Wow, more good points.

To the trained eye, Byron Katie eyes instantly jump out as hypnotic eyes, almost to the edge of parody. Its like the cartoon....LOOK INTO MY EYES, COME INTO MY PARLOR...she does it on purpose.
Its creepy.

Search Google images for Byron Katie, and you will see her promo photos.
These are all expensive professional photos, costing thousands. They are shooting close-ups of her face, with her gazing into the camera, cocking her head, doing her hand-modelling poses. This is Katie cover-girl modelling, they take hundreds of photos of her.
They have backlights, and bounce-cards to lighten up the eyes. They lighten the eyes with Photoshop, like they do with celebrities these days.

She knows that there are lonely-heart intimacy-starved people out there, and they will gaze into her eyes and "feel a connection". They advertise to tell people to gaze at her pictures and FALL IN LOVE AT FIRST SITE, like Carol Skolnick says she did, for example.

So that is to create FALSE INTIMACY with people. Its false, its not real. Its like emotional pornogaphy.
Hopefully people should know that you should never trust people who FORCE their intimacy on you too quickly, they are players. But they know Love-Starved people need it.

Good point too about Katie NEEDING the adulation at her seminars, that is true.
BK needs the in-person crowd adulation. Like when the lady was on her knees crying before Katie in the parking lot, you can see how bad BK needs and wants that.
Would any person reading this thread ever allow a person to be on their knees before them crying?
No.
But BK engineers it in people. She seems to get off on the power.
But she is not authentic, even in her CD's she is doing a type of Baby-Talk to her listeners, its very detached and artificial.
Its all basically a public persona, a mask, a shield she hides behind. Its too bad so many people fall for it, but that's because they don't understand the techniques being used on them.
They are just too wrapped up in their own feelings in the moment, it seems.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 01:27PM by The Anticult.

Okay lets move on to The dreaded list:

THE DREADED LIST(it is actually called the dreaded list)

You have entered the world of The School for The Work, the School of You. We ask that you not use, consume, or engage in, any of the following:

• outside contact with family or friends, including email and letters
• cell phones, pagers, computers
• television, radio, music
• books, tapes, or magazines (other than The School materials)
• sex, flirting
• alcohol
• caffeine (coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, soda)
• sugar, other than what is served at meals
• food between meals (unless doctor prescribed)
• vitamins or food supplements (unless doctor prescribed)
• non-prescription drugs (unless doctor prescribed)
• perfume, aftershave
• makeup
• promotion or sales of any kind
• Jacuzzi, pool, gym (unless doctor prescribed)


Please deposit all items on this list with the staff. They will be returned to you at the closing session on Xxxday. If you have perishable items, please put them in a separate bag clearly marked as “Perishable”. They will not be returned.

We ask that you attend all the sessions, even if you have to crawl. If you need help to attend, ask for it. We will carry you in. We will have pillows and blankets if you need them. Sleep, be angry, sick, sad or tired within this work space. Throughout The School, please honor the following: Use mirrors only once a day, if at all. Do not share a room with your partner or someone you already know. This is very important.

If you feel need to, please contact your family/ friends/ co-workers to ask them to support you in not communicating with them at all while you are in The School. Please feel free to invite them to the public event on Xxxday

Those with health challenges, follow your doctor’s advise, including remaining on medications. This is a requirement.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 06:37PM by Garden of Even.

Quote

caffeine (coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, soda)
• sugar, other than what is served at meals
• food between meals (unless doctor prescribed)
• vitamins or food supplements (unless doctor prescribed)
• non-prescription drugs (unless doctor prescribed)
• perfume, aftershave
• makeup
• promotion or sales of any kind
• Jacuzzi, pool, gym (unless doctor prescribed)

Subjects according to this list are told to abastainf rom caffiene in any form.

**are they informed of this ahead of time?

Because, if, like many Americans, one has a high daily intake of caffiene, it is very painful to go through caffiene withdrawal if one has to give it up suddenly.

Speaking for myself, the caffiene withdrawal headaches are ghastly.

This man is a psychiatrist and has a blog. In this article entitled 'Worse Than the Flu' he describes what he went through when he was unable to drink his usual ration of coffee. As Dr X wrote:

'Id never not had coffee."

He describes below what happened to him. He at least was in his normal work place and at home.

He was not in a 9 day human potential event where he'd been cut off from coffee and from all his normal routines.

And as you read this..remember--many, many Americans have a moderate to high intake of caffiene. What if they arrive at a 9 day human potential residential deal and are told they cant have coffee? And they dont know what sudden caffiene withdrawal is gonna be like?

Or maybe they do know they cant have coffee during the event, but have never gone without coffee before?

They still may not know how incapacitating caffiene withdrawal can actually be.

Its bad, folks, really bad. I know this for a fact. And here is a first person report from a psychiatrist who went through caffiene withdrawal for 3 days not knowing what it was. He thought he was dying.

[thelastpsychiatrist.com]

(Account is lightly edited for brevity. Feel free to read the entire thing. Its worth reading in case you ever land in a hospital. Make sure to tell them how much caffiene you take each day)

Quote

April 2, 2007
Worse Than The Flu

Here's a little case report, about me, a cautionary tale about working too hard.

I had to go to Chicago for a case. It took three days. It took a lot out of me.

There was the jet lag, and the work, and skipping meals, and sleep deprivation. I barely sleep at home, but all I could get in the hotel was 2 hours/night.

I usually drink about 3 cups of coffee (16 oz each-- so I guess that's 6 actual cups) a day, but with this level of stress and tiredeness I was drinking 4-5. And, dare I admit it, I took a Provigil.

I could feel myself getting sick on the last day. Just get through it, I thought. Sick later. Work today.

I got home, exhausted. The next morning I felt sick, wiped out, achy.

There you go, I said. I have the flu. I struggled through work, taking naps when I could.

As the day progressed, I got worse. Weakness, tiredness, horrible nausea, headache. I gagged at the thought of food, but I forced myself to at least drink Gatorade...

Day 2 came, and I was worse, not better. Not even the same-- much worse. The headache was ruthless. The nausea had become motion sickness-- turning my head was a lunar launch. The arthralgias, bizarrely, had disappeared-- except in my neck, which had become very painful and stiff. I couldn't turn my head well. I could barely walk, I could barely think.

I went to work.

The weakness and lethargy had also changed-- into narcolepsy.

It wasn't weakness-- I was drugged. I fell asleep for only a second at a time, but it overtook me every moment I wasn't active. Driving. Watching TV. Standing at a urinal. On an elevator. During phone calls. I could not stay awake.

Simply closing my eyes would drop me into Stage IV sleep. I could still be talking, but if my eyes were closed I was asleep. And what I said was nonsensical.

I was almost helpless. I took Tylenol. Motrin. Tylenol + Motrin. Nothing. And I could not stay awake.

The head and neck hurt so much that the only solace was sleep, which I couldn't stop anyway.

What kind of flu was this? And something worried me: why didn't I have a fever?

By day 3 I had what can only be described as the worst headache of my life. The nausea was constant.

Worst. Headache. Of. My. Life.

I rarely get sick, I rarely take pain relievers. I do 3 sets of 50 push ups a day. I'm pretty healthy, and I've never been incapacitated. I only say this as background for my next sentence: I was so sick I could not see.

Light hurt me, hurt my head. I could not look at the monitor, or TV. I wanted to be in a quiet, dark room-- asleep. With morphine.

And the medical student in me solved the mystery: headache, stiff neck, photophobia, no fever. I had finally done what I had been threatening to do for so long: I had popped an aneurysm. I thought: so this is how it ends.

Nausea. Headache. Neck stiffness. Exhaustion.

Exhaustion.

Oh my God, could I be in caffeine withdrawal?

As soon as I thought it, I knew that was it.

I couldn't believe it. I'd never felt it before because I'd never not had coffee before. And that first day back, being a little off, I skipped it-- which made me worse, and then the withdrawal hit.

I made some coffee. It smelled like battery acid. I put ice in it and drank it, one cup all at once. I gagged, twice.

Within ten minutes, I was 10% better. In 30 minutes, I was 50% better. In an hour I was 95% cured. From unable to move, to almost complete cure.

Jesus.

The cure was so total, the reversal so profound, that I actually couldn't remember how sick I was. I thought I must have been exaggerating.


So my body reminded me.

Four hours later, I started to feel that motion sickness again. By the fifth hour, I was on the floor again, same stiff neck and headache. And the nausea was worse: the thought of drinking the battery acid again was too much for me.

But I did it. And again, an hour later, I was completely cured.

How "real" is caffeine withdrawal?

Clearly, my own experience takes it out of the theoretical realm.

But what about:the average coffee junkie when he goes to the hospital?

the psych patients who smoke 1 or 2 packs a day, 4 or 5 coffees a day, and get admitted on the unit where it's only decaf and a smoke break a shift?

The case reports of neonates born to heavy caffeine drinking mothers, who went into serious withdrawal. Three neonates had caffeine in their urine! Symptoms include irritability, rigidity, hypertonia and hyperreflexia.

And then there are the kids.

What about all those kids who drink a lot of soda-- say, two cans/d (100mg total)--and maybe sometimes they don't get their dose? One study of such 10year olds found that missing one dose of 100mg made them less alert, had more headache, and performed more poorly on cognitive tasks. But how many parents (or doctors) would have thought about this? Another study also found kids in withdrawal got little headache, but get more myalgias than do adults. Who is savvy enough to attirbute these subtleties to caffeine?

Has anyone else wondered if the prevalence of ADHD doesn't parallel caffeine use and sleep deprivation, especially in kids (kids don't take naps anymore)? And remarked that the main treatments are-- stimulants?

Dr X asked "what about:the average coffee junkie when he goes to the hospital? "

What about the average coffee junkie who attends a 9 day human potential event where caffiene intake is not permitted--and the junkie has never before been through full tilt boogie caffeine withdrawal and has no idea how painful and disabling it can be?

Speaking for myself, the caffiene withdrawal headaches are ghastly. Ive been through several different episodes of withdrawal.

To do a complete caffeine taper and minimize misery, one needs to wean off from the stuff for at least 3 days. If you have a very heavy caffiene intake, you'd need to take a week or two to wean off.

If BK or any other event requires abstention from caffiene, its only fair that prospective subjects be told this well in advance before they pay for registration.

They really should know this two weeks in advance of the school event so that they can be caffiene free and not find themselves tormented by withdrawal symptoms during an event where intimate material is going to be disclosed.

Additional thoughts regarding the list:

Quote

Quote:
caffeine (coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, soda)
• sugar, other than what is served at meals
• food between meals (unless doctor prescribed)
• vitamins or food supplements (unless doctor prescribed)
• non-prescription drugs (unless doctor prescribed)
• perfume, aftershave
• makeup
• promotion or sales of any kind***
• Jacuzzi, pool, gym (unless doctor prescribed)

Does BK and her staff abstain from use of the Jacuzzi, pool and gym?

So if BK is to be fair, she and her assistants should also make a public promise to abstain from the gym and sauna and jacuzzi, just like the subjects. If they're to be challenged to push their comfort levels, she should demonstrate that this is being done.

Exercise is valuable for tension reduction and as a mood elevator.

If someone is accustomed to exercise and is cut off from it, this can have consequences.

Years ago I met a man wearing a cast and on crutches. He'd been injured in either a riding or cycling accident, I forget which.

He told me that because he was an avid athlete, his treating physician prescribed him an antidepressant, to prevent him from going into a depression due to abrupt cessation of his normal levels of physical activity.

Exercise, and especially outdoors, is often recommended as a mood elevator and as part of treating depression.

Also...if a woman worries about her weight (who doesnt these days?) and gets a sense of agency over her body by going to the gym, and isnt allowed during a BK event to go to gym, she's very likely to fret that she's going to gain weight, get fat, and all sorts of anxiety and shame will be triggered.

And there's BK looking all wiry and athletic--so that will cause the under exercised women in the audience to feel yet more inadequate.

It states subjects are not allowed to wear makeup.

So...does BK lead by example and abstain from makeup during the event?

IF she gets to wear make up but subjects are not, that means her subjects are naked in relation to her.

They will be 'going to work naked.' If you're a woman, makeup can be a very, very important aspect of personal identity. And, without make up, its very much easier for sharp eyed observers to read your facial expressions--you are unmasked.

Unless BK is willing to go without make up during the event, its not fair for this list to require subjects to abstain from wearing it.

And if youre taking orders by someone in make up, and you're not wearing makeup after years of being accustomed to wearing it, the leader in make up gets to stay masked, while you're naked with your facial and eye expressions easily read.

Two..if subjects are told to abstain from makeup and perfume--why doesnt the list also tell them to leave items such as [[/i]b]jewelry[/b] and watches at home?

Why do does the list explicitly tell you to not wear makeup, perfume and not bring your computers and phones--but doesnt also state that subjects must not wear a watch or other jewelry?

That should be a Fifth Question.

If BK gets to wear makeup and subjects cannot--why? Thats a Sixth Question.

If BK and staff can use the hotel facility gym and jacuzzi and subjects cannot--why?

Thats the Seventh Question

Does BK and her staff get to use caffiene during the event? That's Question Eight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 11:38PM by corboy.

After re-reading the waiver, and the postings regarding the content, I visualized how it might be regarding just the coffee angle. Having only been on one-day seminars and a couple week-end retreats, I had trouble imagining something 9 days long, with all those restrictions. For me, it would actually be something like torture. With all the restrictions, and I am sure sleep-deprivation, induced confusion and the physical changes and withdrawals, one would very likely become quite 'high', to use a word. It seems to me that that would play right into how BK would like you to be, since it would make you measurably more susceptible to the indoctrination. Also, you would probably need more of her "medicine" by the end of the seminar, since you would literally be a wreck! Sounds kind of diabolical, doesn't it?

qd

You are, in good time, advised to give up caffine a week prior to the School. (it is not a surprise when you turn up)

Byron Katie does wear makeup, and also many of the "students" wore makeup.

What BK is doing or not doing during The School, I dont know! I think she does whatever pleases her ;-)

I didnt give up smoking, and didnt hide it. No one ever mentioned that.. Maybe they didnt care because they could see, that I was not an easy target anyway???

Good. Thank GOD people know ahead of time about the caffiene issue.

Those headaches are no joke.

I am not a Katie apologist nor an apologist for any of the New AGE saviours or Messiahs. I have done a pretty thorough Bible read and and am fairly well read in most of the cult, occult and accepted religous practices of this world. I am merely saying though that we must vet everyone including the Bible thumpers that say that Jesus is the way because they say it is so. I have strong spiritual beliefs based on personal experience but this in no way make me a mouthpiece for Jesus or God and I don't believe Jesus needs to be spoken for or "sold" to anyone either. This reeks of spiritual EGOISM which is one of the wolves in sheeps clothing No?

luthergrunge:

This thread topic is Byron Katie.

If you wish to participate here please stay on topic.

Otherwise start another tthread under the relevant heading.

No preaching or teaching religious beliefs, per the rules.

Thanks for this info. Its interesting how the folks who have escaped the BK system, always had a little resistance they never let go of. The kept their wedding ring, they kept smoking, etc. They defied the Byron Katie system, and so it never REALLY took hold of them for years and years.

You are going to save some people's lives, literally, by posting this information. Weeks and months ahead people are going to read this information while they are not yet cut off from the world and their family, and they will think twice about turning their minds and souls over to this woman.
They will cut their losses and decide not to go the the Byron Katie School For The Work LGAT seminar due to all of the severe risks involved.

This is utterly diabolical LGAT style mind-washing, coming at people from all angles.
She knows that SOME people won't follow the Byron Katie THE DREADED LIST Prohibitions. Prohibition does not work, and it makes these things worse, and she knows it, everyone knows it.

But there are many who will TRY to follow basically all of the prohibitions, and those people fall right into the trap.
And many TRY to follow all of them, and FAIL, so they blame themselves and feel bad! Very common tactic to set people up to fail, and blame themselves, setting impossible demands on people. That is very well known in psychology. If people set behavioral standards they cannot meet, they get very emotionally upset.

RELATIONSHIPS:
Most important, Byron Katie wants to totally isolate you from your FAMILY and friends, during the mind-washing process. Again, that is the common way to do it. She wants to cut you off from reality, so she can install the new Katie-Reality in your mind. This can ever trigger divorces, as many of these LGAT seminars do.
She sticks you in a room with a STRANGER to cut you off from everyone you know.

INFORMATION: cutting off radio, tv, magazines, books. This is OLD SCHOOL hard-core brainwashing preparation, just to clear your mind and create an empty space. Its Old School, but it works.
You can only read books by the Eternal Godwoman Leader named Byron Katie. Byron Katie must have got that one from Kim Jong-il of North Korea, works well for him in the North Korean brainwashing schools for children.
(this one is truly the most evil, as this is the start of controlling your thinking. This is truly evil vile concentration camp methods).

SEX: is a primary drive, so she wants to open up that issue as well, with some attempt at control. Again, every cult screws with people's sex impulses in one way or another. Of course, trying to suppress sex, makes it more active. Again, basic knowledge, which Katie knows.

BOOZE: alcohol is a drug, and going cold turkey for some in her audience is impossible, even just heavy social drinkers. So people start to go into a bit of withdrawal, or sneak the booze, and feel bad about it.

CAFFEINE: also a drug, and she wants to get the same withdrawal effect. Its just another impossible goal for most people, to make them crave more chocolate, etc.

SUGAR/FOOD: she wants to manipulate/control your food intake as well. Going cold turkey on sugar, creates very strong desires and impulses, which is why she is doing it.

DRUGS: again, more manipulation for people with over the counter dependencies. Those folks are not going to give that stuff up, just sneak it in the toilet, and feel guilty.

MAKE-UP, perfume: obviously, this is to REALLY mess with the minds of her female members, who feel so exposed without make-up. You can be damn sure Katie is wearing make-up like Joan Rivers. Its all about screwing with your mind. If you don't wear make-up, you feel naked and exposed. If you wear it, maybe people look at you funny, and you feel guilty, etc. Mind-Games.

SALES: no, you can't promote your real estate business, but Byron Katie can SELL SELL SELL. The rules are not for the Queen, of course, just the peasants.

POOL: yeah, you can't use the pool at your hotel. This is just a mindless request to test submission levels.

Notice how she gets people to turn their stuff over to the "STAFF", who are not staff, just people who PAY to WORK for BKI, which might not even be legal.
She wants you to turn everything over to her. TRANSFERENCE. Psyche 101.

She wants sick people in the room? So if you get the flu virus, she wants you to come into the room, and spread it to everyone else? Why? Because sick and pain is good, that is her currency.

Also, many people start to have Trauma based emotional breakdowns from her techniques. Its very sad what is going on. You see, its very easy to open up people's trauma, any fool can do that in a few hours. This is why TRAINED psychologists are very careful in how they do it, it takes time, care, and 24/7 emergency plans in case of suicidal impulses.
But notice how the Byron Katie system, opens the trauma, then throws you on a blanket at the back of the room, then throws you into the street after a week. (this makes you dependent on the BKI coaching system).
but hey, if you kill yourself from trauma flooding, then tough for you, read the contract you signed.
Suicide from PTSD is terribly common. Again, basic common knowledge.

So Byron Katie is messing with your...RELATIONSHIPS, SEX, INFORMATION, BOOZE, CAFFEINE, SUGAR, FOOD, MAKE-UP, SELF-IMAGE, LIFE-ENJOYMENT, SLEEP-SCHEDULE.
What isn't she messing with?

You see, this is all textbook LGAT seminar mind-washing technique. She just went down the list that has been developed over the last few decades, and added them all to her methods.
And guess what?
This is only to SET THE TABLE. This is just the warm-up act.

The real mind-washing, starts once all of these behaviors controls start to kick in.
The all the Belief Re-engineering starts, and the deep Transference to Byron Katie starts.
All of these techniqes are simply to make people more Suggestible.

As as been said all along, the Byron Katie School For The Work, is a high-impact LGAT mind-washing system. It almost can't get any more obvious.
Hopefully some serious scholars will begin to study this stuff in detail, and write some books about it.
Then, we need some educational documentaries to air maybe on shows like Frontline on PBS. They could make a 5 part documentary, to explain all these techniques being used like people like Byron Katie and many others.
The public needs to be educated about what is going on in the 9-Day LGAT seminars.

Here is the kicker. The fact that all of these prohibitions and methods are followed "Voluntarily" is what gives them their power. This was also learned decades ago. Because when people are enticed into the system in a way that seems "Voluntary" then its incredibly powerful.
If you try to push people too hard too early, they resist.
So they do the opposite, and set up impossible standards that NO ONE could ever meet. So it lures you in, if you fall for it.

Come into my parlor, said the spider to the fly...

And again, this is probably only 25% of what is going on here. The other 75% are the actual mind-clearing and mind-washing techniques that occur inside the seminar room. All of these things in this list, just set the table for the main course.
And the main course is not The Work. "The Work" is the bait on the hook.
What is REALLY going on is not the overt "content" of the seminar.

Its what is happening on a meta-level on the deepest levels of people belief systems, and literally how their brain is processing "reality". The goal is for you to come out at the end of the 9 Days with Byron Katie at the center of your mental/emotional universe, where she is going to stay for many years, if not for life with some people. Byron Katie does plant seeds even in her public products that she wants ALL of you for LIFE.

But, you can kick her out of your mind, using the same techiques in reverse, as has be documented earlier in this thread.

NOTE TO former Byron Katie STAFF:
And to the Byron Katie "staff" people who watch this happen to people, and see the damage. Some of you are going to start feeling some serious guilt for what is being done to people. And some of you may know about someone who took their own life after having their trauma ripped open again, with no support.
How can you help?
Just come forward, and tell the truth of what is going on.
Some people are posting leaked whistleblower information these days on Wikileaks.
[wikileaks.org]

Quote


THE DREADED LIST

You have entered the world of The School for The Work, the School of You. We ask that you not use, consume, or engage in, any of the following:

• outside contact with family or friends, including email and letters
• cell phones, pagers, computers
• television, radio, music
• books, tapes, or magazines (other than The School materials)
• sex, flirting
• alcohol
• caffeine (coffee, black or green tea, chocolate, soda)
• sugar, other than what is served at meals
• food between meals (unless doctor prescribed)
• vitamins or food supplements (unless doctor prescribed)
• non-prescription drugs (unless doctor prescribed)
• perfume, aftershave
• makeup
• promotion or sales of any kind
• Jacuzzi, pool, gym (unless doctor prescribed)


Please deposit all items on this list with the staff. They will be returned to you at the closing session on Xxxday. If you have perishable items, please put them in a separate bag clearly marked as “Perishable”. They will not be returned.

We ask that you attend all the sessions, even if you have to crawl. If you need help to attend, ask for it. We will carry you in. We will have pillows and blankets if you need them. Sleep, be angry, sick, sad or tired within this work space. Throughout The School, please honor the following: Use mirrors only once a day, if at all. Do not share a room with your partner or someone you already know. This is very important.

If you feel need to, please contact your family/ friends/ co-workers to ask them to support you in not communicating with them at all while you are in The School. Please feel free to invite them to the public event on Xxxday

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2009 03:51AM by The Anticult.