Corboy, you've reminded me of something I read a while back at Guruphiliac's blog on Byron Katie. A commenter had this to say about the Turnaround Houses (it's dated 4/5/08):

I have always wondered what other info about Byron Kaite was out there. I just Googled "Byron Katie and Cult" ... wow

I have been very close to the situation for some time now. I was a caregiver and personal assistant for the last 16 months for a man who's partner is on the inside of Katie's inner-circle. When I left the older man was placed in a home... and the house turned into a BK Turnaround House, it opens in two weeks. I always wondered why the older man who owns the house was being placed in a home, why not find another caregiver, its his house....

Then I found out that now his house is being used for The Work... it made me ill. The person who the older man gave power of attny. to... was not only his "love" partner... but he is also on the inner circle now of BK.

I used to also help with travel plans when he would assist BK, I ran the house and I was taught how to do The Work, and stood in and taught some of his classes when he left on a trip at a small local Agency he was trying to build... Although I dont want to mention his name... those close to the situation will know exactly who I am speaking of when I say that he speaks several languages and travels with her to different countries and is her translator.

He was also just given the task, he said awarded, in building one of the Turnaround Houses... it's the one in San Francisco. I was just asked this past week to go see if I can assist in setting it all up. I had not heard from this person in several months and thought it quite odd he were to call. When I arrived the whole vibe was really wierd. I could see he had ran out of people to call for help if he was calling me.

I was told what the business structure and income projections will be for the SF House and was asked to help if I could. I had been incharge of the house prior as the caregiver and assistant and at one point was asked to assist in selling the old mans stocks and other assets and know of allot of crap and when I left a few months ago I RAN from this place. I have nothing good to say as I believe this man worked his partner and took him for all he had.

Once again I hear my old boss say its never about the money... what I saw just three days ago was this; the new Turnaround House here in SF is at this point... a joke... my old boss should make another $400-500K in the next 12 months off the Turnaround House ... all while the old man who own's the house is in a retirement home only 16 miles away.

I have seen people get free of pain and suffering with the work she does, and have seen how if used peoperly, can help, I have also been to a three day workshop of hers. But I have to say however, after being the assistant and caregiver in the house that is now being converted to the SF Turnaround House. Im very woried that things are going very wrong. That BK or the people that are close have taken a wrong turn.

I have been with clients after they attend the 9day school, most of what I read in the blog here was some of the very same stuff I have been told as well, I refused to ever go to it myself.

I leave you with this... several people have already paid $20,000 to stay at the SF Turnaround house having no idea what they are in for. This is a very hit and miss situation and lacks ANY real planning, maybe in time??? Please do not send your lived ones to the school or Turnaround house.

PS... does the house here in SF meet Zoning Laws, has a Business Lic. been issued. How about fire and safety occupancy laws, is there Liab. Insurance. Do you have a building permit for the construction going on? I can go on... the answer to these and several other questions I asked him was always... NO,NO.NO.NO....

Look it up for yourself... Today is 4/5/08

I have had to wash my hands from this as although I will always say the "who would you be without your story... and the four questions" etc... is good work and I use it where I am at now... I do believe however... somethings not right in BK town anymore.

Looking at Another Group--See any Similarities?

Just as many argue that the US doesnt use torture, because sleep deprivation and waterboarding do not resemble our stereotyped views of what constitutes torture, it can be very hard to believe that mind control can be accomplished by remote control, not via direct coercion at gunpoint or in a jungle compound.

One tends to assume that mind control is only possible in a group or 'hands on' situation, especially one that is coercive.

Sometimes comparing two different groups and identifying similar trends can empower and deepen our insight and acuity.

For those of us on this thread, it might be an interesting extension of our collective effort at continuing education to look at a first person account by Pierre Freeman, who was a 24 member of a totally different group.

Yet..Freeman describes becoming entranced via methods of self induction that he practiced at home--and reinforced at home. Freeman described a very time consuming and standardized ritual.

But it may be that even if one is encouraged to create one's own original ritual or set of images, those too could become part of a process of ongoing trance induction (similar to what was reported by disillusioned former members of Transcendental Meditation).

Especially if one is instructed to keep these rituals secret. In Freeman's case, he was financially insecure and periodically homeless and estranged from his family for the 24 years he was involved with AMORC.

Quote
From 'The Prisoner of San Jose'
Freeman describes how by creating a home sanctum, something like a tiny temple in your home, using candles and incense while visualizing certain symbols and making certain symbolic gestures, you quickly become hypnotized, a state which enhances your suggestibility and hence the believability of the Rosicrucian claims. The monographs, those weekly lessons, are read religiously in this artificial atmosphere, heightening their effect and altering your personality to be like those compliant souls who have been subjected to the ritual hypnosis of so many cult groups.

“When you receive their weekly lessons, called monographs, you become enthralled with the possibilities. After a short period of time practicing their techniques of visualization and mind control, you come to believe that you have finally discovered what makes the world tick. The problem is that you really have no evidence of that reality, just the continual restatement of that claim.

What has happened is that your personality has been altered by subtle but carefully orchestrated techniques of hypnosis.

[bookflash.com]”

Quote
And
Freeman's experiences with the Rosy Cross (illuminated by many excerpts from the diary he kept during his 24-year mental captivity) will have become a powerful lens for seeing how the aims and strategies of remote indoctrination, which date back to the beginnings of recorded time, are everywhere woven into the fabric of the modern world. His modest account dizzies the imagination by the way it extends our understanding of the term "cult," [bookflash.com]

In a Q&A interview, Freeman commented (in just a small exerpt--read the whole thing)

Quote

How do the techniques of AMORC differ from most religious cults? What is Remote Indoctrination?

AMORC has various Lodges, where members meet, throughout the world. Still, I doubt whether most members attend them regularly. The essence of AMORC’s grip on its disciples, in my opinion, is a correspondence course coupled with certain so-called spiritual exercises, which is at the core of the course.

Religious cults, in general, are very hand-on. Group activities serve initially to fatigue and brainwash the new member. There is very heavy person-to-person influence involved and lots of activities and work to quickly cement the disciple in his affiliation.

AMORC uses another methodology, which I call Remote Indoctrination. Their form of Remote Indoctrination relies on using powerful authoritarian claims, rooted in the various lessons, called Monographs, combined with hypnotic techniques and phobia inducing claims.

I have a 16 Article, somewhat sarcastic, Declaration of Remote Indoctrination, in my book, which describes in detail what is necessary to accomplish this process; namely, brainwashing without a prison cell or powerful group meetings with a charismatic leadership.

It’s quite amazing to experience, but very, very hard to understand if one’s caught up to it. You become a Mind Slave of an external organization without even realizing it.

and (sound familiar, anyone?)

Quote

Why do you think you were forced into poverty and homelessness because of the Order?

If you study the monographs like I did, you begin to see a kind of dualism in them.

On the one hand, they portray membership in the Order as rather easy, involving only a few hours a week of study.

(Corboy's note: It is common for groups to say, 'Oh, just take what you like and leave the rest.' Or 'Just give it a taste')

But if you look carefully, you see something else- a kind of covert agenda, which only the truly serious and faithful student will pick up.

This agenda promises success only to those who truly practice the exercises rigorously and often and continually to review and reread the monographs.

The true adept will be constantly praying and meditating in his home sanctum; adopting a special breathing protocol which he will be constantly practicing, adopting a special posture for sleeping; constantly trying to visualize his goals and see auras- until he achieves his goals.

But since the goals, in my opinion, are simply unachievable due to the deficiency of the teaching, he (the ardent practitioner C) will undertake a course of action that will dominate and control his life.

Quote

You claim that AMORC uses hypnosis on its subjects. Since most of the Rosicrucian members practice at home, how can this possibly happen?

Many experts in Mind Control speak about the way a trance can be induced covertly.

Prayer and meditation which may in certain contexts be valuable religious exercised, used to commune with one’s Deity, can also serve to bring the mind into a state of hypnosis.

The difference between meditation used for a spiritual reason and for a mind control reason is the intention.

In our case, we would be told to read about the authoritarian claims of AMORC at a time of suggestibility which was heightened by candles, incense, certain spiritual postures and rituals and chanting

. I believe these practices made the incredible claims of AMORC much more credible, eventually working deeply in the personality of the member and transforming him into an unconscious servant of the Order.

And..what makes it very difficult to convey these insights is that most of us cant stand to face that we are human and therefore vulnerable/influenceable. We so want to believe and have been socialized to regard ourselves as invulnerable, hard shelled atoms, impervious to outside influence, flattering ourselves 'It could never happen to me, I'd never be so weak.'

Buy into that, and you're far more vulnerable than someone who knows that as humans and social animals our glory and our danger is prescisely that we can be influenced, given the right set of circumstances.

And that because we are in relationships, we, and people we care about are going to get old, get sick, and die--and that means from time to time, we are going to feel lonesome and heartbroken.

Or, have plenty of reason to worry about financial welfare.

Freeman had all of that going on, and sought through AMORC to become master of his fate.

And is now trying to tell us what he learned about remote controlled trance induction.

Quote

What role does hypnosis play in AMORC? How are their practices of meditation and prayer related to hypnosis?

I think hypnosis, in the form of self-hypnosis, plays a subtle but powerful role in AMORC, particularly in the prescribed times in the Home Sanctum. Trance is induced in various ways and a message driven in by the authoritarian, monolithic authority of the monographs. Both meditation and prayer involve an opening up of the mind to Divinity, to higher authority. If that concept is twisted in the right way, these spiritual tools can be used to condition the mind to specific objectives by the human authority that controls the mind of the meditator or petitioner. Instead of creating spiritual communion, these tools will heighten suggestibility.
[bookflash.com]

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2008 10:46PM by corboy.

The thing that stands out to me is that there's so much controversy over her/her "Work."
There's alot of negative things being said about her and what she does. Look at just the blog above. Not that controversy hasn't followed great people in history, too, but in general I find that if it walks like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's strongly and most-likely a duck.
I think "real" people, who are simple, good and kind don't generally have that much controversary swirling around them or their name. They don't need a crowd, adoration or alot of money. They just do good works and let it be. They usually are low profile people, too.
She has alot of chaos around her, doubts, people unsure/confused, etc. This isn't a good sign for anyone worth listening to. Why would you risk your psyche on someone who generates all of this doubt??

And of course, Eckhart Tolle and "The Power of Now" is mentioned this week in Newsweek....It seems that Rielle Hunter, the mistress of the failed presidential hopeful John Edwards, is big into Eckart Tolle and thinks it is her mission to spread the word. Here's the story link:

[www.newsweek.com]

Quote
Sparky
And of course, Eckhart Tolle and "The Power of Now" is mentioned this week in Newsweek....It seems that Rielle Hunter, the mistress of the failed presidential hopeful John Edwards, is big into Eckart Tolle and thinks it is her mission to spread the word. Here's the story link:

[www.newsweek.com]

Wow, very interesting. Thank you, Sparky!

Alas, Byron Katie's work is spreading:

[[url=http://www.coachinginteractive.com/TheWork/bk1.asp]The Work on the Web of Byron Katie[/url]]

"The Work on the Web is a unique, innovative online coaching tool that gives you everything you need in order to do The Work: materials, videos, support, and examples. It's designed to inspire you to deepen your inquiries and get powerful – even life-changing – results."

"Special launch offer: only $27 for three months use. Buy now."

PLEASE READ posts previous to this one for an alternative view of Byron Katie and her "work".

Dear H, your mail box is full. Get the Drano.

C

Quote
corboy
Dear H, your mail box is full. Get the Drano.

C

Done! God that thing fills up fast!

Quote
The AntiCult
I literally cannot stand Byron Katies voice anymore at this point, its like verbal waterboarding.

"Verbal Waterboarding. This gets my vote for best metaphor/analogy (not sure what to call it but it made me laugh).

Also, thanks to whoever posted info about David Burn's books. I think more than one of you did. I've got the "Feeling Good" paperback in my library. I dusted it off and am re-reading it. It's amazing how deceptively effective down-to-earth advice is. And how we overlook it in favor of the "wizard behind the curtain" approach. It's also interesting, and sad, to note, as many of you have, how a lot of these gurus, BK being a prime but certainly not the only example, distort and pervert otherwise sound psychological advice for fun and profit. And how much profit they siphon out of our wallets when we could have curled up with a $7.95 paperback and some binder paper and a pen and worked through many of our distorted thoughts on our own (which I've been doing all week for my fun and no one else's profit)

a votre sante,

JB

I have to agree with you that Byron Katie is dangerous. I would have to ask, Would you go to an unlicensed psychiatrist and let them do therapy on you? Would you let them hypnotize you and reprogram your core beliefs? (assuming you have a core belief that you can be hypnotized). She turns you loose to reprogram yourself.

Our core beliefs are what make up who we are. They are given to us partly by our parents, our peers, and our society. Some of them are unspoken, and these are the ones I have been most troubled by. Once you have these core beliefs, they influence you. They put pressure on you to do certain things, make decisions certain ways, to stay within certain limits.

Now getting back to Byron Katie (What the heck kind of name is that anyway for a women, or is there something I don;t know about Byron?). Her "Work" (I have been involved in cults before, and they all have something called, "The Work", "The Great WOrk", or something such as that) involves questioning your core beliefs, and if they cause you any stress (subjective), she suggests that first you deny they are true, or that you could even know they were true, and having decided they are false, since you can never absolutely prove anything is true, arbitrarily reverse them to the opposite state. And she suggests you should do this on your own, without a counselor, because it is "Your Business".

Now I think that the parents meant well and probably set quite a few core beliefs based on their family values, religious orientation, and societal influences. The parents would probably be aghast to think their child was flipping values randomly, because it felt good to do so. Beyond that, here is an example that appeals to me.

[...]

In short, the Work creates sociopaths. If you remove any core belief that restrains you in any way, and you feel totally free to do whatever you like, without guilt, you become a monster and a menace to society.

In summary, I find her dangerous, ignorant, thoughtless of the consequences. I see her growing rich meddling with the programming of the human core values. Her WORK is as likely to destroy the lives of the adherents as improve it. There are always a few success stories, but you have to study the results before you can call it science. And some things are believed because we were taught to believe, and that belief forms a bond between us that is important. It is the basis of our society, and the basis of our worship. You can't just flip your values because it feels good. Our core values were developed over thousands of years, and some are repressive. Some are difficult, but the struggle to come into balance with these values is what builds character. In my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2008 01:16AM by rrmoderator.