Jeezus, what a horrifying story. I was particularly aghast at this part: "I felt no more connected to my adorable toddler than my china, and nearly passed out when I realized this."

Not surprising she ended up on antipsychotic medication.

It's unfreakingbelievable what Byron Katie is getting away with.

You are right, Anticult. It's mind-rape, soul-rape.

Some folks may have thought that there was some "exaggeration" of what was being done by Byron Katie, going back 100 pages in this thread. Its not an exaggeration. Its reality based on factual analysis.
For those who have been trained in these methods for many years, its blatant, what is being engineered into these people's minds without their awareness.

And it gets far more extreme, on the inner circle. That "story" from the inner circle about Byron Katie and Stephen Mitchell drinking the poison cocktail and committing suicide at a party...
[forum.culteducation.com]
"they would throw a party, invite all their close friends and both drink a death cocktail. "

One assumes that is just another deep persuasion tactic by Byron Katie to get supreme loyalty from her closest inner circle. She wants her inner circle to love her more than their own lives, for loyalty, etc. That is a common tactic with Gurus like this.

But if its not, if she is mentally disturbed enough to really do what is said in that story, that is a re-enactment of other group suicides in cults, like Jonestown, and many others.
There are certainly quite a number of her inner circle, who would also drink that death cocktail out of loyalty to Byron Katie, if she did it.

But regardless, she wants that level of fanatic devotion from her inner circle.
And as far as a metaphor in hypnotic storytelling, the entire Byron Katie process, is like a drinking a poisoned cocktail at a party.
(But there is no way someone like Stephen Mitchell would do that, gimme a break, if she passed away, he would just keep cranking out BK books from recordings, and remarry the next wife number _______. Business as usual).

Quote
helpme2times
Jeezus, what a horrifying story. I was particularly aghast at this part: "I felt no more connected to my adorable toddler than my china, and nearly passed out when I realized this."

Not surprising she ended up on antipsychotic medication.

It's unfreakingbelievable what Byron Katie is getting away with.

You are right, Anticult. It's mind-rape, soul-rape.

Chapter 33 of Janaki's blog:

The End of Suffering

‘The end of suffering’ brings me to my own personal loyalty conflict that I have been experiencing towards Katie for several years. I would hold back when addressing this, because I didn’t want to contradict her publicly.

I find it highly misleading to promise people ‘The End of Suffering’. It is a sublime marketing phrase. As I am typing this, I can almost hear Katie say, ‘not to end it forever, just for now’. Wonderful words, and they still hold a promise of a lifetime of everlasting joy.

Katie says that The Work isn’t about improvement and you shouldn’t do it with any other motive than the love of truth. For a long time I would faithfully repeat this, however I can see now that saying the only motive is the love of truth, is the same as saying it will bring you the end of suffering, only with more evasive and misleading words.

Even though answering the questions will bring about a relief in suffering; suffering will continue to arise. You may learn to look at it in another way that is more productive, you may learn to deal with it in a way that is less self-destructive, but it will arise.

I object therefore to the way The Work is being promoted on Katie’s website. This is what it says about The School: ‘This is the ultimate inner adventure. Unlike every other school on earth, this one isn’t for learning-it’s for unlearning. You’ll spend nine days losing the fear-based stories you’ve innocently clung to all your life’.

I have heard Katie talk about a planet without war through ending the war inside of you. I have heard her talk about the end of violence. I look at nature and I see violence. Are we going to end earthquakes and tornadoes and tsunamis?

Quote
freedom fighter
I have a theory why people don't understand or don't want to understand cult brainwashing. It's exhausting.

It's a long drawn out process to brainwash a group of people and it's about as long and drawn out to undo what has been done.

It's been over 15 years since I've gotten away from the group that screwed my family. I am still exhausted from trying to undo what has been done.

I have found in general that not many are interested in seeing or hearing about the deep, horrible problem of cults that exists in this world.

You make a very poignant point.

To make matters worse cult members can be portrayed by the media as mindless zombies who were scammed by a used car dealer for the thousandth time. The reality is not that simple. It might be beneficial to drive this message of how profound the techniques used by cults actually are and the significant impact they have on cult members.

I also agree that this can have a lifelong affect on cult members which is often downplayed. I was in a cult for a relatively short period of time and like you I find that some aspects, not specific to belief, cannot be erased. My former guru used to joke that his cult should have a warning label because once you learn his philosophy you can never find enjoyment in the world again. That may be a little extreme, but cult leaders are aware they are causing serious damage to a person's mental and physical well being.

Thank you for sharing your ideas.

Turnaround. Things you believe to be true are now the opposite. Disassociation in the making. I can just hear "Is that true? Is that really true?"

Is her name backwards?

Was Byron Katie really in a halfway house? Is that really true?

Hope House in LA conveniently closed down so there would be no way to confirm it. She was living in the attic of the halfway house and a cockroach ran across her foot and she realized "The Work". Magic cockroaches.

Sketchy background. Non-sectarian, but based in religion. Uses a pseudonym. Secret meetings. Confidentiality agreements. No training but has travelled the world for 17 years as a quasi therapist, counsellor and religious leader.

Former alcoholic, twice divorced, three children.

Husband is a Yale graduate, religious scholar and translator. Published versions of Bhagavad-gita and Genesis. Practicing zen buddhist since the early 1970's under Zen Master Seung Sahn who came to the west in 1972 and began opening Zen Centers.

Katie's literary agent and collaborator Michael Katz:

Michael Katz - Praticing zen buddhist. Long time student of Suzuki Roshi (San Francisco 1960s Alan Watts fame) and of Gregory Bateson (Inventor of NLP, Double bind : Schitzophrenia)

Also worked with John Tarrant and Wayne W. Dwyer:

John Tarrant - Tasmanian Zen teacher and current director of Pacific Zen Institute in Santa Rosa, California (hawaiian Robert Aitken's ashram)

Dr. Wayne Dwyer - Maui personal development guru

Zen, hinduism, christianity, meditation, Watts, Aitken, Bateson. I'd suggest Byron Katie is a nobody. Trained in thought reform. A frontwoman basically.

Known location of her organization is Ojai, California? Her address in Ojai is worth just over a million dollars.

"The Work of Byron Katie Foundation" 2000 (dissolved)

Cannot find "The Work Foundation" registration.

Her website thework.com was created in 1996 although Byron Katie International, Inc. was registered in '99. What was her organization registered as prior to this? Address of the BKI business is Tucson, Arizona.

Process server for BKI is Steve Ridgeway of Ridgeway & Warner Accountants Santa Barbara. Same accountant firm is listed as a contact on both sites thework.com and blog byronkatie.com.

Why would she use her accountant for contacts?

I heard someone claim that in some states BK SHIT is being offered in some states as Continuing Education credits.

We need to research this.

The person seemed to assume that if something was offered as CE credit, that meant the method was okay to use as a resource for clients.

If BK crap is being offered as CE credit, that means someone on the review board for that particular state is snoozing on the job.

But if true, it has a far more worrisome meaning--it means therapists cannot automatically trust that just because something has been accorded CE accreditation by their state, that it is beneficial---or even that it is harmless.

If it is actually true (research this someone!!) that BK stuff is good for CE credits for professional care providers, that means something potentially harmful has slid under the accreditation radar in that particular state.

It also means that in that particular state, a health care professional cannot trust the CE process and had better be able to do his or her own literature reviews and background checks on ANYTHING offered for CE.

Lemme tell you, not all therapists know how to do this..or if they were trained to do it, are willing to continue doing this after graduation.

Too many working therapists are not trained to do their own literature reviews and dont understand they are high value recruits for entrepreneurs/euses who have not been willing to take on the responsiblity of getting licensed.

The therapists who did get licensed and are carrying the malpractice insurance (unlike BK)..they are the ones to take the rap if a client feels harmed and registers a complaint.

Someone needs to do some research and find out if BK crap is actually on offer for CE credit in any state.

And I can tell you some states with formerly excellent licensing standards are now being clobbered by the recession and that means folks being let go or not replaced when they retire.

Review boards are under pressure and may fail to investigate snake oil and let it get a CE credit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2009 10:56PM by corboy.

Byron Katie International Inc
287 S Montgomery St, Ojai, CA 93023-2762
Contact Phone: (805) 646-6855
URL (web address):
Business Category: Religious Organization in Ojai, CA
Industry (SIC): Religious Organizations


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The ads are not affiliated with Byron Katie International Inc

Business InformationThis company profile is for the private company Byron Katie International Inc , located in Ojai, CA. Byron Katie International Inc's line of business is religious organization.
Company Name: Byron Katie International IncIs This Your Company?
Address: 287 S Montgomery St, Ojai, CA 93023-2762 (Map)
Alt Business Name:
Location Type: Single Location
Est. Annual Sales: $87,000
Est. # of Employees: 3
Est. Empl. at Loc.: 3
Year Started: 2007
State of Incorp:
SIC #Code: 8661
Contact's Name: Byron Katie
Contact's Title: Principal
NAICS: Religious Organizations
Data above provided by D&B.


I found this when I googled 'Byron Katie International Ojai'. It takes you to a website called www.manta.com. $ 87.000 as their estimated annual sales seems a bit low to me.

If it is true that BK crap is actually now being offered as CE credit in some states, that means someone on the review board for those states is snoozing on the job.

Or perhaps, as is now frequently the case, the review board is understaffed due to budget cuts. Things are tough all over the country and professional review boards may not have enough people to do the needed background checks and literature reviews on stuff being vetted for CE accreditation.

If it is true that the CE process in some states is becoming compromised enough to allow even BK stuff to be equated with cognitive behavioral therapy and given CE status in the absence of BK ever being tested in double blind research protocols...this means the CE process is breaking down.

It means therapists cannot automatically trust the CE process any more and cannot be sure they are exercising not only due diligence but full ethos of care, merely by relying on whether something has CE status.

If the CE process in some state has become sufficiently lax to allow untested stuff by non licensed entrepreneurs to get CE certification, it means a vital protective barrier has broken down.

Relying on CE may be sufficient to protect the status of a therapists license and be enough to enable them to prove, merely in the legal sense that they exercised due diligence.

But morally, its not enough for a professional to have his or her ass covered in the legal sense. (Due diligence)

To be a professional means the capacity and willingness to honor ethos of care. To protect your clients from harm.

And if the CE process in your state has grown lax, you can no longer trust the CE process to assist you in achieving ethos of care.

The CE process may be enough to cover a therapists back, legally, but not be enough to achieve ethos of care--not if snake oil modalities are now enjoying CE status.

If the CE process in ones state has broken down, a therapist who practices in that state has been abandoned by the organization that is supposed to oversee quality control.

A therapist determined to achieve ethos of care cannot rely on just CE cetification when choosing courses to take.

That therapist has to now do his or her own background checks--on the persons offering the courses, and then the modalities, to see if the modalities have been trough double blind research and have a better than random impact on subjects' well being and long term amelioration of symptoms.

A therapist determined to achieve the highest standard cannot just trust the CE process. One has to be able to do his or her own literature reviews and be wary of offer methods marketed by charming people who have not themselves taken the trouble to get licensed, dont carry malpractice insurance, dont safeguard particpant confidentiality the way working therapists must do, and who did not put their material through double blind research protocols.

If it is actually true (research this someone!!) that BK stuff is now given CE credits for professional care providers in some states, that means something potentially harmful has slid under the accreditation radar in those states.

It also means that in those particular state, a health care professional cannot trust the CE process and had better be able to do his or her own literature reviews and background checks on ANYTHING offered for CE.

Lemme tell you, not all therapists know how to do this..or if they were trained to do it, are willing to continue doing this after graduation.

Too many working therapists are not trained to do their own literature reviews and dont understand they are high value recruits for entrepreneurs/euses who have not been willing to take on the responsiblity of getting licensed.

The therapists who did get licensed and are carrying the malpractice insurance (unlike BK)..they are the ones to take the rap if a client feels harmed and registers a complaint.

Someone needs to do some research and find out if BK crap is actually on offer for CE credit in any state.

And I can tell you some states with formerly excellent licensing standards are now being clobbered by the recession and that means folks being let go or not replaced when they retire.

Review boards are under pressure and may fail to investigate snake oil and let it get a CE credit.

Right now, I have this list of questions one had better be able to ask when interviewing a therapist.

And...the kicker is a serially abused person may lack the knowledge, the boundaries and lack the assertiveness needed to ask these kinds of questions

Questions When Interviewing a Therapist

1) Did you do a training analysis? Do you know what countertransferance is, and what your own hang ups are?

2) Do you belong to a consultancy group? Do the members of your group have a variety of religious backgrounds? (You dont want them all to be members of the same fucking cult)

3) Do you know what cults and LGATs are?

4) Do you understand that as a therapist, you are a potential high value recruit for such a set up?

5) Did you go to a clinical program that trained you on the scientist practitioner model?
Did you have to take statistics and research design? Do you remember Cook and Campbells textbook?

6) How many hours a month do you spend reading journal articles?

7) Do you still do literature reviews and background checks on new modalities? Or are you supine and merely trust that if it has CE status, its beneficial or at least harmless?

8) Do you assume that just because it has a CE credential that it is therefore OK? Are you aware a lot of snake oil is directly marketed to therapists and that some of it has
gained undeserved CE accreditation (eg the enneagram, which was propagated in charisma driven encounter groups full of gullible young student therapists who didnt know their asses from holes in the wall?)

9) If you happen to follow a religious leader, can you set limits on that person if he or she tries to get you to use your practice to recruit clients?

Again...the bummer is people who have been abused, especially people who have been serially abused, have a portion of themselves still flash frozen at the age when they were harmed and will not be able to exercise adult assertiveness needed to ask such questions when interviewing a therapist.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2009 11:19PM by corboy.

I think a large part of the problem, is sometimes people into the "spiritual" thing, can be far "too nice" and far to gentle with this difficult material.
For example, in REAL cognitive therapy, its not just about logic(information), and its not about being only "loving" and "spiritual".

Its about having real emotions, and there are many Emotive techniques, that are very powerful.
Many folks in the "spiritual" area seem to get trapped into being afraid of expressing some healthy anger, and getting upset.
To be honest, one cannot imagine how it could be possible to escape from the clutches of Byron Katie, by simple "logic" or by being "spiritual". Its not possible.
These powerful cultic techniques, need to be disputed using every method there is.

It seems the most neglected, other than critical thinking, is using healthy powerful Emotive methods, to set boundaries.
Janaki's analysis, seems to be done in an honest way.
But one will never really escape from that kind of trap, without really connecting to one's own powerful emotional boundaries.

For example, the End Of Suffering by Byron Katie, is not a mistake. BK knows its complete bullshit! Why does she know? Because she is still miserable most of the time, and just play-acts she is not. She knows she is play-acting on-stage.
Also, anyone working in an LGAT knows the LGAT's doesn't work. Why? The same people keep coming back year after year, with the SAME problems! If you work in an LGAT company, its embarrassing, to see the same people, with the same problems. But hey, to them its money.
so personally, as soon as we see a false-claim, its time to speak up, and shout it from the housetops.
I notice below, that she said in the past she "held back".

its very important in these cultic groups, to be emotionally honest and call it as you see it.
Its interesting how so-called "blue collar" people don't seem to get duped as much into these cults.
Why? maybe because they call bullshit bullshit, on the spot!!
only the more "elegant spiritual" folks, are "too nice to speak up".

This happens in SALES as well. Salespeople know, especially with many people, they want to avoid conflict, so they raise a stink in the negotiations, and the customer backs down.
If a salesperson shit stinks, speak up bluntly!
Byron Katie is a salesperson.

Being blunt is very important, that is why personally I am blunt. Gentle flowery words can't work against a cultic structure.
That's my blunt thought!
The End of Suffering is a marketing trick, preying on the deluded fantasy of humans to escape the human condition.

Quote
helpme2times
Chapter 33 of Janaki's blog:

The End of Suffering

‘The end of suffering’ brings me to my own personal loyalty conflict that I have been experiencing towards Katie for several years. I would hold back when addressing this, because I didn’t want to contradict her publicly.

I find it highly misleading to promise people ‘The End of Suffering’. It is a sublime marketing phrase. As I am typing this, I can almost hear Katie say, ‘not to end it forever, just for now’. Wonderful words, and they still hold a promise of a lifetime of everlasting joy.

Katie says that The Work isn’t about improvement and you shouldn’t do it with any other motive than the love of truth. For a long time I would faithfully repeat this, however I can see now that saying the only motive is the love of truth, is the same as saying it will bring you the end of suffering, only with more evasive and misleading words.

Even though answering the questions will bring about a relief in suffering; suffering will continue to arise. You may learn to look at it in another way that is more productive, you may learn to deal with it in a way that is less self-destructive, but it will arise.

I object therefore to the way The Work is being promoted on Katie’s website. This is what it says about The School: ‘This is the ultimate inner adventure. Unlike every other school on earth, this one isn’t for learning-it’s for unlearning. You’ll spend nine days losing the fear-based stories you’ve innocently clung to all your life’.

I have heard Katie talk about a planet without war through ending the war inside of you. I have heard her talk about the end of violence. I look at nature and I see violence. Are we going to end earthquakes and tornadoes and tsunamis?

hey, great research!! That is what we need!

As far as "The Work Foundation" they claim it is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization, and that the federal tax identification number is 87-0559189

If someone is registered with Guidestar, they could access all the financial details for The Work Foundation! It should list salaries, etc...those could be posted in the thread.
[www2.guidestar.org]


Also, did anyone notice the text from the website from a former insider, about the cash in Europe? What would the IRS have to say about that?
[forum.culteducation.com]
QUOTE:
"And then there is the cash. Every single year that she comes to Europe, she collects vast amounts of cash that are given for the donation programs, or tickets that are paid for at the door...Often money was given to staff and friends to take home to the States for her. Some would get up to $10,000 to put into their suitcases, that being the amount you are allowed to carry on your person to the U.S. without having to declare it."

Quote
Jay Cruise
Turnaround. Things you believe to be true are now the opposite. Disassociation in the making. I can just hear "Is that true? Is that really true?"

Is her name backwards?

Was Byron Katie really in a halfway house? Is that really true?

Hope House in LA conveniently closed down so there would be no way to confirm it. She was living in the attic of the halfway house and a cockroach ran across her foot and she realized "The Work". Magic cockroaches.

Sketchy background. Non-sectarian, but based in religion. Uses a pseudonym. Secret meetings. Confidentiality agreements. No training but has travelled the world for 17 years as a quasi therapist, counsellor and religious leader.

Former alcoholic, twice divorced, three children.

Husband is a Yale graduate, religious scholar and translator. Published versions of Bhagavad-gita and Genesis. Practicing zen buddhist since the early 1970's under Zen Master Seung Sahn who came to the west in 1972 and began opening Zen Centers.

Katie's literary agent and collaborator Michael Katz:

Michael Katz - Praticing zen buddhist. Long time student of Suzuki Roshi (San Francisco 1960s Alan Watts fame) and of Gregory Bateson (Inventor of NLP, Double bind : Schitzophrenia)

Also worked with John Tarrant and Wayne W. Dwyer:

John Tarrant - Tasmanian Zen teacher and current director of Pacific Zen Institute in Santa Rosa, California (hawaiian Robert Aitken's ashram)

Dr. Wayne Dwyer - Maui personal development guru

Zen, hinduism, christianity, meditation, Watts, Aitken, Bateson. I'd suggest Byron Katie is a nobody. Trained in thought reform. A frontwoman basically.

Known location of her organization is Ojai, California? Her address in Ojai is worth just over a million dollars.

"The Work of Byron Katie Foundation" 2000 (dissolved)

Cannot find "The Work Foundation" registration.

Her website thework.com was created in 1996 although Byron Katie International, Inc. was registered in '99. What was her organization registered as prior to this? Address of the BKI business is Tucson, Arizona.

Process server for BKI is Steve Ridgeway of Ridgeway & Warner Accountants Santa Barbara. Same accountant firm is listed as a contact on both sites thework.com and blog byronkatie.com.

Why would she use her accountant for contacts?