE-LONG membership.

Notice the main tactic is to try and pretend that the techniques don't exist, and are not being used.
Why?
Because if people are AWARE of the tech, and that its being used, what happens?
It doesn't work.
Put Byron Katie in front of a room of people trained in advanced persuasion, and she would literally get nowhere. Its very obvious to the trained eye.
That is why she avoids those people at all costs!

But if people become AWARE that the techniques exists, and exactly how they work, and that they are being used...then they don't work very well, if at all.
That is why they will do anything to keep the public ignorant of what is happening. They will distort, they will deny, and they will lie, with full-knowledge.

All people have to do is learn the techniques, learn what is happening, and stay sharp, and stay current as the techniques advance. Don't let their apologists, and Confusionists confuse you.
There are some people who are very skilled at creating confusion, they have been literally doing it for decades.






[Warning about Stephen Mitchell's methods]
manipulative tactics from Stephen Mitchell in email
[forum.culteducation.com]
Stephen Mitchell email to Janaki [forum.culteducation.com]
[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2009 03:04AM by The Anticult.

Something for the children:

[209.85.173.132]