yes, thanks for that summary of how BK recruited a key member of her mainly "volunteer" workforce.
Notice that its quite similar in basic form to what Carol Skolnick described before, except that the intial communications were by email, I believe. (that document Going To Work Naked, has since been taken down).
And then right after that, I described the specific persuasion process that BK used to deeply hook Janaki. [forum.culteducation.com]

We should also be very grateful to Janaki, for having the personal integrity to so honestly describe what happened. Its very rare a person gets to look inside the process of personal recruitment of that kind. How a leader of a growing group, like BK, pre-selects and actively recruits very specific people. It really is classic headhunting, if you will.

And it even goes further than that. Many of these types of modern Guru's, literally get their new "volunteer" staffers, to write out in detail, information about their former Guru's, like Muktananda. This process can be called elicitation, and its where they can discover exactly how their new follower encodes their former Guru in their mind, with specific images, phrases, patterns, etc. Then the new Guru will use those same images and phrases to complete the Transference. Its all done very self-consciously.

Other groups even have detailed questionnaires, where they elicit that kind of information, as well as personal financial information, relationship history, etc. They study all of that quite carefully.
Of course, groups like Scientology, record all of that information on tape, and also personal confessions, which are kept on file permanently.

It does somewhat remind one, of all the video/audio recording that is going on at the BK School LGAT's, where people are talking about their most shameful moments, as mentioned people were talking about abusing their children, and even zoophilia, etc, and are being encouraged to do so, and its all being recorded.
It then can be uploaded to YouTube, and even sold in DVD products, by BKI forever, due to the release people sign.

That is very extreme, even for an LGAT. Not all LGAT's record every sordid detail, and then make you sign away your rights forever.
It would be like if your therapist recorded all your sessions where you are spilling your guts about everything, and could then put your sessions up on YouTube to get more clients, and sell DVD's with you in them, for the next 20 years.

on that other forum, a participant said that BK said you could only be kicked-out of the seminar for 2 things, selling stuff, and having a weapon. That is very interesting.

First off, its not true.
People get kicked out if they start asking tough questions, or raising doubts, etc, or broke other rules. (the BK seminars have more rigid rules people have to follow, than any LGAT I've heard of, more than even EST did). They say they are Voluntary, but how can they be Voluntary Rules, if they kick you out if you break them?
Voluntary Non-negotiable Rules = Double-Bind
If you choose to break the rules openly, they can kick you out, and you lose $5,000, plus feel cast-out of the group, etc.


Next, no one else is allowed to sell anything, but notice that BKI can sell anything it wants.
Double-Standard.
(similar to how no one is allowed to wear make-up, yet BK is made-up, and even has lighting designed to give her a "halo effect", which is done by back-lighting a strong light that shines on the back of the head).
Double-Binds, Double-Standard.

also interesting how she supposedly talks about "weapons" not being allowed, as if that has to be mentioned?
That is not the first time she has spoken about weapons, being at the wrong side of a gun, etc, she uses that in her Stories quite a bit. Other than the obvious reason, she is using the "gun" image quite a bit as a metaphor in her stories...in her "robbery" Story...very interesting...it does seem that gun "power image" is used a lot.

Thanks for posting that text, it can be analyzed.

Most of her books appear to be online, and on torrents.

One point of hope in this, is that most people do think that Byron Katie is manipulative and weird when they first come across her. Expecially people who are not naturally "mystical".
She is not as popular as they are trying to make her, her books at the library have few holds, if any.
The bad news is she knows she doesn't need to reach everyone, as most groups can function with a core of high-ticket customers. The other bad news is they are trying to make her more mainstream.


That language below is standard trance-work, twisted to her own method. Its more for her followers who have been exposed to her words before, and they will literally get swept into those words.
Artfully Vague, Induced Confusion, Double-Binds, paradox..
Its not meant for the everyday conscious mind, but for the UNCONSCIOUS, like the mind in dreams.

The twisted part is she is literally FUSING her own identity concept, with that of the reader, if they buy into the words. She even mimicks some Gnostic new testament language from John...I am in you..you in me...etc.
She wants the reader to FUSE and become ONE with the concept of "Byron Katie", and "belonging" to her. She plays with paradox and confusion-inducing.

Also, taken from the 'Nog' concept, she constructs "Byron Katie" as a type of mystery wrapped in an enigma living only in the moment, which is very destabilizing.
So the reader who buys into that trance-language, is going to FUSE their own self-concept with the Byron Katie concept, and the language being used is even similar to language from the new testament...to magnify that projection too.

I don't know, that language is not strange to me at all. You have to be very intelligent to write that sort of language, especially since its part of a huge system of writing, and stories, using Open Loops, etc. She has designed an almost entire new vocabulary of words and images, a seperate BK-universe.
Its perfectly rational and carefully written, in the context it was written, to speak to the UNCONSCIOUS...
To make you think she is some walk-in spiritual being from another dimension who is at the very core of your being. If you really buy into it, eventually she IS you.
The subject will literally totally identify with BK, in terms of self-concept.

Awesome and terrifying stuff.
This is why the NLpers and hypnotherapists are getting in on the act, they see exactly what she is doing. Those are all carefully written and designed Inductions.

but its very dangerous to FUSE your own self-concept with some destabilized guru concept like this.

How do you turn it off? To get rid of it, you have to excise those concepts from your mind, using the same methods in reverse.

Quote
Jay Cruise

This is on her personal blog which is not a great advertisement for the general public. I don't think cult leaders are usually this cryptic upfront. I am going to need to read her latest books to understand why people don't find her strange. Are any of her books online?

"I invite you all to inquiry, to your own marvelous death of the body (before it dies) as you understand it to be and to be born of who and what you are not to your mind and then to understand what you are in that, as that unknowable known."

"Your own answers to the questions and examples of turnarounds have kept us as one, undivided in peace and beyond, for so many months, even years."

"I live in you and I die in you, what else is possible? Nothing."

"I love living in you if you love it and I can tell you that you live in me and only that, you are my life."

"I love not belonging to me and you do and belonging to you when I do."

"What identification have you given me? I live as that."

"Do you love me yet? I welcome you to love beyond the self."

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2009 02:29AM by The Anticult.

by the way, an experiment could be done.
A page of the BK "weird" language patterns in text, could have her name stripped out, and then sent to some good hypnotherapists, for analysis.
They would immediately identify it as based on Ericksonian hypnotherapy, but also that its been twisted and warped.

You see, in the proper Ericksonian hypnotherapy, that language would never be used in that way, quite the opposite. It would be used to make you stronger, and to find your own unique identity and personal strengths. You find and connect with your OWN unconscious, not anyone elses. You find your own images.

Its literally heinous to have someone like BK colonize your unconscious like that. Its literally meant to take the place of religious projections in people's minds.

In proper Ericksonian work, you find your own empowering internal unconscious structures, inside yourself, and use that style of language, simple to communicate with the unconscious.
But that type of hypnotherapy work is like a scalpel, it can be used by a trained surgeon to help people, or by a back-alley unlicensed plastic surgeon who cuts people open for cash and sends them home bleeding internally.

I remember from years ago that Katie (on her tapes) used to refer to U.G. Krishnamurti a lot. She once said that he was the only human being she ever met that was in “her” state. I once met U.G. He appeared to be free, ruthless, uncompromising, tactless, rude and also funny in his own peculiar way. U.G. was totally not interested in creating any kind of philosophy, methodology, movement or following. He branded every single guru as a con man or woman. There are several YouTube clips with the entire interview between Willem de Ridder, Byron Katie and U.G. When U.G. switches on the ‘talk’ button, it is very hard to get a word in edgewise or any wise. The same with Katie. Finally she got to say something and tried to talk to him about her questions, and tries to get him to admit to something. When she was done talking, Willem asked U.G. for his comment. He said ‘no comment… politicians… gimmicks…’.

Interview Willem de Ridder, Byron Katie and U.G. Krishnamurti (5 parts)
[www.youtube.com]

I don't know about everyone else, but the more I learn about Katie the scarier it gets. I'm close to concluding "the work "is potentially worse than Scientology. I didn't think that was possible.

I feel compelled to repeat and expand on a fact that appears much earlier on this epic thread.

Katie's son, Ross Robinson, the "Godfather of Nu Metal," is a very successful music producer. He's worked with lots of groups, including KoRn and Limp Bizkit.

I think of Nu Metal, which is largely over now (thank god), as a more hardcore kind of Thrash Metal, maybe even a form of Death Metal or grindcore. Chopin it ain't. Young men are the main audience for concerts by these sorts of bands; Fred Durst (lead singer, Limp Bizkit) managed to attract more women to concerts by letting them in for free. I gotta say, there's *nothing* Durst could do to get me to go to one of his concerts.

I can't help but wonder about any cross-fertilization that might have occurred between Katie and Ross. I don't think it's a huge deal, but it's very striking.

I've seen some of her youtube videos and they are very unappealing. I'm guessing the first point of contact for a lot of people is her books, especially when she is promoted by Oprah. So that would give an insight into how Katie gets people to her seminars in the first place. I want to know if they are as insane as she seems and how much polishing Mitchell has done.

I found a copy of the first Mitchell/Katie book and will read through it:

[www.scribd.com]

Looking at the first sentence, she contradicts herself more than once.

"I invite you all to inquiry, to your own marvelous death of the body (before it dies) as you understand it to be and to be born of who and what you are not to your mind and then to understand what you are in that, as that unknowable known."

She wants you to understand or know who you are, with your mind, as apart from the mind, which is unknowable. It's meaningless.

That is why it is strange. If you understand she is intentionally tying people up in knots it makes complete sense. True.

Quote from Guruphilliac (http://guruphiliac.lefora.com/2009/03/23/byron-katies-school-for-the-work-march-09/page1/)

"If anyone wanted Katie to address a particular concern of theirs, they had a note given to Katie by staff and she would usually, later, ask that person to stand and speak from where they sat. There just wasn't the warm and cuddly thing with Katie going on. In fact, she often did not seem warm at all. I was surprised at often she seemed irritated or short or sharp...and then would come a couple of those famous Workletegook's: "...and I love it that you blah, blah, blah." The messages were often very mixed and, judging from expressions and responses back from the speakers, often very confusing.

Given all the Suggested Don'ts (don't look in a mirror more than once a day, don't wear jewelry or makeup, don't think about your appearance, etc.), most folks looked pretty crummy by Day 3. Katie, however, looked radiant, rested, made up, perfectly coiffed, beautifully dressed at all times. She sat alone on stage beside beautiful flowers, flanked by two large screens that duplicated her image up close...that beautiful facelift...who was her plastic surgeon, honey? She was lit from above in such a way as to make her white hair glow with almost a halo effect. She may have said we were her family, but it was pretty clear we weren't like her. Yes, she was there most of the time when we were in the room, but she didn't take the mindfulness walks with us or eat with us. Even staff did not eat with us; they had their own separate dining room. "

This is pure megalomania if you ask me.

these complex verbal techniques originate in Ericksonian hypnotherapy, but they were created originally to help people, not to exploit them in this manner. (as its being done without any consent).

So when she carefully constructs a sentence like below, to the conscious grammatical mind, to the mind of reality, it is meaningless, and literally cannot be understood. It is nonsensical, like Alice in Wonderland.
That is actually its point, to disable the conscious mind, to induce confusion. But why?

The technique is, right after confusion is created, they come out with the powerful Suggestion for the Unconscious...like how Katie IS you, how she is some type of walk-in Being, FUSING with your identity, etc. (in normal hypnotherapy, the suggestions would be more about your own empowerment and growth, etc, not about how the hypnotherapist is a Walk-in Being...that is severe abuse).

People who are into her, will read those sentences over and over, trying to make sense out of it, which is impossible. they will eventually give-up and Surrender.
Try to read that sentence now, and observe your own mind as you do so. Before you reach halfway through, you are in CONFUSION, which is the intent. There are chapters in advanced books on that subject alone.
Its flipping the mind around on itself, to induce confusion, which triggers a light Trance state. Then the suggestions which come after are more effective.

Again, its a good technique, if used ethically.
but it should NEVER be linked to the hypnotherapist, or their products, or how "some say" they are an enlightened Being, etc. That is severe exploitation, and abusive. Never tolerate that, if you notice them doing that, call them on it right there, and walk out, and don't pay them. Don't let them screw with you for 1 minute. Tell them off assertively, teach them a lesson in ethics.


by the way, concerning Ericksonian hypnotherapy, just picked up the BK book from the library,
I Need You Love-Is That True, (the book literally stinks of cigarettes from the last BK fan! gives you a headache...)
On the cover, huge photo of Byron Katie, and they put her in all PURPLE clothes. Why?
Milton Erickson, who created this hypnotherapy, wore ONLY purple, as he enjoyed purple, that was his signature. Most key books about him have PURPLE covers.
So they even copied his purple color, whoops! That is Michael Katz at work, very original.
Search google for:

Milton Erickson purple


The forward to this book is by John Tarrant. I guess I will save the comments about this guy, what a joke...but...
Is a so-called Zen Master supposed to INSTALL ILLUSIONS in people? Is that his job?
To sell illusions?
Then why is John Tarrant installing illusions about Byron Katie, repeating her manufactured Story, of which he personally knows nothing? Was he there in 1986? Where is his research? Where are the footnotes and proof? There is none?
He just wrote the Story they told him to write?

John Tarrant...alleged Roshi, Director of Pacific Zen Institute and Senior Teacher for Desert Lotus Zen Sangha in Phoenix, AZ. (The Milton Erickson Foundation is also in Pheonix, Az).
How dare a so-called Zen Master Roshi, try to make BK into a myth of some spontaneous enlightened sage from the desert? He picks his words very very carefully, like a cat on a high-wire, like Bill Clinton in a sex-scandal. Is that a Zen Master?

Where did he get his PhD? Notice he does not list that anywhere, and its not listed in the book. A diploma mill?
Can you imagine, a so-called Zen Master, selling illusions, and even delusions?
A real Zen Master is supposed to ruthlessly DESTROY illusions at all cost, not create and sell them, in some type of cross-marketing business scheme, synergy marketing.
He gives his Zen Enlightenment stamp of approval to Byron Katie. So do they sell Zen Enlightenment Certifications now too? How much? anyone can see that Byron Katie is not "enlightened", quite the opposite.

what a joke, what a fraud, imagine a so-called Zen Roshi, doing the opposite of Zen.
A self-proclaimed Zen Roshi, perpetrating illusions, even worse, for mere profit.
What a fraud of Zen, literally, Zen fraud.

sorry to be so blunt, but it really is revolting. Have they no shame, or even a shred of integrity?

Quote
Jay Cruise
Looking at the first sentence, she contradicts herself more than once.

"I invite you all to inquiry, to your own marvelous death of the body (before it dies) as you understand it to be and to be born of who and what you are not to your mind and then to understand what you are in that, as that unknowable known."

She wants you to understand or know who you are, with your mind, as apart from the mind, which is unknowable. It's meaningless.

That is why it is strange. If you understand she is intentionally tying people up in knots it makes complete sense. True.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2009 05:27PM by The Anticult.