Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Steven Sashen, scams, etc
Posted by:
Joel
()
Date: November 07, 2008 06:32PM
Thanks for those replies.
I have to say, I think self-enquiry has been useful for me, learning something about my own patterns of thinking and how they can affect me. But BK seems to have put herself so squarely at the heart of it, her name and face are everywhere: 'The Work of Byron Katie...' It doesn't support people thinking for themselves, in my opinion.
Another interesting thing that's occured to me. In Loving What Is, there's a transcript of an interview she does with a guy- I think it's about his relationship with his wife or partner. In the book the transcript quotes Byron Katie as saying "Your concepts are meat in the grinder to me, if you want to know the truth."
Fine. Ok. But the full interview is on the internet (it's over an hour long: [video.google.com]). And she doesn't actually say that. She says "When you sit on this couch you are meat". That doesn't sound as nice, so they've airbrushed it up, and basically fabricated a line- about her relationship with truth!
It might sound like a minor point, but it gave me interesting food for thought.
I have to say, I think self-enquiry has been useful for me, learning something about my own patterns of thinking and how they can affect me. But BK seems to have put herself so squarely at the heart of it, her name and face are everywhere: 'The Work of Byron Katie...' It doesn't support people thinking for themselves, in my opinion.
Another interesting thing that's occured to me. In Loving What Is, there's a transcript of an interview she does with a guy- I think it's about his relationship with his wife or partner. In the book the transcript quotes Byron Katie as saying "Your concepts are meat in the grinder to me, if you want to know the truth."
Fine. Ok. But the full interview is on the internet (it's over an hour long: [video.google.com]). And she doesn't actually say that. She says "When you sit on this couch you are meat". That doesn't sound as nice, so they've airbrushed it up, and basically fabricated a line- about her relationship with truth!
It might sound like a minor point, but it gave me interesting food for thought.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - YouTube Dead Meat Zombies
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 07, 2008 11:34PM
Hi Joel, you are making some excellent points about the video and transcript.
Dozens and dozens of lies have been documented in this thread alone.
Obviously, this is a huge thread, and there is a lot of detail in the thread on people's views about these videos. Here's some of my view, after many years of looking into this type of thing.
The changing of that line, is not by accident. Its very carefully done.
As explained in the thread, Byron Katie is a type of very elegant covert Ericksonian hypnotist, and she chooses her words incredibly carefully. She carefully writes and then repeats various phrases over and over, creating Double-Binds, Double-Meanings, etc. That is a common practice in that field.
Why are all these Byron Katie videos on YouTube? Why were they made?
Byron Katie International had to get written permissions from everyone in them, to make and upload these videos, and they function as viral marketing, of course.
But on a deeper level, its not really about the people in the videos.
Its about all the people WATCHING the video, which are the Byron Katie customers, and potential customers.
In their minds, as they watch, they become who Katie is talking to, they can go into a hypnotic state, and some folks watch them over and over, for hours, everyday.
As detailed in this thread, she uses the videos to get deep inside people's minds and beliefs, telling people they are flower vases, and passive things of that nature.
"When you sit on this couch you are meat".
That is an extremely powerful hypnotic induction when done at the right moment.
It is saying that when people sit down and watch these videos, they are MEAT. (not just their beliefs, their identity). This is coded language for other Byron Katie communications to people, and language patterns. But again, its passive, its mindless, its meat.
She must use that phrase MEAT in other contexts as well.
The word "couch" also suggests the hypnotic state people get into when they watch these videos over and over. Like a COUCH POTATO, or MEAT. etc.
I know it must be very hard for some people to believe, but Byron Katie is using those verbal powers to deeply influence people, and even take control of them to a lesser or greater degree.
A good ethical hypnotist might say..."each time you sit on this couch you are more alive and learn new things effortlessly"
or,
- each time you sit on this couch your unconscious knows what to do to solve the problem and gives you the solution.
Stuff like that is very helpful.
But as documented in this thread, Byron Katie uses those tools not to free people, but to do the opposite, to serve herself.
Yes, she does put BYRON KATIE at the center of it all, she puts herself at the center of people's psyches. That is profoundly unethical, and even worse.
Using these hypnotic language tools, people can learn how to unlock their own unconscious creativity to solve problems and live a better life.
But they are being used to hurt people, even to disable them.
For a hypnotist to say a phrase like "you are meat" in this context is frankly evil, and its designed to Zombify people, as once a person becomes Zombified, or "clear" or a blank slate, then guess who rewrites the programs?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2008 11:42PM by The Anticult.
Dozens and dozens of lies have been documented in this thread alone.
Obviously, this is a huge thread, and there is a lot of detail in the thread on people's views about these videos. Here's some of my view, after many years of looking into this type of thing.
The changing of that line, is not by accident. Its very carefully done.
As explained in the thread, Byron Katie is a type of very elegant covert Ericksonian hypnotist, and she chooses her words incredibly carefully. She carefully writes and then repeats various phrases over and over, creating Double-Binds, Double-Meanings, etc. That is a common practice in that field.
Why are all these Byron Katie videos on YouTube? Why were they made?
Byron Katie International had to get written permissions from everyone in them, to make and upload these videos, and they function as viral marketing, of course.
But on a deeper level, its not really about the people in the videos.
Its about all the people WATCHING the video, which are the Byron Katie customers, and potential customers.
In their minds, as they watch, they become who Katie is talking to, they can go into a hypnotic state, and some folks watch them over and over, for hours, everyday.
As detailed in this thread, she uses the videos to get deep inside people's minds and beliefs, telling people they are flower vases, and passive things of that nature.
"When you sit on this couch you are meat".
That is an extremely powerful hypnotic induction when done at the right moment.
It is saying that when people sit down and watch these videos, they are MEAT. (not just their beliefs, their identity). This is coded language for other Byron Katie communications to people, and language patterns. But again, its passive, its mindless, its meat.
She must use that phrase MEAT in other contexts as well.
The word "couch" also suggests the hypnotic state people get into when they watch these videos over and over. Like a COUCH POTATO, or MEAT. etc.
I know it must be very hard for some people to believe, but Byron Katie is using those verbal powers to deeply influence people, and even take control of them to a lesser or greater degree.
A good ethical hypnotist might say..."each time you sit on this couch you are more alive and learn new things effortlessly"
or,
- each time you sit on this couch your unconscious knows what to do to solve the problem and gives you the solution.
Stuff like that is very helpful.
But as documented in this thread, Byron Katie uses those tools not to free people, but to do the opposite, to serve herself.
Yes, she does put BYRON KATIE at the center of it all, she puts herself at the center of people's psyches. That is profoundly unethical, and even worse.
Using these hypnotic language tools, people can learn how to unlock their own unconscious creativity to solve problems and live a better life.
But they are being used to hurt people, even to disable them.
For a hypnotist to say a phrase like "you are meat" in this context is frankly evil, and its designed to Zombify people, as once a person becomes Zombified, or "clear" or a blank slate, then guess who rewrites the programs?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2008 11:42PM by The Anticult.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - YouTube Dead Meat Zombies
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 08, 2008 12:10AM
by the way, this is the level of specificity that Byron Katie needs to be looked at from.
Some of her fans focus on too wide on an angle...as in... here is some lady talking about love in a weird way...
it has to be looked at much more carefully, and the correct level is on the level of the specific language phrases and words, and how they are used.
in hypnotherapy, that is where the power is.
one has to very carefully look at the specific language being used.
Some of her fans focus on too wide on an angle...as in... here is some lady talking about love in a weird way...
it has to be looked at much more carefully, and the correct level is on the level of the specific language phrases and words, and how they are used.
in hypnotherapy, that is where the power is.
one has to very carefully look at the specific language being used.
Byron Katie (the Work) - Who Would You Be Without Your Story?
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 09, 2008 05:06AM
dropped into a major bookstore...Eckhart Tolle has more than 10 different products taking up an entire shelf.
Salesman Speaks. That guy is a real old school huckster.
Byron Katie has a new book called, Who Would You Be Without Your Story?
they have edited it into a dialogue format, which is very crafty. When people read that, its more indirect and suggestive, and they don't realize that Katie is talking DIRECTLY to YOU, and not to the edited text of the name on the page. Again, a brilliant method to bypass the critical mind of the reader.
Byron Katie is leering right off the cover of the book, with a HUGE PHOTO of her face and the hypnotic EYES, scanning the bookshelf customers, looking for pain.
[www.amazon.com]
(this is why Carol Skolnick suggest people might FALL IN LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT...with Byron Katie and to connect with those images of her).
Richard Bandler has a new book out on hypnosis, which he explains much of what people do in this field, like Byron Katie. But at least Bandler tells you what he is doing.
[ Richard Bandler's Guide to Trance-formation: How to Harness the Power of Hypnosis to Ignite Effortless and Lasting Change ] ISBN-10: 0757307779, ISBN-13: 978-0757307775
Byron Katie carefully hides what she is doing, and denies she is doing it, and also targets folks who tend to get caught up in their own painful emotional experience. Its scary, and its a shame the general public doesn't have more training in what these people like Byron Katie are doing to them, without their awareness.
_______Tag:
Who Would You Be Without Your Story?: Dialogues with Byron Katie (Paperback)
Paperback: 336 pages
Publisher: Hay House (October 15, 2008)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1401921795
ISBN-13: 978-1401921798
Salesman Speaks. That guy is a real old school huckster.
Byron Katie has a new book called, Who Would You Be Without Your Story?
they have edited it into a dialogue format, which is very crafty. When people read that, its more indirect and suggestive, and they don't realize that Katie is talking DIRECTLY to YOU, and not to the edited text of the name on the page. Again, a brilliant method to bypass the critical mind of the reader.
Byron Katie is leering right off the cover of the book, with a HUGE PHOTO of her face and the hypnotic EYES, scanning the bookshelf customers, looking for pain.
[www.amazon.com]
(this is why Carol Skolnick suggest people might FALL IN LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT...with Byron Katie and to connect with those images of her).
Richard Bandler has a new book out on hypnosis, which he explains much of what people do in this field, like Byron Katie. But at least Bandler tells you what he is doing.
[ Richard Bandler's Guide to Trance-formation: How to Harness the Power of Hypnosis to Ignite Effortless and Lasting Change ] ISBN-10: 0757307779, ISBN-13: 978-0757307775
Byron Katie carefully hides what she is doing, and denies she is doing it, and also targets folks who tend to get caught up in their own painful emotional experience. Its scary, and its a shame the general public doesn't have more training in what these people like Byron Katie are doing to them, without their awareness.
_______Tag:
Who Would You Be Without Your Story?: Dialogues with Byron Katie (Paperback)
Paperback: 336 pages
Publisher: Hay House (October 15, 2008)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1401921795
ISBN-13: 978-1401921798
Byron Katie (the Work) - nightly mp3 Mental Cleanse Brainwashing
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 09, 2008 06:31AM
The Byron Katie blog is a real piece of work.
Here is one entry that is total manipulation, using the typical Byron Katie themes she is working on with people.
A Letter from Holland
[www.byronkatie.com]
Byron Katie has various themes. One of her main themes is to try to make you feel good about LOSING MONEY, and even losing everything. Its right there in the text.
This is all a preamble to folks who are at a Byron Katie seminar, when she tells them to give her a massive "gift", then they are pre-conditioned to give Byron Katie a fortune.
CANCER: Byron Katie loves to press the cancer button, over and over. It works. She tells people to go into denial and pretend they don't have it, if they have it. But more importantly is about FEAR of CANCER, that is a way Byron Katie is able to get inside the mind.
But here is the kicker. Byron Katie pretends that someone wrote this letter to her...not a chance. She and hubby wrote it, or added to it. Notice in the paragraph below she does 4 things, all merged together...
1) mp3 Brainwashing: Katie is suggesting to people to listen to her Mental Cleanse brainwashing recording every single night, as they fall asleep, and go into a natural hypnotic state. (please do not do this).
2) Staff: she is suggesting people be "staff", that is, PAY Byron Katie to work for her, at her seminars. (please do not do this).
3) when you do pay to work for Katie, SHE WILL NOT EVEN SPEAK TO YOU PERSONALLY.
4) ON YOUR KNEES THANKING BYRON KATIE (please do not do this). Notice how she uses the ON YOUR KNEES idea many times...this is how she can get people to fall on their knees before Byron Katie in a parking lot...its about getting total submission.
Byron Katie is utterly ruthless, power corrupts.
---------QUOTE-------------
Every evening I go to bed with the MP3 player with the Mental Cleanse on it (what a brilliant idea!). I listen to the clarity of The Work and of you, and I fall asleep in peace-- peace is what I want in this lifetime, and there is a lot of work to do. I am very happy and starting to get balanced. I am so grateful that I could be a staff member this summer in Bad Neuenahr. I did not speak to you personally then, but I breathed in and out the wonderful, peaceful, clear atmosphere of the School. Everything so well organized, always someone to talk to and to ask a question, always availability. And from me, it just came out of me, without having to do so much. Just gratitude. Being able to experience it.
On my knees, thanking you and me for this gift of life.
Dear Katie, embracing you with love,
Here is one entry that is total manipulation, using the typical Byron Katie themes she is working on with people.
A Letter from Holland
[www.byronkatie.com]
Byron Katie has various themes. One of her main themes is to try to make you feel good about LOSING MONEY, and even losing everything. Its right there in the text.
This is all a preamble to folks who are at a Byron Katie seminar, when she tells them to give her a massive "gift", then they are pre-conditioned to give Byron Katie a fortune.
CANCER: Byron Katie loves to press the cancer button, over and over. It works. She tells people to go into denial and pretend they don't have it, if they have it. But more importantly is about FEAR of CANCER, that is a way Byron Katie is able to get inside the mind.
But here is the kicker. Byron Katie pretends that someone wrote this letter to her...not a chance. She and hubby wrote it, or added to it. Notice in the paragraph below she does 4 things, all merged together...
1) mp3 Brainwashing: Katie is suggesting to people to listen to her Mental Cleanse brainwashing recording every single night, as they fall asleep, and go into a natural hypnotic state. (please do not do this).
2) Staff: she is suggesting people be "staff", that is, PAY Byron Katie to work for her, at her seminars. (please do not do this).
3) when you do pay to work for Katie, SHE WILL NOT EVEN SPEAK TO YOU PERSONALLY.
4) ON YOUR KNEES THANKING BYRON KATIE (please do not do this). Notice how she uses the ON YOUR KNEES idea many times...this is how she can get people to fall on their knees before Byron Katie in a parking lot...its about getting total submission.
Byron Katie is utterly ruthless, power corrupts.
---------QUOTE-------------
Every evening I go to bed with the MP3 player with the Mental Cleanse on it (what a brilliant idea!). I listen to the clarity of The Work and of you, and I fall asleep in peace-- peace is what I want in this lifetime, and there is a lot of work to do. I am very happy and starting to get balanced. I am so grateful that I could be a staff member this summer in Bad Neuenahr. I did not speak to you personally then, but I breathed in and out the wonderful, peaceful, clear atmosphere of the School. Everything so well organized, always someone to talk to and to ask a question, always availability. And from me, it just came out of me, without having to do so much. Just gratitude. Being able to experience it.
On my knees, thanking you and me for this gift of life.
Dear Katie, embracing you with love,
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) - Turnaround House, Etc.
Posted by:
helpme2times
()
Date: November 09, 2008 06:43AM
I notice that BK still has that ghastly "Turnaround House" going strong, as well as other events:
[[url=http://www.thework.com/events.asp]Events - The Work of Byron Katie[/url]]
[[url=http://www.thework.com/events.asp]Events - The Work of Byron Katie[/url]]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: November 10, 2008 02:57AM
I'm not sure if the following link has been posted in this thread yet. It may be of interest for those who are still learning and researching the topic of Byron Katie in particular and cult relationship in general.
I don't mean to scapegoat Ms. Skolnick but her intensely personal story has been posted on the Web for anyone interested to read freely. Her story may help to illuminate the process that is involved in 'hopping' from one Guru to another. I'm sure that those who have been following this discussion may be able to pick up on the logical fallacies and hypnotic suggestions embedded within the text.
There's a lot of material in here that I found worth the time to read and dissect.
How Carol Skolnick Became Involved With Byon Katie
I don't mean to scapegoat Ms. Skolnick but her intensely personal story has been posted on the Web for anyone interested to read freely. Her story may help to illuminate the process that is involved in 'hopping' from one Guru to another. I'm sure that those who have been following this discussion may be able to pick up on the logical fallacies and hypnotic suggestions embedded within the text.
There's a lot of material in here that I found worth the time to read and dissect.
How Carol Skolnick Became Involved With Byon Katie
Byron Katie (the Work) Carol L. Skolnick www.clearlifesolutions.com
Posted by:
The Anticult
()
Date: November 10, 2008 04:05AM
yeah, Carol Skolnick seems to be the #1 promoter and recruiter for the Byron Katie system on the internet.
There were some earlier posts about her article,
Going to Work Naked: My Journey to Byron Katie by Carol L. Skolnick
That article is really mapping out a road-map for conversion into the Byron Katie method.
Byron Katie Bathroom Love-Bombing
[forum.culteducation.com]
There were some earlier posts about her article,
Going to Work Naked: My Journey to Byron Katie by Carol L. Skolnick
That article is really mapping out a road-map for conversion into the Byron Katie method.
Byron Katie Bathroom Love-Bombing
[forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
Joel
()
Date: November 10, 2008 04:15AM
Yeah. I think this thread has been very useful for me. I don't think that Carol Skolnick is deliberately embedding hypnotic suggestions into her text, though: I wouldn't go that far. I think she might be putting herself into a form of trance by doing 'the work' on a frequent basis, and projecting the need to do that out onto others, and, of course, having her own deep-seated to make a living in this world.
In my (hopefully) humble opinion, the reason the truth might burn someone to a crisp (her words) is that there isn't one- or not one that can be contained, packaged and sold by one human being to another. Trying to hang on to a concept of such a truth will, I think, inevitably fail and bring pain. Byron Katie sells 'do the work' as the truth.
Byron Katie seems to refute all personal responsibility in her process. It's not me, she says, it's all you: it's all your projections. I have none, she says: 'I'm whatever you say I am'. She has no needs, no desires, no agenda, she says. (Only an international business to run, books to promote, 'schools' to organise, etc, etc.) But, internally, she says she is a vacuum, containing no conflict, no need to do anything, only the radiance of eternal unconditional love. If you wanna buy that, buy it. I went there but I'm changing my mind. Maybe she went there for a while, out of her own crisis, and then moved into whatever she's doing now. She might have a large capacity for self-deception, or forgetting, and no-one close by to remind her. Whatever.
What I do believe: time will always tell. And look after yourself, that's the main thing.
In my (hopefully) humble opinion, the reason the truth might burn someone to a crisp (her words) is that there isn't one- or not one that can be contained, packaged and sold by one human being to another. Trying to hang on to a concept of such a truth will, I think, inevitably fail and bring pain. Byron Katie sells 'do the work' as the truth.
Byron Katie seems to refute all personal responsibility in her process. It's not me, she says, it's all you: it's all your projections. I have none, she says: 'I'm whatever you say I am'. She has no needs, no desires, no agenda, she says. (Only an international business to run, books to promote, 'schools' to organise, etc, etc.) But, internally, she says she is a vacuum, containing no conflict, no need to do anything, only the radiance of eternal unconditional love. If you wanna buy that, buy it. I went there but I'm changing my mind. Maybe she went there for a while, out of her own crisis, and then moved into whatever she's doing now. She might have a large capacity for self-deception, or forgetting, and no-one close by to remind her. Whatever.
What I do believe: time will always tell. And look after yourself, that's the main thing.
Re: Byron Katie (the Work) and Eckhart Tolle Legit??
Posted by:
solea13
()
Date: November 10, 2008 05:32AM
Thanks AC, I must have missed that before somehow or forgotten ...
I'd also like to comment, going back through and re-reading about Ms. Skolnick that the term 'soul surgery', which is the title of her blog, was not new to me.
I heard that phrase a great deal during my own time in a cult. The idea that the Guru (or his delegated representatives) could reach into your soul and pull out all the bad stuff was accepted. What he said or did might hurt but at least it got all the 'poison' out quickly. In fact, it was probably going to save your life, so you couldn't defend yourself. But even doctors use anaesthetics so that they don't cause unnecessary pain or trauma to patients!
Reading that article made me feel quite ill, recognizing my own patterns of thought had been similar, once upon a time. I see so much more clearly how vulnerable people can be to the ideal of unconditional love ... I recognized shameless use of the 'confessional' phase to break people down and make them tap into all that emotional pain, followed by the intense love bombing.
Really terrible.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2008 05:37AM by solea13.
I'd also like to comment, going back through and re-reading about Ms. Skolnick that the term 'soul surgery', which is the title of her blog, was not new to me.
I heard that phrase a great deal during my own time in a cult. The idea that the Guru (or his delegated representatives) could reach into your soul and pull out all the bad stuff was accepted. What he said or did might hurt but at least it got all the 'poison' out quickly. In fact, it was probably going to save your life, so you couldn't defend yourself. But even doctors use anaesthetics so that they don't cause unnecessary pain or trauma to patients!
Reading that article made me feel quite ill, recognizing my own patterns of thought had been similar, once upon a time. I see so much more clearly how vulnerable people can be to the ideal of unconditional love ... I recognized shameless use of the 'confessional' phase to break people down and make them tap into all that emotional pain, followed by the intense love bombing.
Really terrible.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2008 05:37AM by solea13.
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