Hi friends. A little refresher course, courtesy of this lovely NLP blog.

Anticult will probably find far more treasures there than I can detect.

We can probably assume this description is given of a context in which ME's model is being used by a therapist and client, and the client KNOWS he or she is working with a hypnotherapist.

This is a client--not an uninformed target. Or..dare we say it..an uninformed VICTIM.

Intersted readers are invited to study this and then re-read first person accounts, such as the one by Janaki and material quoted from Carol S.

Quote


[nlpforum.com]

Monday, January 15th, 2007
Milton model

The milton model is a form of hypnotherapy based on the language patterns for hypnotic communication of Milton Erickson, a noted hypnotherapist.[12] The milton model has three primary uses:

Firstly, to assist in building and maintaining rapport with the client.

Secondly, to allow for interpretation in the words offered to the client.

Thirdly, to overload and distract the conscious mind so that unconscious communication can be cultivated.[13]

1. Rapport

The first aspect, building rapport, is done by ‘pacing’ (pacing the clients beliefs) and leading.

Used in isolation the meta model (subject of a separate article on this same blog) can be confronting so the milton model is used to soften it.* It also includes non-verbal rapport which is achieved through matching body posture, breathing or other automatic behaviors.

2. Indirect communication

The second aspect of the milton model is that it is purposely vague and metaphoric and is used to soften the meta model and make indirect suggestions.[14]

A direct suggestion merely states what is wanted, for example, “when you are in front of the audience you will not feel nervous”.

In contrast an indirect suggestion is less authoritative and leaves an opportunity for interpretation, for example, “When you are in front of the audience, you might find yourself feeling ever more confident”.

This example follows the indirect method leaving both the specific time and level of self-confidence unspecified. It might be made even more indirect by saying, “when you come to a decision to speak in public, you may find it appealing how your feelings have changed.”

The choice of speaking in front of the audience, the exact time and the likely responses to the whole process are framed but the imprecise language gives the client the opportunity to fill in the finer details.[15]

(Leading to what we could call 'the illusion of it being voluntary'?--Corboy)

3. Overloading conscious attention

The third aspect of the milton model is that it uses ambiguity in language and non-verbal communication.

This might also be combined with vagueness, which arises when the boundaries of meaning are indistinct. The use of ambiguity and vagueness increases the workload on the conscious mind and gives the unconscious mind the opportunity to prosper*.

*'Prosper' or sprawl, as in an unsupported vine straggling and going to seed? If someone has fragile internal structure due to a history of prior trauma, this internal loosening up might carry risks that outweigh potential benefit to the client. Corboy)

The unconscious will prosper only if this method is used by someone serving the welfare of the client.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2009 10:31PM by corboy.

Bateson, Esalen, and a long list of names.

[74.125.95.132]

Quote


MIND AND NATURE:A Necessary Unity

Gregory Bateson


ACKNOWLEDGMENTS (from Gregory Bateson)

The work and thought leading to this book have spread over many years, and my debts go back to include all that were acknowledged in the preface to my previous book, Steps to an Ecology of Mind. But I have tried to write to be understandable to those who have not read Steps and therefore shall acknowledge here only debts contracted since Steps was published.

Even so, recent favors have been many. In something like chronological order, I have to thank first the fellowship of the University of California at Santa Cruz and especially my friends in Kresge College: Mary Diaz, Robert Edgar, Carter Wilson, Carol Proudfoot, and the secretariat.

And then I have to thank the Lindisfarne Association, whose scholar in residence I was for six months of the writing of this book. Bill Irwin Thompson, Michael Katz, Nina Hagen, and Chris and Diane Bamford were hosts who combined generosity with brains. Without them, there would have been no book.

Similarly, in the last stages of writing the book and following severe medical adventures, Esalen Institute took me in as guest, permitting me to combine writing with convalescence. I have to thank Janet Lederman, Julian Silverman, Michael Murphy, Richard Price, and many others. Both at Esalen and at Lindisfarne, my debt is really to the total community.

Early in 1978, I underwent major surgery and was warned that time might be short. In this emergency, Stewart Brand and the Point Foundation came to my aid. Stewart made it possible for my daughter Mary Catherine to come from Tehran and spend a month with me in California working on the manuscript. Her employer in Iran, the Reza Shah Kabir University, generously gave her a professional leave. The first five chapters of the book owe much to her clarifying criticism and sheer hard work. I also thank Stewart for publishing parts of the manuscript in Co-evolution Quarterly and for permitting republication here.

Two students of mine have been active and constructive critics, Rodney Donaldson and David Lipset; many others, by listening, have helped me to hear when I was talking nonsense.

My editor, Bill Whitehead, and agent, John Brockman, have patiently nagged me into getting the book written.

My secretary, Judith Van Slooten, did much of the drudgery and helped compile the index, and many others at Lindisfarne and Esalen and along the way have helped.
Finally, my wife, Lois, stood by, criticized and appreciated, and bore patiently with my varying excitements and depressions as the ideas came and went.

Yes you are right Anticult. The Zen and ericksonian stuff got me. I'm having difficulty with Katz but still looking into it.

In the meantime, there was a recent interview (march 2, 2009) with Stephen Mitchell discussing Katie which is rather embarrassing at times. Especially his trying to skirt the issue of romance. He is trying to portray her as having a deep knowledge of eastern philosophies without having read any of them. Almost as if by divine intervention. It also mentions Katz 'discovering' Katie:

"Yes, I've been known to put people to sleep. [Laughs] My wife saves on sleeping pills because of my voice."

"[Meeting Katie] certainly wasn't anything sexual." I had to laugh.

"I have to say that I'm delighted that Katie is so illiterate. She knows nothing about Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism. The first few months that I was with her, it would make me chuckle, even laugh out loud sometimes, hearing these things coming from her mouth that were almost exactly verbatim from some old sutra or Upanishad."

"Well, first I want to say that while it’s true that I "co-wrote" them, they are really Katie's books and Katie's words. I was just the midwife. We like to say that I translated her into English. [Laughter] But really, it's translating the spoken word into the written word. And, she's the only person I've translated who is not dead. [Laughs] Though she might say that she's not alive either."

[www.scottlondon.com]

I just wanted to drop this into the thread.
It important to remember that Dr. Milton Erickson was probably a genius, in the classic sense, and he truly helped a lot of people, for modest cost. He was the real deal, not a saint, just a MD and a psychiatrist, and a hypnotherapist and teacher.
A person could spend years studying what he did, and its fascinating, and as complex as Mozart.
It does appear that his goal was to help regular people to function better and adjust to life and reality. So if that form of metaphorical, Storytelling Teaching Tales, conversational hypnotherapy is used by an ETHICAL and professional hypnotist, it can help people. (there is lots of info in this thread about it). Even though modern hypnotherapists identify themselves as such, they still are doing things without your awareness.

Its just like therapy. A good, ethical, decent therapist can help you, and won't abuse the Transference power, that makes some of their clients cling to them like Mommy.

But a selfish therapist, a sick therpist, an unregistered and unlicensed therapist, can and will use their power not to help the client, but to help themselves. To addict the client to therapy, pay more money, even sex, etc. (many so-called 'life coaches' do the same thing).

So its really the same with Ericksonian hypnotherapy and even NLP. They are both incredibly complicated, and seem to have both started with good intentions.
Its just that later on, various greedy seminar leaders, have taken parts of it, and warped it into a way to get people to pay-out huge amounts of cash instantly, create confusion, overwhelm the conscious mind, etc. Its an abuse of PARTS of it. Hypnotherapy converted to ruthless SALES.

For example, supposedly Byron Katie had told some of her people that...after the alleged cockroach incident, that she did a lot of WORKSHOPS in order to "find a language to express" what happened to her!
Well guess what? In that area of the country, all of the "workshops" had incorporated many of these techniques into them, and they all copied off eachother. This is where all of the Byron Katie LGAT techniques would have come from, she didn't think them up, they are standard techniques many people use. LGAT [skepdic.com] She combined them in her own way, adding things like streetwalking with no money. But even that is a copy, as there were LGAT's where they take your purse/wallet and then you have to cross the country with no money, etc. Its all standard stuff, not magic. That is another study in itself, and perhaps the most important. There needs to be a TV documentary series about LGAT's!!

So BK could have picked up a lot of this stuff in all those workshops she took in the early years. She obviously is very talented at it. Some people study these methods for 20 years, and they still can't really pull them off. But some others are naturals, and learn quickly.
This thread has shown many DIRECT connections between BK and ericksonian hypnotherapy, one of the most telling was the "cactus" story, which is a DIRECT COPY. [forum.culteducation.com] Anyone in that field would recognize that right away, that is why the A Cry in the Desert book was killed, there are many clues in that book.

So BK is not doing pure or classic versions of any of these techniques, they have all been customized in her own way. But there are very obvious links, even going back to the Handshake Induction [forum.culteducation.com] which Carol Skolnick described, before it was taken off the internet. Too many clues in there, one assumes...

Again, its the abuse of the powerful techniques which is the problem, and the attempt to be clever and conceal them, and use them on innocent people for personal financial advantage. Its almost unspeakable that people would be heartless enought to do that so ruthlessly, so smugly, and with such arrogance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2009 06:32AM by The Anticult.

one other thing before it slips away..
Janaki has a wonderful detailed recollection of how her conversion to Byron Katie happened. What's wonderful is that Janaki does not appear to know what "hypnosis" is, but her description could be in a textbook!
Put it this way, if you are getting "tunnel vision", and things are moving in "slow motion"...that's a clue!
:-)
Yes, there are people who know how to induce "trance" like this on people in minutes, or seconds.

02 - Meeting Katie [janakisstory.wordpress.com]

First off, check it out. Janaki's long term friend from Muktananda who was with BK...called her up WHILE BK was in Amsterdam, and he INSISTED repeatedly she go to the BK workshop. He then even gave her BK's number, and appears to have offered a media invterview. BK then basically deceived Janaki into thinking she was getting an interview, but she was really going to a workshop, which she said she didn't want to attend. (notice the trickery at play, even back in 1996)

So what is this so far?
Its obvious that BK needed someone to manage her stuff out in Amsterdam and europe as it was growing, and BK's friend knew Janaki, and obviously had told BK all about her, and how she worked for Muktananda, etc.
BK would have thought...PERFECT! Janaki's for me!! Janaki is mine!

ok, so Janaki gets misled to go to this BK workshop under the false pretence of an interview.
What happens?

QUOTE: "I met Katie. ... Before the program started we sat close to each other, there was a buzz going on in the room, as people were still coming in and getting their tea. Our eyes met and locked. Very slowly it appeared as if everything around me slowed down and then came to a full stop. Like in a movie, when they do a flash back of someone’s dream. The noises faded into the background and the room started to fall away. Then everything else started to fall away, her face, her body, everything except the eyes. We stayed like that to what appeared a timeless moment, and it probably lasted for at least 15 minutes."

This is CLASSIC stuff. Katie had plenty of previous info on Janaki from her close friend, she knew about Muktananda, and she had done this many times before. Even back into 1996, BK was using the old "eye-stare" method to induce hypnotic and trance states.
What is hypnosis? Its basically a "focussing of attention", look it up! So Janaki is describing going into a hypnotic "trance". Its not mystical, its a natural human state, you go into one sometimes driving, etc. But people become more SUGGESTIBLE in this state, and that state can be induced in many ways. Experts can induce it in seconds, exactly as was done here.

Right after this, Katie starts making powerful Suggestions to Janaki in the wroskshop, she took her out for a "private walk" at lunchtime, and is started Inducing Confusion, doing more suggestions, etc.
So Katie had targeted Janaki, of course.

Then Katie gets into the Baba Transference process.

QUOTE: "My friend had told me that she loved to hear stories about Baba, so I told her about my life with him, about my love and devotion for him. ... But I told her how I had loved his physical form, and how I missed having that. She stopped and turned to me. Her face very close to mine. She looked into my eyes and put her hand on my cheek and she said: ‘my thought is, I am here now’.

Notice that Katies LOVES to hear about Baba, and her love and devotion? What is that? While the client talks about her Guru, the hypnotist is able to elicit the structure of her belief system, and the images, triggers, etc. This is the most powerful information one can collect...and then...

RIGHT THERE, is Byron Katie doing the Baba Transference INSTALLATION, Install the Guru, she even added a cheek-touch, eye-stare, verbal suggestion...I AM HERE NOW. Classic hypnotic language pattern.
In the future she can re-trigger that same experience, with the same cheek-touch, eye-stare, and phrase. Classic stuff. That is even NLP Anchoring, timing the touch. (yes, people do study and practice this stuff very carefully!!)

QUOTE: "That afternoon in the workshop, Katie was speaking. I was sitting on the floor, staring at her beautiful face. I can’t remember what she said, but I know I had never heard such words before. ... Then she straightened her back and said, ‘I haven’t been in her presence for a long time’. All hell broke loose inside of me. In that moment Katie became Baba Muktananda incarnate, and I was back with my Guru."

So again, our friend Janaki is happily in a deep altered state, trance, which was induced by Katie. BK keeps reinforcing the suggestions over and over. Even using Artfully Vague language, like..
‘I haven’t been in her presence for a long time’.
Again, brilliant. The subject fills in the details herself.

This is very high levels of skill be displayed by Byron Katie. And this was back in 1996, so even back then she had it down.
Don't need to take this at face value.
Take the text of the story, and take out the names. And then send it to a legit hypnotherapist, or take it to one, and ask her/him, to explain it to you. Its very standard stuff. But very well executed.

So its all there described in Janaki's blog.
Notice the similarities to the conversion of Carol Skolnick, in her paper, "Going to Work Naked: My Journey to Byron Katie".

She TARGETS people, gathers intelligence, pre-frames them, talks on the phone, meets them, induces trance states, creates confusion to overwhelm the conscious mind, asks question to collect information, inserts powerful suggestions, creates Guru Transference, more suggestions, and on from there.
The key is to pick people with a dead Guru they are longing for!
Notice how many senior BK people have come from previous Guru's?

and there are some Byron Katie facilitators who are also trained hypnotherapists, as detailed earlier in the thread.
So, obviously, they know exactly what they are doing. Its not easy to do that stuff, it takes years of practice and hard work. But some people have natural talents, and can learn it quickly.
But the process is quite obvious, even with the covert methods, and the link above describes it in detail.

This is not just about Byron Katie, but about Guru's and especially Anti-Guru's of all stripes, who are doing versions of this.

The lesson is EDUCATION about these methods. Then you notice them, and can figure out what is happening. But also, there are people who are so advanced, that its almost impossible to see what they are doing, except for people who are trained. Many will even put out false clues, to distract from what they are really doing. For those folks, people and life are a big chess game, and the goal is CHECKMATE.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2009 07:28AM by The Anticult.

here is a wonderful bedtime Story for the kiddies...

Once upon a time, there was a story, that after Stephen Mitchell entered the scene, and they decided that A Cry In The Desert and Losing The Moon would not be reprinted, and that "someone" once stayed up for 18 hrs, ripping up by hand every last copy of those damn dirty books.

You see, as speculated earlier in this thread, its obvious those books were bought back and destroyed, as they are selling as used paperbacks for over $150-$200 a copy. They were bought back, and destroyed, obviously.

Its obvious they were suppressed, as the Story in those books, does not exactly add-up with the current official story. This has been detailed in this thread, in many ways, not just the Nazi stuff.

Of course, anyone can find out for themselves, as both of those books, A Cry In The Desert and Losing The Moon, appear to be freely available on the internet and torrent networks, as scanned PDF ebooks.

check out rule #1 below.
Thou shalt not criticize The Work, which means BK/SM, or any of it, or their inner circle.

This is why you will never hear one word of criticism, or even analysis from any of "certified" facilitators, or anyone who might want to be one someday. This is why even when asked, they literally won't say one word that BK might not like. As if if gets back to the mothership, and if you said something BK/SM don't like, you are toast.

Even if you have gone through the process for 6 years, and have paid massive amounts of money to get "certified", if you say anything the criticizes The Work or BK/SM, you're finished. All it takes is one word from the top, and you lose 90% of your clients.
Your "certification" can be revoked at any time, for any reason, and is renewed yearly.

Even if some other BK insider doesn't like you, or whatever, and spread some false nonsense about you, that could end your career. So everyone would be walking on pins and needles, afraid to make a mistake.

So all those "certified" people at the top, are 100% controlled "voluntarily", that is, if they want a career at BK, which they may be totally dependent on due to the debt incurred getting there, divorce, etc..
No person should ever get the BK "certification" as its nothing more than complete powerlessness to BK. Why not take that money, and go back to school, and get a real license in something?
The more money and time you put into BK "certification", the more powerless and dependent you become on that system. You're locked in.

BK has 100% power. You have 0%. Literally.

Checkmate.



[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
Meadow
Code of ethics/copyright and trademark agreement as people are required to sign when they do the certification workshop or when they want to log into the institute for the work forum. Guests can however enter the open forum without signing this.

...
The Work of Byron Katie
Code of Ethics and Trademark/Copyright Agreement

Before using the Institute for The Work Community Center, please read the following and click
the button at the bottom of this page.

Professional Conduct Agreement

1. I agree to conduct myself in a manner that reflects positively upon The Work, and I will
not engage in conduct or make statements that may negatively affect another facilitator
and/or The Work.
....

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2009 12:10PM by The Anticult.

cough cough...it seems that part of being an adult, is realizing there are plenty of people on this little planet, who will twist words, fabricate, and outright lie their asses off, to make a few 10's of millions.
Some of them sell aluminum siding to senior citizens, some sell new age philosphies to the masses.

There are even "philosophies" they pretend to buy into, in which "truth" doesn't exist, its all just a Story.
So I could say I was born out of a donkey's ass on Uranus before I was moved to Atlantis by a robot, and that is as "true" as any "lie".
Hey, they are even telling Tall Tales, which are in some ways less extreme than many new agey "religions", so they would feel self-righteous about it.

They know the foundation of human consciousness is Story-making, and constructivism.
Its all just a "Story"...so just make it all up, Tall Tales...
(by the way, that is a common method in Ericksonian hypnosis, they are called Teaching Tales...but in those cases you don't pretend they are factual)


It reminds one in a way, of the Gentle Wind Project
[www.culteducation.com]
[www.cs.cmu.edu]
hubby and wife team, who used to sell by "donations" for thousands, little plastic hocky pucks made under directions from space aliens with telepathy. Its really at that level.


In reality, there is such a thing as reality-testing and facts, and evidence. Nothing is 100%, but it lies on a continuum of increasing accuracy. Epistemology.
And there is such a thing a lying. Never trust people who teach there are no such things as lies...that's a lie!

Quote
Jay Cruise
Yes you are right Anticult. The Zen and ericksonian stuff got me. I'm having difficulty with Katz but still looking into it.

In the meantime, there was a recent interview (march 2, 2009) with Stephen Mitchell discussing Katie which is rather embarrassing at times. Especially his trying to skirt the issue of romance. He is trying to portray her as having a deep knowledge of eastern philosophies without having read any of them. Almost as if by divine intervention. It also mentions Katz 'discovering' Katie:

"Yes, I've been known to put people to sleep. [Laughs] My wife saves on sleeping pills because of my voice."

"[Meeting Katie] certainly wasn't anything sexual." I had to laugh.

"I have to say that I'm delighted that Katie is so illiterate. She knows nothing about Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism. The first few months that I was with her, it would make me chuckle, even laugh out loud sometimes, hearing these things coming from her mouth that were almost exactly verbatim from some old sutra or Upanishad."

"Well, first I want to say that while it’s true that I "co-wrote" them, they are really Katie's books and Katie's words. I was just the midwife. We like to say that I translated her into English. [Laughter] But really, it's translating the spoken word into the written word. And, she's the only person I've translated who is not dead. [Laughs] Though she might say that she's not alive either."

[www.scottlondon.com]

by the way, this isn't about just doing a smack-down of the subjects in this thread.
There are many, many Gurus and Anti-Gurus out there these days, doing very similar things.
Similar LGAT seminar structure, similar corporate structure, using non-profits, contracts, sales-tech, etc

so virtually all of the techniques can be applied to other groups and gurus. They use very similar methods, but just with different wardrobes, and practices, and philosophies.
But the techniques of controlling large groups of people are very similar.

Thanks for that.

I found a download for Losing the Moon PDF without using a torrent program. It doesn't show up on the US copyright catalogue so it may not have been registered.

[www.4shared.com]

There appears to be two versions of 'A Cry In the Desert'.

One published december 1, 1996 by "Work Foundation Inc." which was registered in New York (march 20, 1996) and another by Byron Katie International Inc. which was registered in california in 1999. The second version lists Stephen Mitchell as editor and is not on the copyright catalogue either. That is unless the following link is an error:

[search.barnesandnoble.com]

I had to download this twice. But here is the original for a lot less than $120.

[beta.nakido.com]