Yep, Byron Katie really has got it down. She is a master at mind control.

Thanks yet again for the really helpful info, TAC.

also, just to clarify, in the book BRAINWASH, he spends a lot of time talking about brutal and violent methods used in military interrogation and terrorist operations, and things of that nature.

But he also touches on some of the methods used in NRM, New Religious Movements, which are the methods that Byron Katie uses. The most sophisticated methods of influence are permissive and appear to be "voluntary".
This is why Byron Katie instructs her people to scream from the housetops...

ITS ALL VOLUNTARY...ITS ALL VOLUNTARY.

She knows exactly what she is doing, and how to present it.

Having been saved untold trouble with my being involved with the Byron Katie organization, I can't say enough about this forum and this particular thread. I believe my own experience to be proof that someone can stumble on this site in the early stages of the Byron Katie International scam and get free before they either lose a fortune, or lose their mind. Actually, in that I spent nearly sixty years of religion/guru/cult hopping--and probably was a prime target for the Byron Katie bunch--amazingly, the message of this forum STILL got through to me enough to drop the book purchasing, online coaching, and self-brainwashing I was active in.

So, keep it up folks! I'm living proof that it's worth it.

qd

this is why Byron Katie and her ilk, try to kill your ability to think for yourself and make up your own mind, and trust your own intuition.
They want to be the one doing the thinking and planning.

Why does typing words into a computer help people?
Who knows.
But for example, in Cognitive Therapy, the most important thing that has been proven in many studies, is that WRITING out and Disputing and modifying one's own cognitions can really help many people.

So when a person is sitting at the computer, they read, and think, and then type out some new ideas. They are modifying their own beliefs.
There is no peer pressure from Byron Katie salespeople breathing down your neck.
You don't have Stephen Sashen, or Carol Skolnick shaping your perceptions.

You are making up your own mind, and thinking for yourself, and processing information in your own way. It really is a type of cognitive therapy, or a portion of it.
But WRITING about one's experiences, as well as reading and analyses are crucial. Reading and thinking is not enough.


But this is why folks like Carol Skolnick will NOT have an open online debate.
What they do is say..."come into my parlor", and they try to get you private, or on the phone. Hey, some of Byron Katie's people have even gotten blog owners on the PHONE to work their persuasion magic on them. They know what they are doing.
All cultish groups try to isolate you, and get you into their parlor.

I just thought of something...COME INTO MY PARLOR...Byron Katie says that over and over. What is that from?
Isn't it from a fairy tale about a spider and a fly?
COME INTO MY PARLOR, said the spider to the fly? Yes, there is a fairy tale about the spider and the fly. You are the fly, Byron Katie is the spider.

Does everyone see how fucking blatant and in your face Byron Katie is with this stuff? She laughs and says COME INTO MY PARLOR, over and over, and she knows that a part of you knows she is the spider and you are the fly, and she is going to suck the life right out of you, and eat you up.
She does it right in your face, as she knows she can get away with it.
Byron Katie is 100% conscious of everything she is doing to you, and she doesn't care, and she loves the power. Just like the spider loves luring the fly into its web, then killing it, drinking its juices, and discarding it.
"The Work" is the SPIDERS WEB, meant to lure you to place one foot into the web, then you are CAUGHT, and you might not get out.
The best image of Byron Katie is the one she gave herself...

Byron Katie is a SPIDER spinning a web, and you are the fly, to be sucked dry.

Black widow incarnate, spinning webs of deceit, and flattering words...(Love-Bombing, sweetheart, dear, etc)
That's it folks. It there in black and white.


_____________________
[en.wikisource.org]
The Spider and the Fly
by Mary Howitt

"Will you walk into my parlor?" said the Spider to the Fly,
"'Tis the prettiest little parlor that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlor is up a winding stair,
And I have many curious things to show you when you are there."
"Oh no, no," said the Fly, "to ask me is in vain;
For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again."

"I'm sure you must be weary, dear, with soaring up so high;
Will you rest upon my little bed?" said the Spider to the Fly.
"There are pretty curtains drawn around, the sheets are fine and thin;
And if you like to rest awhile, I'll snugly tuck you in!"
"Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "for I've often heard it said
They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed!"

Said the cunning Spider to the Fly, "Dear friend, what can I do
To prove that warm affection I've always felt for you?
I have within my pantry, good store of all that's nice;
I'm sure you're very welcome - will you please take a slice?"
"Oh no, no," said the little Fly, "kind sir, that cannot be,
I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see!"

"Sweet creature," said the Spider, "you're witty and you're wise;
How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes!
I have a little looking-glass upon my parlor shelf;
If you step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself."
"I thank you, gentle sir," she said, "for what you're pleased to say;
And bidding good morning now, I'll call another day."

The Spider turned him round about, and went into his den,
For well he knew the silly Fly would soon come back again;
So he wove a subtle web in a little corner sly,
And set his table ready to dine upon the Fly.
then he came out to his door again, and merrily did sing,
"Come hither, hither, pretty Fly, with the pearl and silver wing;
Your robes are green and purple, there's a crest upon your head;
Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are as dull as lead."

Alas, alas! how very soon this silly little Fly,
Hearing his wily, flattering words, came slowly flitting by;
With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew, -
Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue;
Thinking only of her crested head - poor foolish thing! At last,
Up jumped the cunning Spider, and fiercely held her fast.
He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den
Within his little parlor - but she ne'er came out again!

And now, dear little children, who may this story read,
To idle, silly, flattering words, I pray you ne'er heed;
Unto an evil counsellor close heart, and ear, and eye,
And take a lesson from this tale of the Spider and the Fly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2008 06:45AM by The Anticult.

This is unreal.
The last CD of Byron Katie I listened to, she said...COME INTO MY PARLOR, over and over, constantly.

That is the first line from the classic poem from 1829, that every kid learns in pre-school.
Totally brilliant.
Byron Katie is talking to your unconscious mind, which speaks in that type of lauguage, and she is REGRESSING you at the same time, with that phrase. That phrase takes you back to be 5 years old again, and she does it in Baby-Talk too.

Byron Katie's own hubris and arrogance has revealed itself. This is it.
Any Katie fan knows she says COME INTO MY PARLOR constantly, and even seduces her people to join her "parlor" and makes it just as seductive as the Spider and the Fly. She has an online parlor, [www.thework.com]
and an invite-only in-person parlor, and god only knows what goes on in secret in there. That is one of the last places on earth anyone should ever want to be, in Byron Katie's private Spider Parlor.
Everything will be taken from you.


[en.wikipedia.org])
The Spider and the Fly is a poem by Mary Howitt (1799-1888), published in 1829. The first line of the poem is "'Will you walk into my parlor?' said the Spider to the Fly

That's exactly what I seem to be finding, Anticult! These hucksters are as obvious as the nose on my face. In another thread, a person was telling their story involving a cult recruiter who kept saying "you're asleep" and "everyone is asleep" over and over. That's classic hypnotism!

I guess we don't always need to look all that closely to see when someone is trying to dupe us. We just need to watch for the obvious, in many cases. Makes it easier to keep the boundaries intact. It seems as if arrogance is one of the earmarks of some of these little cockroaches. Speaking of which, I remember in the movie "It's a Wonderful Life", where George calls Potter a 'scurvy little spider'; another great mental image to apply, where needed.

A Happy New Year to you, by the way.

qd

What cautions me from embracing philosophies such as this one; as convenient as they are and desirable as they may be on many levels, is the vindication it gives to perpetrators of the crime of Child Sexual Assault and rape. Men who say with full ease that what they are doing isn't a crime and they are 'loving' their victims.

Similarly, Byron Katies ' it didn't happen' pathway to forgiveness and 'avoid reality to live in it' represents the invention of an unsustainable unification process and presents to us, as victims of crime, an incompatible and unpalatable state of paradox; one that promises only increased perpetuation of affliction and an unethically contrived balance-of-convenience.

Simply speaking, it engages and ensnares victims and offenders within an unresolvable paradox based on a 'blame the victim-avoid responsibility' rhetoric; one already apparent and reflective of some sections of societies current opinion.

I feel that in light of the basic manipulation of age, trust and innocence by predator humans, and the ongoing and increasing success of and applied 'self awareness' of their tactics, any caveat that may have existed in spiritual or religious concept or indeed, in actuality owing to the pre-existant state of the so called 'Sin Nature' of man, ceases or has ceased to exist in light of the consequence of inaction to the state of Humanity as a whole.

That is to say, to imply that under *any* terms or circumstance, to a child or victim of sexual assault that ' it didn't happen' is to deliberately ignore the CRIME and our human responsibility to address it. It is an act of intentional denial and ACTIVELY condones abuse and therefore it is an assault on our Humanity and its core values at the fundamental level.

In reality on the ground, this type of philosophy utterly divorces offenders and society at large from fundamental accountability to the responsibilities contained within the Principles of Right Action - the same being a primary spiritual core of common sense held within our own Human Natures as much as attachable to any external philosophy or concept of spirituality.

Within my own spiritual concepts, it also ignores entirely, the very real spiritual transgressions of offenders and their own responsibilities to Life and the Sacred. More importantly to the Whole and the present moment however, it also ignores the neurological implications of early CSA, as the same acts as catalyst for wider disease of Mind; therefore it fails to recognize the threat and impact of the interruption as such, not just on or to victims and offenders, but the wider social mind-strata of the Human Being that we are and inhabit.

Historically and socially speaking, adaptations of variances of this exact method of thought, have already amounted to the intentional and permissive continuance of a deadly cycle of re-perpetration. Not only of the abuses themselves, but the intentional perpetration of the 'denial' that such ignorance sustains - that denial being the far greater danger to the larger causes of Humanity as an entity.

For in so doing, it not only denies validation and justice to those harmed, it provides reward and validation to the abusers, too eager to take on the 'it didn't happen/i am not responsible' mantra - it places all society at risk and leaves communities and individuals unprepared to face the challenges to come within society, that will require healthy, awake and mature adult minds capable of critical analysis.

At the simplest level of individual emotional and internal environmental well being, it leaves a painful dichotomy for any abuse victim to be confronted with. In essence, not only must they overcome the affects and effects of the abuse itself, but then they face a seeming potential of social-spiritual ostracism if they then fail to blame themselves or to hold themselves accountable for it's it's initial occurrence and ongoing manifested result. This amounts to cruelty piled atop of cruelty, one devoid of compassion and ignorant of clarity let alone rational information.

It also though, seems to provide individuals divorced from either side of that equation, those who adhere to this way of thinking as a matter of lifestyle, a personal emotional 'distance' from reality itself - a further compensation for their neglect, and merely provides an escape route from responsibility and shared accountability - one that only serves to exacerbate and elongate the pre-existing state of psychological and moral denial we all share as a common ancestral heritage.

This philosophy has the potential of leaving us with a 'race' of aloof Beings incapable of empathy, critical thought, emotion or compassion - a state devoid of the very substance of Humanity.

It's the 'get off scott free/free lunch' approach to those annoyingly morbid people and issues we'd rather not face and recover together from and with. Issues that could be realistically overcome or addressed to satisfaction, with compassion, honesty, effort and ongoing willingness. Any Whole so constructed along Byron lines, will remain ineffective and a house of cards waiting to fall. Any social policy born from this idea risks our further social devolution and division.

In actuality - in this case meaning as it is experienced by the abuse victim in real time - this philosophy and its concepts seem derived only to act as a catalyst for more abuse perpetuation and guilt, they lend themselves to the creation of a false sense of security and comforted denial to those - as yet- directly unaffected. For in further including offenders into general society and empowering them via this technique, in effect isolating victims from 'the rest of society' in this manner, something far greater is being left unchecked to undermine and destroy the bonds of society, at it's root.

Right now the planet seemingly abounds with those men [and women] who would willingly prefer to see 'no crime' where crime *has* occurred in order to avoid pain, responsibility, penalty and the process of necessary amends.
Further, it is supporting to those for whom active tangible physical processes of unity and restoration put in place to assist ALL human beings is an anathema to personal 'freedom'; and it excuses those who would willingly choose to take up and utilize this very self same, ego-serving premise and philosophy to justify and excuse their criminal or negligent actions, or those, who by their inaction, willingly turn the other way when injustice is done.



Reality merely reigns...it does not Rule.



blue

recently Wayne Dyer said he would publish James Frey's books, as one assumes that to Wayne Dyer is perfectly ok to lie and fabricate in books? (maybe he feels guilty?) [www.thesmokinggun.com]

James Frey fooled Oprah, and Oprah has been fooled again by another false memoir.

False Memoir of Holocaust Is Canceled
"A man (Herman Rosenblat) whose memoir about his experience during the Holocaust was to have been published in February has admitted that his story was embellished, and on Saturday evening his publisher canceled the release of the book.
A bound proof of “Angel at the Fence” circulated in advance of the publication date.
And once again a New York publisher and Oprah Winfrey were among those fooled by a too-good-to-be-true story."
"Ms. Winfrey, who hosted Mr. Rosenblat and his wife, Roma Radzicki Rosenblat, on her show twice, called their romance “the single greatest love story” she had encountered in her 22 years on the show."
[www.nytimes.com]

Even when they aired the story, many people and scholars were saying it could not be true. But they aired it anyway, as it was a feel good story to get ratings.
Turns out its a hoax.

If they applied even a tiny shred of journalism to Byron Katie, and Rhonda Byrne, and these other people, they would find just as many fabrications, if not far more than these other people.
But they literally don't care.
If its a good "story" they put it on air, as it gets ratings. They literally don't seem to care if its false, until they get caught.

Why not apply a tiny shred of critical thinking instead?

Contrary to Wayne Dyer, and others, there is such a thing as lying and fabricating in print.
But as long as they don't get busted, and it sells, they sell it until they get busted. Then move onto the next one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2008 10:55PM by The Anticult.

Phew! I finally read this whole thread and I can tell you it took me two whole weeks working full time on it. Of course I did research links and some other stuff on this RR-site, and checked every piece of information on this thread that I could check by google.

Thanks everyone for this incredibly enlightening info that I could find through examining the things mentioned in this thread. For instance various techniques to manufacture mental confusion were useful; and especially useful were various personal experiences and their articulations. I feel like I’m finally getting my brain back to myself. So thanks.

Byron Katie’s face-lift was one of the things where there was no supporting evidence to be found. So that sort of thing would in my opinion be just rumour. Please don’t fall for rumouring.

But yes, there really is quite a lot of evidence to support the claim made in this thread that Byron Katie and her following crew are destroying any evidence that might make them seem less “enlightened and all-knowing and all-loving”.

For instance Carol L. Skolnick’s “Going to Work Naked: My Journey to Byron Katie” on her blog has been destroyed and is nowhere to be found any longer but on this site. I wonder, if it was cited in full here. Anyway at least pieces of it were cited and analyzed intelligently. Maybe that was too revealing. Maybe the new age business manipulators just can’t handle revealing information. They do want to rewrite history. They do want to change the facts, if it serves their cause. Just like any other dictators known in history.

And those people claim that they are the ones who are one with reality and everything. Well, it definitely seems to be the reality itself that they can’t handle at all.

So instead of living in reality and accepting reality as it is, they’re ready to change reality so that it fits their agenda. Extremely disgusting!

These new age gurus like Byron Katie are indeed very intelligent, but they are not superiorly intelligent. This one thread alone proves that. They may be able to lie to most people and they may be able to lie most of the time, but they cannot lie to everyone all the time.

I personally haven’t been involved in BK stuff, but still I found this thread very useful. It means there is valuable and general information here to be used and applied to many kinds of new age, spiritual, cultish, authoritarian circles and even personal experiences.

And anyone saying that he’s read this kind of very long thread in just a few hours or even a few days is lying. Also, there was one poster claiming to have skimmed this thread through, and then he was very eager to offer his own positive opinions about BK. One cannot just skim through this sort of information! It must be studied and studied properly. The BK/new age apologists don’t do that sort of thing.

And that’s where they’ll lose. There really seems to be some kind of spiritual war going on, at least in America, and everything seems to be spreading from the USA to Europe and then to the rest of the world. We better prepare ourselves with our genuine hearts and minds. We better be strong enough to not let those people to get their total control over everything.

That’s what it’s all about. Or am I mistaken here?

what's interesting about this, is that it explains how this system works.

Some guy writes a story, that is not true. (in this case, its an older person, so most folks would cut the guy some slack for some tall tales...).
But he puts together a good story, and it gets printed.

Then the Oprah show hears about this "good story" and puts it on the show...no fact checking.
Chicken Soup for the Soul, also promotes it.

Meanwhile, the story is absurd...a young girl giving apples to a Nazi death camp prisoner through the wire? She would have been shot, as would anyone approaching the wire. It makes no sense, even before checking the details.

But no one cares.
Oprah doesn't think or care, its a "love story"that makes the audience cry.
Then the story gets big, and the publisher thinks they can make a million bucks, meanwhile, they know its false, but they want the million bucks.
So they all promote it, trying to make a million bucks.

This time, they crossed the line, and they got busted. The publisher blames the writer, when in fact, obviously they knew it was made-up.

But its the exact same process with Byron Katie and Eckhart Tolle, Rhonda Byrne, Ramtha, Abe-Hicks, and the others. Their "stories" actually have far more falsehoods and lies in them than this guys. But they get away with it, as they make the stories impossible to check, and are professional fabricators.

But no one cares, as the Story Sells, and it makes a profit.
That's it, that's why they do it.
Same as Carlos Castaneda, the publishers know its BS, but they don't care. It sells.

ok, I get it.
Fabricate a story based on lies that sells, best if its uncheckable!
Repeat, repeat, repeat.
If caught, blame someone else.
Then do it again.

This is how Byron Katie gets away with it. No one cares, and she knows it.
All they care is...DOES IT SELL, and how much?