Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: February 17, 2009 04:09AM
From the Byron Katie blog:
Katieism: "The Work doesn't help anyone..."
The Work doesn’t help anyone; it’s your answers that help you
She said it herself. The Work doesn't help anyone. If it's your own answers that help then you don't need the Work.
For more on Katie's 'glittering' eyes, people can read the 'Valentine's story' by her husband, Stephen Mitchel, which I believe 'pre-frames' (I hope I am using the term correctly, AC) the kind of experience the Mitchels' want people to have when they meet BK for the first time.
(Note how Stephen Mitchel does not feel any 'personal' love for the woman who would eventually become his wife. In fact, Neale Donald Walshe felt exactly the same way when he met her, it was 'love at first sight' for him too. So I guess she could be married to any old bloke willing to further her agenda ...)
[www.byronkatie.com]
Katieism: "The Work doesn't help anyone..."
The Work doesn’t help anyone; it’s your answers that help you
She said it herself. The Work doesn't help anyone. If it's your own answers that help then you don't need the Work.
For more on Katie's 'glittering' eyes, people can read the 'Valentine's story' by her husband, Stephen Mitchel, which I believe 'pre-frames' (I hope I am using the term correctly, AC) the kind of experience the Mitchels' want people to have when they meet BK for the first time.
(Note how Stephen Mitchel does not feel any 'personal' love for the woman who would eventually become his wife. In fact, Neale Donald Walshe felt exactly the same way when he met her, it was 'love at first sight' for him too. So I guess she could be married to any old bloke willing to further her agenda ...)
[www.byronkatie.com]
Byron Katie and handing over jewelry, watches, wedding rings,
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: February 17, 2009 04:55AM
hmm, good point!
Why why why, are people allowed to wear their expensive jewelry and watches and wedding rings?
Why why o why? Its a mystery.
not.
Because later in the week, when they are deeply indoctrinated, and even "hypnotized" if you will, then they can hand them over to Byron Katie, as has been reported.
Then at some point, these valuables could be taken down to Krazy Harry's Jewelry Exchange and turned into cash cash cash!! wooo-hooo!!!! You can imagine them laughing and jumping on the beds in their penthouse hotel suite with in-suite jacuzzi, as they open their Goodie-Bag of valuable "gifts" from the days seminar...
(free Tip: just put a Cracker Jack ring in the bag as a gift, keep your real wedding ring at home in the safe before the seminar).
Does anyone have any information put out by Byron Katie and BKI BEFORE the seminar, regarding people's watches, jewelry, wedding rings, etc? Do they say anything at all? If so, please post it.
also, when people "give" their valuables, are they issued a tax-receipt for a donation?
Do they sign a paper later about it?
How is that handled?
Why why why, are people allowed to wear their expensive jewelry and watches and wedding rings?
Why why o why? Its a mystery.
not.
Because later in the week, when they are deeply indoctrinated, and even "hypnotized" if you will, then they can hand them over to Byron Katie, as has been reported.
Then at some point, these valuables could be taken down to Krazy Harry's Jewelry Exchange and turned into cash cash cash!! wooo-hooo!!!! You can imagine them laughing and jumping on the beds in their penthouse hotel suite with in-suite jacuzzi, as they open their Goodie-Bag of valuable "gifts" from the days seminar...
(free Tip: just put a Cracker Jack ring in the bag as a gift, keep your real wedding ring at home in the safe before the seminar).
Does anyone have any information put out by Byron Katie and BKI BEFORE the seminar, regarding people's watches, jewelry, wedding rings, etc? Do they say anything at all? If so, please post it.
also, when people "give" their valuables, are they issued a tax-receipt for a donation?
Do they sign a paper later about it?
How is that handled?
Quote
Two..if subjects are told to abstain from makeup and perfume--why doesnt the list also tell them to leave items such as [[/i]b]jewelry[/b] and watches at home?
Why do does the list explicitly tell you to not wear makeup, perfume and not bring your computers and phones--but doesnt also state that subjects must not wear a watch or other jewelry?
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
luthergrunge
()
Date: February 17, 2009 04:59AM
As you wish. I apologize.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Garden of Even
()
Date: February 17, 2009 05:47AM
Byron Katie actually repeat many times at the begining of The School, that the reasons for "the dreaded list" is to take the "niceness" out people, so that they can question their stressful beliefs.
I just found a really far out claim in the school papers. "-The Work gives us freedom to be happy without changnig our circumstances. (After we do The Work, our circumstances change by themselves)" What kind of claim is that??????
I guess I have to rember, to notice, that the following is copyrighted Byron Katie Inc. 2005
THE MORNING WALK
*Meet at 7:00 a.m.
*Walk in silence. As you walk, practice naming the
world-"the scene"-to yourself as if you are God
creating and naming things for for the very first time.
*Announce to the "thing" and to yourself its name in
each moment. As you walk, what do you actually see
right now physically? Name it.
*Stay with "first-generation" thoughts. For example: sky,
flower, insect, tree, cement, shoe, woman.
*As you notice thoughts moving one more generation
away, such as tree with leaves; old beautiful tree; or this
tree would be great to sit under-stop! Just notice.
*Return to simple one-word, first-generation names:
ground, sky, woman, etc.
What do you make of that?
GE
I just found a really far out claim in the school papers. "-The Work gives us freedom to be happy without changnig our circumstances. (After we do The Work, our circumstances change by themselves)" What kind of claim is that??????
I guess I have to rember, to notice, that the following is copyrighted Byron Katie Inc. 2005
THE MORNING WALK
*Meet at 7:00 a.m.
*Walk in silence. As you walk, practice naming the
world-"the scene"-to yourself as if you are God
creating and naming things for for the very first time.
*Announce to the "thing" and to yourself its name in
each moment. As you walk, what do you actually see
right now physically? Name it.
*Stay with "first-generation" thoughts. For example: sky,
flower, insect, tree, cement, shoe, woman.
*As you notice thoughts moving one more generation
away, such as tree with leaves; old beautiful tree; or this
tree would be great to sit under-stop! Just notice.
*Return to simple one-word, first-generation names:
ground, sky, woman, etc.
What do you make of that?
GE
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 17, 2009 06:15AM
More thoughts about tapering caffiene:
Its a major commitment to taper off of caffiene even when you have a week in advance to do it.
I ditched it cold turkey a couple of times to prepare for fasts during my peace movement days, and it sucked. The headaches are vile.
But even doing a taper means you're focusing your mental energy on why you're tapering in the first place--the LGAT.
Think of all the stuff you have to taper from--coffee (including decaff) and the rituals surrounding it.
Tea, chocolate, soft drinks. These things are a major part of most peoples lives.
Now, you can most withdraw from caffiene in about a week (unless your daily caff intake has been high--which, for many persons, it is)
Sincerely tapering off tobacco takes very much longer than a week. Some people who have quit both heroin and tobacco say tobacco is more difficult to kick.
But...if this tapering is done in preparation for an LGAT, you're already creating an LGAT environment around you by that preparatory week of caffeine withdrawal.
You have the LGAT as a focus while enduring the tapering process, even before you've left home to attend the event.
Its a major commitment to taper off of caffiene even when you have a week in advance to do it.
I ditched it cold turkey a couple of times to prepare for fasts during my peace movement days, and it sucked. The headaches are vile.
But even doing a taper means you're focusing your mental energy on why you're tapering in the first place--the LGAT.
Think of all the stuff you have to taper from--coffee (including decaff) and the rituals surrounding it.
Tea, chocolate, soft drinks. These things are a major part of most peoples lives.
Now, you can most withdraw from caffiene in about a week (unless your daily caff intake has been high--which, for many persons, it is)
Sincerely tapering off tobacco takes very much longer than a week. Some people who have quit both heroin and tobacco say tobacco is more difficult to kick.
But...if this tapering is done in preparation for an LGAT, you're already creating an LGAT environment around you by that preparatory week of caffeine withdrawal.
You have the LGAT as a focus while enduring the tapering process, even before you've left home to attend the event.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: February 17, 2009 06:39AM
We need to quiz a CPA about this.
If you might want to donate your family jewels (watch, rings--not testicles, ha, ha, ha!)...and later see if its a tax write off,
First, get those goodies appraised by a professional.
That way, if your CPA tells you that the jewels you adoringly give to a guru are tax deductible, you can then state, with precision, what they're worth----cuz you'll have the appraisers written statement to back you up.
And...oh yes, do get a receipt from the guru while you're at it. Your CPA would need to have that on hand in case you're audited.
from a website:
[www.lectlaw.com]
So if the guru or LGAT event isnt a medical intervention or psychotherapy, then, what is its actual value in real market terms-- and how can its value be quantified in relation to the current market value of whatever jewelry someone might hypothetically donate in a rapture of devotion to this or some other guru, at the climax of the event?
We need a CPA in here.
Current price per ounce of gold as of today:
[www.monex.com]
If you might want to donate your family jewels (watch, rings--not testicles, ha, ha, ha!)...and later see if its a tax write off,
First, get those goodies appraised by a professional.
That way, if your CPA tells you that the jewels you adoringly give to a guru are tax deductible, you can then state, with precision, what they're worth----cuz you'll have the appraisers written statement to back you up.
And...oh yes, do get a receipt from the guru while you're at it. Your CPA would need to have that on hand in case you're audited.
from a website:
[www.lectlaw.com]
Quote
When Goods and Services are Involved
A payment to a charity qualifies as a deductible gift only to the extent that it exceeds the fair market value of the privilege or benefit the "donor" receives in return for that gift.
For example:
* One cannot deduct the full amount paid to a charity for such items as candy or magazines. If the charity charges $10 for a box of candy that normally sells for $8, only $2 can be claimed as a charitable
contribution.
* The purchase price of tickets to a fund raising dinner, circus, or
other meal or entertainment event is not fully deductible. Only the
portion of the ticket price above the value of the meal or entertainment can be deducted for income tax purposes. The same rule applies even if, at the suggestion of the soliciting organization, the donor decides to let the charity give his or her tickets to underprivileged or disabled children.
Likewise, even if the charity refers to the entire purchase price as a
"donation," the portion of the price that reflects the value of the
admission is not deductible.
* Membership dues that merely cover the cost of privileges or benefits
received by the "donor" are not deductible. However, "dues" that actually constitute a contribution for which the donor receives little or no privilege or benefit of monetary value in return are deductible.
* The price of participating in a raffle or similar drawing cannot be
deducted as a charitable donation.
So if the guru or LGAT event isnt a medical intervention or psychotherapy, then, what is its actual value in real market terms-- and how can its value be quantified in relation to the current market value of whatever jewelry someone might hypothetically donate in a rapture of devotion to this or some other guru, at the climax of the event?
We need a CPA in here.
Current price per ounce of gold as of today:
[www.monex.com]
Quote
Gold Bullion $USD $943 oz
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and re-engineering minds, PTSD, suicide.
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: February 17, 2009 06:57AM
The first part is basic silent self-hypnosis.
The next part gets into profound areas.
Psychology has proven humans have "core beliefs" which are simple base-concepts like...
I am _____
People are ______
Life is ______
So she is getting into re-engineering your core beliefs in the way that she wants them to be, with Byron Katie at the center. This is why her core followers, like Carol Skolnick, refer EVERY thing back to Byron Katie, as a BK Imago is sitting there at the center of her core belief structure.
But this is taking it even further. This is going back into labelling core concepts in the mind, like you do as a young child.
She is just OPENING that part of the mind, which labels "Dog" etc.
She can then insert Byron Katie's Business, into that area of your mind.
Also, this starts the process into SOLIPSISM [www.iep.utm.edu] which is Byron Katie professed philosphy. But of course, Byron Katie doesn't REALLY believe in Solipsism, as evidenced by her behavior and contracts and her corporation.
Its complete bullshit.
Solipsism is the mental state people are in, when in a hypnotic trance, like a waking dream state.
So she is just moving people into that mental state, so she can re-program your beliefs.
Like I have said all along, Byron Katie is doing VERY sohpisticated and deep belief repatterning with people. And its being use unethically, as its being done to people without their awareness.
This is why for the people who go whole-hog for Byron Katie, every second word out of their mouth is Byron Katie this, Byron Katie that. She has inserted a Byron Katie Imago at the core of their psyche, as that is good for Byron Katie.
But its bad for you, its an extreme abuse of these methods.
These are the methods to literally break-down and reprogram someone's entire psyche. Never give that power to anyone, ever.
Byron Katie is like an unlicensed back-room plastic surgeon, and she will botch the job, and you may die from the infection, that is no exaggeration.
And BK constantly beats the drum about treating PTSD, and PTSD is highly lethal.
These tools are so powerful, you would have to be borderline to do this to people. You can destroy people with the abuse of these methods and tools.
Run it by any experienced psychologist, they will recoil in horror.
The next part gets into profound areas.
Psychology has proven humans have "core beliefs" which are simple base-concepts like...
I am _____
People are ______
Life is ______
So she is getting into re-engineering your core beliefs in the way that she wants them to be, with Byron Katie at the center. This is why her core followers, like Carol Skolnick, refer EVERY thing back to Byron Katie, as a BK Imago is sitting there at the center of her core belief structure.
But this is taking it even further. This is going back into labelling core concepts in the mind, like you do as a young child.
She is just OPENING that part of the mind, which labels "Dog" etc.
She can then insert Byron Katie's Business, into that area of your mind.
Also, this starts the process into SOLIPSISM [www.iep.utm.edu] which is Byron Katie professed philosphy. But of course, Byron Katie doesn't REALLY believe in Solipsism, as evidenced by her behavior and contracts and her corporation.
Its complete bullshit.
Solipsism is the mental state people are in, when in a hypnotic trance, like a waking dream state.
So she is just moving people into that mental state, so she can re-program your beliefs.
Like I have said all along, Byron Katie is doing VERY sohpisticated and deep belief repatterning with people. And its being use unethically, as its being done to people without their awareness.
This is why for the people who go whole-hog for Byron Katie, every second word out of their mouth is Byron Katie this, Byron Katie that. She has inserted a Byron Katie Imago at the core of their psyche, as that is good for Byron Katie.
But its bad for you, its an extreme abuse of these methods.
These are the methods to literally break-down and reprogram someone's entire psyche. Never give that power to anyone, ever.
Byron Katie is like an unlicensed back-room plastic surgeon, and she will botch the job, and you may die from the infection, that is no exaggeration.
And BK constantly beats the drum about treating PTSD, and PTSD is highly lethal.
These tools are so powerful, you would have to be borderline to do this to people. You can destroy people with the abuse of these methods and tools.
Run it by any experienced psychologist, they will recoil in horror.
Quote
Garden of Even
THE MORNING WALK
*Meet at 7:00 a.m.
*Walk in silence. As you walk, practice naming the
world-"the scene"-to yourself as if you are God
creating and naming things for for the very first time.
*Announce to the "thing" and to yourself its name in
each moment. As you walk, what do you actually see
right now physically? Name it.
*Stay with "first-generation" thoughts. For example: sky,
flower, insect, tree, cement, shoe, woman.
*As you notice thoughts moving one more generation
away, such as tree with leaves; old beautiful tree; or this
tree would be great to sit under-stop! Just notice.
*Return to simple one-word, first-generation names:
ground, sky, woman, etc.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and re-engineering minds, PTSD, suicide.
Posted by:
yasmin
()
Date: February 17, 2009 09:24AM
Unless Byron Katies' work is a non profit organization,I don't think anything you gave her would be a tax write off at all.
Personally if I was going to a seminar where I knew there was a chance that after doing altered state /trance work, someone would be asking me to hand over my jewelry, I'd be wearing plastic. And having huge questions about that persons' integrity..
Heres an interesting video about a guy called Derren Brown demonstrating the "Russian Scam".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-TURhK90_8
Personally if I was going to a seminar where I knew there was a chance that after doing altered state /trance work, someone would be asking me to hand over my jewelry, I'd be wearing plastic. And having huge questions about that persons' integrity..
Heres an interesting video about a guy called Derren Brown demonstrating the "Russian Scam".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-TURhK90_8
Byron Katie (the Work) and Turnaround House confidentiality agreement
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: February 17, 2009 12:54PM
Yes, its very ironic. Byron Katie always hold all the cards, all the power. Its all one-sided, and no matter what happens, everything is 100% your fault, never hers.
So no one even knows what the hell is going on in this so-called Byron Katie Turnaround House.
Its all secret. Where is the oversight?
And how can she operate a Turnaround House, which sounds like a treatment center, when she is not a mental health professional?
What is she turning around? Behavior and emotions and mental health? That's called psychotherapy.
But in-house treatment, is also not psychotherapy? Then what is it?
You can't imagine what could happen to vulnerable people who are immersed 24/7 in the Byron Katie Turnaround House mind-washing-machine. Truly scary.
So no one even knows what the hell is going on in this so-called Byron Katie Turnaround House.
Its all secret. Where is the oversight?
And how can she operate a Turnaround House, which sounds like a treatment center, when she is not a mental health professional?
What is she turning around? Behavior and emotions and mental health? That's called psychotherapy.
But in-house treatment, is also not psychotherapy? Then what is it?
You can't imagine what could happen to vulnerable people who are immersed 24/7 in the Byron Katie Turnaround House mind-washing-machine. Truly scary.
Quote
amiryeti
... and the irony is that people who staff the turnaround house have to sign a document where they pledge confidentiality, if they break this, the document says that Byron Katie or members of their family can sue them.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
bluesky
()
Date: February 17, 2009 01:53PM
I think its really important, if only for her victims sake, to not empower Katie by proxy.
By attributing all this skill and deftness to her, her programs etc...you do actually imply she has some sort of 'special ability' to hypnotize people..when in reality, ANY therapeutic hypnotist will tell you people will only go so far as THEY *choose* to go when it comes to hypnosis...EVEN the simpleminded..even after prolonged induction....the will, often devoid of the conscious self's presence or intent, wins out every time.
So you cant, without prolonged suffering and causal trauma milestones preexistent, simply 'reprogram' a person. You can convince them you have for a while..but even then the natural state of the mind itself will eventually reject any premise that doesn't fulfill the minds obligations to itself.
So by repeating over and over that she can do xyz..is a false and 'katie empowering' statement..no she cant..you can choose to believe she can but in reality SHE CANT do a damn thing - it all happens inside your mind.....that is and unless YOU give her that power and permission to affect you and your thoughts.
Attempting to undermine her and instead empowering her this way, albeit with good intent sure, still leaves you buying into her dynamics, dancing to her tune.. and you end up buying into her program-of-convenience without realizing it.
Reality shows that she's a flim flam woman pure and simple, one who has engaged in a personal psychodrama and uses denial as a means to cope with her traumatic life. She thinks she has learnt something from her experience...contrary to her actions which show she hasn't. She's set herself up a nice little win-win self delusion paradox..she wins if you go..she wins if you don't...so the only way to really stop her is to ignore her entirely...just like John Pearl etc..accept that these kinds of energy and spirit predators are out there...that they come..they go..and the best you can do sometimes is just nod and smile politely..and be the one who passes by following your OWN path.
The bigger problem evidenced here, rather than Katie et al ..is that people are undervaluing their own choices..or are denying them and the responsibility to make them....maybe thats harsh..maybe its just that they simply don't understand the inherent power of or the nature of the dynamics of human choice and so, in denial of their own abilities, become active choosers of the alternative..which is - abdication of choice.
I don't know..I'm no psych. I do know that choice abdication is so common as to be 'normal' in the world...but in the end that does make what Katie et al are doing..a matter of taking personal individual responsibility.
I do know from my own encounter with them, that a lot of it boils down to personal responsibility. If, like I was at the time, you don't have the ABILITY to take it responsibility or be responsible for yourself..you wont know what responsibility is or does and therefore are an easy target for her...if you do have it though, even just a little, you will eventually and naturally reject anyone who tells you not to assume it and its obligations...and so be rejected outright by these groups. The people that stay, as harsh as it sounds, are making the choice to stay....whether I like that or not....they are adults making choices and I have no right to interfere. I can only stand and say ' there's better choices'.
The key for surviving this for me, for being a repellent to them has been to really begin learning about my own choices..where and how I exercise them or don't..and in comprehending what responsibility is and isn't.
I don't give Katie or anyone power over me any more...so they don't have it - simple.
Its not easy but it is simple....they have no ability or means to physically and emotionally 'take my power'.
They can only try to convince me to make choices that suit them not me, and compel me with smoke and mirrors to let go of my power and try to have me believe its gone and in their hands....which is a lie my own mind rejected a long time ago. I wont relinquish that personal authority, to any human, and so they leave people like me alone.
bluesky
By attributing all this skill and deftness to her, her programs etc...you do actually imply she has some sort of 'special ability' to hypnotize people..when in reality, ANY therapeutic hypnotist will tell you people will only go so far as THEY *choose* to go when it comes to hypnosis...EVEN the simpleminded..even after prolonged induction....the will, often devoid of the conscious self's presence or intent, wins out every time.
So you cant, without prolonged suffering and causal trauma milestones preexistent, simply 'reprogram' a person. You can convince them you have for a while..but even then the natural state of the mind itself will eventually reject any premise that doesn't fulfill the minds obligations to itself.
So by repeating over and over that she can do xyz..is a false and 'katie empowering' statement..no she cant..you can choose to believe she can but in reality SHE CANT do a damn thing - it all happens inside your mind.....that is and unless YOU give her that power and permission to affect you and your thoughts.
Attempting to undermine her and instead empowering her this way, albeit with good intent sure, still leaves you buying into her dynamics, dancing to her tune.. and you end up buying into her program-of-convenience without realizing it.
Reality shows that she's a flim flam woman pure and simple, one who has engaged in a personal psychodrama and uses denial as a means to cope with her traumatic life. She thinks she has learnt something from her experience...contrary to her actions which show she hasn't. She's set herself up a nice little win-win self delusion paradox..she wins if you go..she wins if you don't...so the only way to really stop her is to ignore her entirely...just like John Pearl etc..accept that these kinds of energy and spirit predators are out there...that they come..they go..and the best you can do sometimes is just nod and smile politely..and be the one who passes by following your OWN path.
The bigger problem evidenced here, rather than Katie et al ..is that people are undervaluing their own choices..or are denying them and the responsibility to make them....maybe thats harsh..maybe its just that they simply don't understand the inherent power of or the nature of the dynamics of human choice and so, in denial of their own abilities, become active choosers of the alternative..which is - abdication of choice.
I don't know..I'm no psych. I do know that choice abdication is so common as to be 'normal' in the world...but in the end that does make what Katie et al are doing..a matter of taking personal individual responsibility.
I do know from my own encounter with them, that a lot of it boils down to personal responsibility. If, like I was at the time, you don't have the ABILITY to take it responsibility or be responsible for yourself..you wont know what responsibility is or does and therefore are an easy target for her...if you do have it though, even just a little, you will eventually and naturally reject anyone who tells you not to assume it and its obligations...and so be rejected outright by these groups. The people that stay, as harsh as it sounds, are making the choice to stay....whether I like that or not....they are adults making choices and I have no right to interfere. I can only stand and say ' there's better choices'.
The key for surviving this for me, for being a repellent to them has been to really begin learning about my own choices..where and how I exercise them or don't..and in comprehending what responsibility is and isn't.
I don't give Katie or anyone power over me any more...so they don't have it - simple.
Its not easy but it is simple....they have no ability or means to physically and emotionally 'take my power'.
They can only try to convince me to make choices that suit them not me, and compel me with smoke and mirrors to let go of my power and try to have me believe its gone and in their hands....which is a lie my own mind rejected a long time ago. I wont relinquish that personal authority, to any human, and so they leave people like me alone.
bluesky
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