Yes, blame the victim, nice job. That is what Byron Katie, Werner Erhard, and all the Guru's do for a living.
(Gurumayi of SYDA is a blatant manipulative fraud, by the way)
JJ never blamed BK for everything, she was just pointing out the facts of what happened. If anything, she seemed to overblame herself, for not knowing what was going on sooner. but coming out of cultic situations is tough emotionally, so its time to let her go, and take the focus off her. She is not the focus.
The focus is Byron Katie and her precise methods.
BK is using highly complex techniques, and doing it very well.
And the issue about it being "voluntary" is the biggest scam that Byron Katie pulls.
Here is an example.
Did you know that Jim Jones of Jonestown also had many of his own followers "voluntarily" kill themselves, and murder their own children "voluntarily"? (many were also murdered).
Did you know that Jim Jones, right before he "suggested" hundreds to their deaths "voluntarily" also asked if anyone had any "objections" and let them speak? Its all on tape. [forum.culteducation.com
How did Jim Jones get some of his followers to seemingly "voluntarily" kill themselves?
Why did he ask if their were any objections, and appear to let them speak?
Time to put on your thinking cap.
What does this have to do with Byron Katie and other Guru's?
Jim Jones was a HERO to the local San Francisco society, right up until the day he convinced all his followers to commit "suicide". Politicians/media were against him being investigated, as they were in bed with him, in terms of money and elections. Jim Jones was not some nutjob, he was connected, and he was very sophisticated in the techniques he used to control and manipulate his followers.
So this is the typical bullshit about Byron Katie being "voluntary". That is a legal loophole, to try and protect herself from problems. There is NOTHING VOLUNTARY about the complex social influence she is doing to people.
She actually does many similar tactics as Jim Jones, like making people think she is more than human, getting people to work for free, etc.
One of many others, is she "suggests" people ONLY focus on Byron Katie during her LGAT seminars, and do not read other material, or even talk to family. That is the exact same tactic Jim Jones used, intensive brainwashing.
So no one is suggesting Byron Katie is the new Jim Jones. But she uses many of the EXACT same techniques as he did, as many Gurus do. And Jim Jones was mostly a hero until his last day.
I have no patience for the apologists of the LGAT cult mongers, who try to blame the victims.
These threads are about pointing out the facts.
And if Byron Katie supporters had any personal honesty or honor, they would come on here and explain WHY Byron Katie does all these dozens of tactics on people.
Its not "voluntary", that is a lie, that is a fraud.
If its voluntary, so are the followers who "voluntarily" take their own lives in the name of a cult leader. That "appears" voluntary to people who are ignorant of the facts too.
Just like it appears "voluntary" that they hand over all their money, work for free, have sex on command, etc. And Byron Katie is preparing people to GIVE EVERYTHING almost from her first contact in a book or recording.
The question is EXACTLY how are Guru's able to ENGINEER behaviors and thoughts that APPEAR voluntary, but are engineered by the Guru? Byron Katie engineers all this stuff into people who are at all open to her.
The way out of it is doing what this message board says to do, which is to self-educate.
Byron Katie targets a specific audience with no experience in this area ON PURPOSE. She doesn't target people who have training in these areas.
There is a grave DANGER in just doing The Work to calm down road rage...why? Because The Work is a fucking mental TRAP. Its like saying...what's the harm in putting both feet into quicksand?
What's the harm in a fly stepping into the spider's web? Byron Katie SELF-IDENTIFIES as being the Spider telling the "flies" to come into her web/Parlor. What is the danger or harm in a fly stepping in a spider's web? Getting sucked dry, that's all.
Its disgusting to see people try to whitewash a brilliant thought-reform entry level trap like the Byron Katie 4 Questions and a Turnaround. Its brilliant, as it SEEMS innocuous, it SEEMS "free" and it SEEMS ok. But its not. It sucks people down its own vortex rabbit hole, one thought a time, into books, videos, Hotlines, coaches, LGAT seminars, that go on for 6 years, and longer.
blech. Apologists always give the argument of the self-centered...like..."hey OJ Simpson was always nice to me". Yeah, its only all about you...
.. Carol Skolnick, after having been through the mill with a guru, and would jump ship to another one-it is the difference between whether or not you give up your identity to the group/guru. I did not, but I saw some who did and many of them are probably on the ex-syda boards demonizing gm, which is OK by me, but at first I found it kind of disturbing and didn't understand why anyone would bother, then it started to make sense.
If somebody kinda uses the work occasionally to calm down their road rage or whatever, what's the harm? Just like if somebody chants the Gurugita and feels OK, what's the harm? When people become fanatics in any cult or religion, that is on them, if you bend over backwards to coddle the likes of jj-you are putting ALL the blame on bk and Guruhoocheecooananda, etc, and forgetting that they were not forced to spend $$$ and go to retreats, and hand over their will on a silver platter. Fanaticism has been around a lot longer than Werner Eckhardt and BK...it just seems like some are more likely to fall into the trap than others, that's life.
I hope I don't sound like a total a-hole here, but after reading this entire thread I have very little patience for the so-called victims of LGAT's-what happened to personal responsibility?? On the other hand I do not in any way support the idea that it is cool to mess with the free will of others via stealth mind manipulation.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2009 02:39PM by The Anticult.