i just read some of the messages at the Guruphiliac Blog; man alive, what a bunch of hoowey - don't people have better things to do with their time than spend it at these crazy workshops, like perhaps they could go out and help old people do their grocery shopping...there are tons of ways to do good other than giving your personal possessions to complete strangers, etc. ...sheeeesh.....

heaven sakes people, GET A GRIP!

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The Shadow
i just read some of the messages at the Guruphiliac Blog; man alive, what a bunch of hoowey - don't people have better things to do with their time than spend it at these crazy workshops, like perhaps they could go out and help old people do their grocery shopping...there are tons of ways to do good other than giving your personal possessions to complete strangers, etc. ...sheeeesh.....

heaven sakes people, GET A GRIP!

Uh, Shadow, you are utterly downplaying the immense power of LGATs, AND blaming the victim. Perhaps you'd do well to "get a grip" yourself.

one other point...is that helping to creating an environment of confusion around a specific LGAT seminar, is actually promoting that seminar.
For example, this is what Landmark Forum does. If you go and ask anyone who helps promote it, what's it all about, you will get a string of confusing comments, jargon, conflicting statements, controversy, etc.
This is called...

Pogrammed Confusion.

Its part of the process to confuse you, and create uncertainty, and a fog of confusion about what it is, and how it works.
This is what the Byron Katie people do.
They make it sound mysterious, and confusing, and about Love, God, or something.

Like Landmark, they HIDE the curriculum, and keep it secret.
But more importantly, they always refuse to talk about the TECHNIQUES they use on people.

If one looks at the information on the Guruphiliac blog from the Byron Katie Insider, The Mystery Man, its a bunch of psychobabble. (probably what he was trained to say). They say its about coming out of yourself, blah blah. Utter nonsense. Posting that kind of info without systematically taking it apart piece by piece right in the same area, I qualify as promoting that seminar. I don't see Rick Ross posting that type of confusing jargon about LGAT's without explaining each part of it.

Its all just meant as Programmed Confusion, as the only way the LGAT works is when you are not AWARE of what they are doing to you.

LGATS, and the Byron KAtie LGAT is very complex.
Yet it is also simple.

They want to get a Large Group of people into the tent, and then use covert Techniques without your Awareness, to get you to do what they want you to do, and make you THINK you chose it.

That it why it is so utterly offensive to me for someone to claim it Voluntary.
That's simply a blatant, bald-faced, vicious lie. Period. Its the opposite of voluntary and full disclosure. Its about covert manipulation of the unwary, and it works best on the most suggestible who don't know anything about it.

So to help to create confusion around it, is promoting it. That is all they need, and confusion works to their advantage. What they hate is when they tactics are exposed, and explained, as that can stop them from working.

Regarding the Guruphiliac post on ET alluded to above:

Over the years Mr Ross has comported himself in a steady and gentlemanly manner---even when under pressure and baited by trolls.

Because Mr Ross conducted RR.com in an adult and decorous manner, and by maintaining high journalistic standards, RR.com earned and attracted legal advocacy in its hour of need---and by maintaining its polite and informative tone----is still here today.

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corboy
Regarding the Guruphiliac post on ET alluded to above:

Over the years Mr Ross has comported himself in a steady and gentlemanly manner---even when under pressure and baited by trolls.

Because Mr Ross conducted RR.com in an adult and decorous manner, and by maintaining high journalistic standards, RR.com earned and attracted legal advocacy in its hour of need---and by maintaining its polite and informative tone----is still here today.

People. This is the age of the internet. The age of the blog. Rick Ross is a professional and has been doing this for years. Jody makes no claim to be an expert on ANYTHING or to even be a journalist. He's just a guy who went through the cult wringer, survived it, and writes a blog. That's it. It's not what HE posts that counts so much as the stories he links to, which often expose the gurus he posts about, sometimes in the guru's OWN STUPID WORDS. Is he crass sometimes? Sure. Harsh? Sure. "Unprofessional". I'll grant you that. But, he is an ally in the effort to take down bogus gurus a notch or two and not worth an OUNCE of venom that should be put on folks like Katie OR Tolle. The guy likened Katie's operation to a CIA rendition site and that isn't enough for you?

Give the guy some time before comparing him to Rick Ross. Jeez.

BOTTOM LINE: IF YOU DON'T LIKE JODY'S BLOG, DON'T READ IT.

helpme2times,

Thank you. I wonder how many people coming out of cults (of any kind) fail to get the help they need because of attitudes like the one Shadow has expressed? There's nothing like being told you're stupid for your involvement in the cult, after it's completely destroyed your sense of self! OUCH! That ought to be enough to make people go running back to their cult.

Anticult,

I like what you are saying about Programmed Confusion. Byron Katie and her followers are VERY confusing people. And, it definitely serves a purpose. It leaves you wondering, and doubting yourself... and makes you want to understand, so you try a little harder to "get it".

I remember telling someone at The School how strange it was that BK seemed so confused. She stammers often, and blinks and nods... like a robot trying to process or retrieve the information you requested... There were times when she answered someone's question, and it had absolutely NOTHING to do with the question at all. I thought maybe she was just going senile or something... but I see now that it was purposeful.

The person that I said that to responded with wonderment, "Oh, Katie, it's a different kind of mind. She's on a different level that we can't understand."

I felt like someone had just stuck a plunger in my ear and mushed around my brains. I started doubting myself, and listening more intently to BK, too. After all, wasn't "BK is confused" just a projection of myself???

If I had a dollar for every person I saw sitting there with that blank look of utter confusion on their face... well, I would have my money back from The School!

-jj

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The Anticult

They say its about coming out of yourself, blah blah. Utter nonsense.

Isn't that statement in itself a tip-off that something is wrong with The Work?
Why would anyone want to "come out of themselves"?
Wouldn't "coming out of yourself" be akin to dissociation?
And wouldn't that explain why so many people lose touch with reality through The Work?

Like ralpher who tells us we need to question things, and we are... but he is not?

"Dissociation is a state of acute mental decompensation in which certain thoughts, emotions, sensations, and/or memories are compartmentalized because they are too overwhelming for the conscious mind to integrate. This subconscious strategy for managing powerful negative emotions is sometimes referred to as "splitting", as these thoughts, emotions, sensations, and/or memories are "split off" from the integrated ego." [wikipedia]


"Coming out of yourself" = dissociation ?

The Work is all about projecting. It promises to help you find your projections and turn them around, so you can live in reality. But, deep involvement actually does something very different.

"Psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism in which one attributes to others one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them." [wikipedia]

It seems to me like The Work makes you "come out of yourself" or dissociate... to project more... in order to "reduce anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them."

It's no wonder people report less stress and anxiety through The Work. And why they seem so utterly contradictory, confused, and blind to the obvious after The School.

Personally, I'd rather be miserable and be in myself, than be blissed out and dissociated. I guess that's why it didn't work for me! I'll take good ol' fashion stress any day over "coming out of myself."

-jj



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2008 02:06AM by jj52.

I recently heard of Byron Katie and Tolle, never really thought of them as frauds, it's sad how we've been conditioned to accept what we see in the media as legit. There are some excellent points being made here...I need to be more skeptical.

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shakti
"Its doubtful this is about "friendship". There is solid information that some visitors to the Guruphiliac blog were referred to The Work coaching through this BK Insider, and then to Byron Katie School LGAT. Is there a commission there of any sort? "

-What's your source on this? At this point, you are just flying off the handle and making up conspiracies.

Oh crikey, I am the "source". But I've been misrepresented. I think it was an honest mistake. Let's see if I can straighten this out.

In the midst of private messaging with a few people involved in this thread, I let it be known that I was the person who emailed Jody about the negative reports on Byron Katie so that he would blog about her at Guruphiliac. I also mentioned in some of the private messages that I knew who Jody's friend was that was affiliated with Byron Katie's organization. (Formerly it seems.) And that I had some phone sessions with Jody's friend, which involved Byron Katie's work among other things.

Let me be real clear here: I never told anyone that I thought Jody or his friend were involved in any kind of recruiting or commission making. Somehow someone jumped to that conclusion. I do not know of any evidence to support this.

I hope this clears up what seems to be an unfortunate misunderstanding. Sorry I didn't say anything sooner.

One more thing: I do like SOME things about "The Work" but do NOT recommend getting involved with Byron Katie's organization based on the negative reports that have been coming out.

Regards,
Jeanne

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helpme2times

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The Shadow
i just read some of the messages at the Guruphiliac Blog; man alive, what a bunch of hoowey - don't people have better things to do with their time than spend it at these crazy workshops, like perhaps they could go out and help old people do their grocery shopping...there are tons of ways to do good other than giving your personal possessions to complete strangers, etc. ...sheeeesh.....

heaven sakes people, GET A GRIP!

Uh, Shadow, you are utterly downplaying the immense power of LGATs, AND blaming the victim. Perhaps you'd do well to "get a grip" yourself.

Hi helpme2times;
i can see why you would perceive my admonition as "blaming the victims"- i agree, in and of itself it does sound like that; it was late last night that i wrote that and i did not want to get into a huge diatribe. I absolutely DO NOT downplay the immense power of LGATs, so i disagree with you statement that i am "utterly downplaying" their power.

First of all, when one looks as a person as a "victim" one immediately puts them in a place where they lack power. So to continue to refer to people as victims perpetuates their victimization.

Last year I had someone very close to me who got involved with Landmark/EST and I spent a lot of time on the rickross message boards and i learnt a lot and i recieved a lot of emotional support, so i am sorry that i have given you the impression that i support or legitimize LGATs, because i absolutely DO NOT.

However, I think at some point we ALL have to take responsibility for ourselves, and that was the purpose of my comment. I would like people to seek out areas where they get satisfaction and self-fullfillment BEFORE they get sucked into this giant LGAT vortex. I do believe that we have evolved into a society of people who want thing RIGHT NOW, we have no patience, and we are unable to tolerate pain. We want it all and we think we are entitled to it all. I do not support that belief, but that is a whole different topic.

I read the messages on the Guruphialiac Blog and they seemed like a lot of disgruntled ramblings, but maybe it was just because it was late at night and i was tired, they did not make a lot of sense to me and I would not go back to that Blog and I would not post my own message on that Blog.

Your point is well taken, and I hope that i have been able to correct the perception you drew from my previous message.

regards,
Shad

p.s. Apropo to nothing in particular, here is a quote that i heard some time ago, i don't remember who said it but i quite like it: "Corporate Greed is the bleeding heart of America"