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Re: Islamic Sufism -- Issues and Incidents
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 30, 2018 10:26AM

Here is a link to an expose blog on what its author terms the "Nazimites" - his reference to the group led by Nazim.

Persons formerly involved are better informed as to its accuracy.

Nazim al Qubrusi & Hisham Kabbani by : Abou Houdhayfah

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When they think that a murid has been sufficiently entangled in their emotional ties, that he has reached the level where the sheikh is not seen any more through Islam, but Islam through the sheikh - remember here that most of them had very little previous knowledge, if any in the case of converts - they start disclosing beliefs which this person would have been unable to accept before. At that moment, it makes him feel special, as if he was progressing spiritually. The final stage of conditioning is when the murid judges his or her progress by the distance with official belief and law. The further they are, the higher they think to have ascended. This delusion is reinforced among some by hallucinations, self-hypnosis and unusual phenomena which they are unable to interpret correctly, such as contacts with jinns who let them believe what is useful for them. The person who has reached that stage has fallen in complete zandaqah, outside the fold of Islam. Reports we have from former Nazimites show that there is quite a number of them.

Followers are encouraged to take part in the cover up. Hisham Kabbani wrote[28]: “He must not mention from the speeches of his shaikh what listeners cannot understand. This might harm the shaikh in a way of which the disciple is unaware. Ali (^alayhi ssalâm) said in a tradition narrated in Bukhari, “Speak to people at a level they can understand, because you do not want them to deny God and His Prophet (salla-llâhu ^alayhi wasallam)”.” The last quote is correct, but it was not meant to hide secrets which contradict Islam.

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Nazim al-Qubrusi did not write books himself. This fact is used by his followers to protect him from blame. In order to deflect harm they even explain how such book was actually written by a Jew who used to be a murîd or by somebody else. The reality is that the publications we quote from were used among them up to 1995 at least.

Everything we report has come to us through five channels:
1: Nazim’s followers and disciples, whom we call ‘Nazimites’,
2: People who have left the movement, sometimes called ‘ex-Nazimites’.
3: Direct or indirect reports from people who have met them or gone to their places and meetings.
4: Publications commonly used by his followers, distributed by them inside or outside their ranks. They have altered at least one[2] and I have a feeling many of Nazim’s lectures are being phased out, if only to reflect H. Kabbani’s takeover
5: Tapes of some of his sessions, which we obtained mainly through a former disciple. You will notice a difference between the quality of Nazim’s English in books and that of the tapes. This is probably due to the corrections made by the disciples when they put his teaching in writing. Nevertheless, what is heard on the tapes (I have tried to transcribe them as faithfully as possible as the quality of the sound allowed me to) shows that his English is good enough to understand what is going on around him and to know what is in the publications of his followers.
Hisham Kabbani is doing his best to erase the many traces of Nazim’s blunders (especially the dated predictions of the coming of the Mehdi). It was reported to me how he confiscated Zero Thyra Quensel’s tapes and was forced to return them by the lady’s obstinate persistence.
6: Their sites on the Internet and their friends’.
Ambiguity is raised to the level of an art in sects, especially in fake Sufi orders such as Nazim’s, so we have tried to restrict ourselves to the clearest statements available. On the other hand, when they feel safe, they do express their real ideas openly. One just needs to wait and search.

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10
THEIR EVADING PLOYS


When faced with questions or accusations, the first aim of Nazimites is to protect their sheikh. Al-Qubrusi is the base of the whole system, on him it stands and without him it might crumble down. If he shook, their whole universe would quake, so anything unfriendly is warded off by all possible means. For this reason, the transition to Hisham Kabbani is being prepared long in advance.

The first reaction of Nazimites, when their sheikh stands accused, is often to deny anything happened or was said. If they cannot do that they will point to other people as guilty of the fault, claiming even that there are some very strange people around their sheikh who are hypocrites working against him, or that those who wrote his words misinterpreted them. Yet, the controversial books and tapes which shock Muslims have not stopped being used and spread openly among them for years. Why did Nazim not do anything against them, for it is established that he can read English[17].

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I have noticed since 1995 a more organised approach to propaganda, less blunders and embarrassing disclosures by ill-disciplined followers.

Back in 1995 and the following years, we strongly suspected that things were hidden from us because of the strange reactions and contradictions encountered among Nazimites. Each time we thought we had discovered evidence of heresies in their books we were told that such publication was not authorised any more, that another was about to be revised, that the author was somebody who had left Nazim since, etc. They had a very evasive strategy which delayed our gathering of information. They also constantly dodged our attempts to have an encounter in a neutral place.

Our suspicions were confirmed eventually by an important murid of the inner circles who decided to leave them and explicitly described a system in which very different things are said to various audiences. The stories told to non Muslims are very different indeed from those given to Muslims, and inside the organisation, the teaching imparted to established members is shockingly at odds with what is granted to common followers. Even old murids are at different levels.

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Re: Islamic Sufism -- Issues and Incidents
Posted by: Sarah_me ()
Date: July 30, 2018 06:51PM

Whatever is mentioned here, I can testify it. What was disturbing the most were remarks about evilness of democracy. My husband who spent more time in these circles told me how often they would sit around the table of the shaykh, who was representative of Naqshibandis, somewhere in Europe, would choose not to mention which country, and discuss how democracy will soon collapse and monarcy will come to the rule. Mureeds who were following this shaykh were trained to learn new skills for the big monarchs, some of them were trained to be cooks in the king’s court, some of them to be craftsman etc. Kings and queens were worshipped, because according to the teachings of shaykh Nazim they are all descendants of prophet Muhammed.

Completely another version was told when visiting government’s authorities, their evilness was not mentioned, but they were flattered to be peace makers. Ottoman empire was not mentioned either, as the final form of God’s government on earth.

Government’s figures were not told that Ottoman empire will be established again, and when Mehdi comes, he will bring its glory back to the life, and yes when the big world’s forces start the nuclear war, he will come with his sword to stop it. People around this shaykh will be in the inner circle of Mehdi, everyone outside will be left to misery. That’s why it is very important that people join this shaykh, leave all and come to live with him in the mountains. Civilisation outside is evil and will be destroyed any time. The only salavation is coming through him and service to him, as he is instructed to do so by his dead shaykh Nazim. This confirms statememt about different story for followers and different story for outsiders.

Shaykh Mehmet who is currently the only authorised representative of shaykh Nazim was not much mentioned by this shaykh. Because my impression was he was hoping to get the title of shaykh’s Nazim representative.

I heard from close members of this shaykh how he used to ridicule shaykh Mehmet, asking why he was not chosen, because he claimed to know better than him, and that he did more for shaykh Nazim etc. That shows high degree of jealousy and animosity between the group.

Once I was attending the dinner in the circle of this shaykh, and he said all kids should be silent, because their noises are interuppting the connection with shaykh Nazim in the grave. Well, man has his firm beliefs. That showed basically he was not accepting shaykh Mehmet as his spiritual guide.

What was very disturbing for me was seeing shaykh Mehmet praising this man, givng him credits for a good job and calling him his good servant. I was thinking this must be a joke, because this man hated him to death.
I was thinking shaykh Mehmet is probably still very naive, still has not realised who were the snakes in his group.

So much hypocrisy, lies... list can go on and on. Why? Can anyone answer?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2018 07:15PM by Sarah_me.

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Re: Islamic Sufism -- Issues and Incidents
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: July 30, 2018 09:22PM

Please be kind and loving to yourself.

The Nazimites are predators and very clever at recruitment.

Had you been told at the beginning exactly what these people teach and believe, you would never have become involved.

No. They are too clever to do this. They are experts with years of experience. They can tell exactly when people have become just enough empotionally involved
that they can say, ignore the internet, these are former disciples who are envious.

They recruit through friendship, they exploit trustful relationships. They probably show up at social gatherings, are quietly present in universities and masjids and community organizations -- any event where people gather to celebrate, mourn. Perhaps they run businesses such as bookstores and cafes where people gather.

Clever recruiters may take years to establish your trust. They may never recruit you at all unless you show signs you are useful to them or you become useful to them by inheriting money or getting a good degree.

As that blog indicates, they may well begin by seeming exemplary Muslims and will excel at the sensuously beautiful parts of worship, make a parade of learning.

If you are fluent in Arabic but not in classical Persian, the recruiter will know how to quote and give commentary on Rumi and Hujawiri.

If you are fluent in Turkish, the recruiter will flaunt his expertise in classical Arabic.

They may know how to use language to induce trance and drop suggestions that influence the content of your dreams.

For comparison, there is a book describing Mubarak Sahib, a Naqshibandi sufi sheikh, now deceased, who served only God, taught and lived by the shariah.

No talk about the mehdi.

All one need do is read Embattled Saints: My Year With the Sufis in Afghanistan
by Kenneth Lizzio.

[www.google.com]

Professor Lizzo was trained as an anthropologist. He found that the frameworks provided by anthropology were insufficient to account for sufi life, and at great personal risk lived in the Khyber with disciples of Saif ur-Rahman and became a disciple himself.

Lizzo candidly tells us that he heard many stories and witnessed many things that could not be accounted for using academic catagories. He also makes clear how difficult and strenuous life was if one lived as a disciple in Saif ur-Rahman's khanqh. The diet was meager in the extreme. There was little privacy at night. One rose before dawn and turned in at 10 PM.

Mubarak Sahib (now deceased) lived a life of constant hardship and mourned the hundreds of disciples and teachers who had been killed in Afghanistan.

He severely rebuked any displays of servility toward himself.

Lizzo described the life and career of a renowned Naqhshibandi pir, who was born in Afghanistan and had to leave after the Commununist regime change in that nation.

The history, and methods of Naqhshibandi sufi practice are described in detail in clear and lucid language. Lizzo notes how many Sufi teachers studied with masters in other lineages (Qadiri, Suhrawardi, Chishti), and how his Naqhshanbdi pir was able to assess the need of each disciple and knew how to prescribe methods from
a variety of Sufi traditions.

In the days when more pirs were present to lead such events, all night
dhikr sessions took place Thursdays. By the time Lizzio came to live at the
Abu Murshid khanqh, most of these pirs were dead or too old.

The khanaqh (lodge) was open to all - it was not a swank, member's only establishment.

The pir (Sufi leader) did not surround himself only with those who agreed with him. Those opposed to Sufism visited regularly.

Lizzo described the life and career of a renowned Naqhshibandi pir, who was born in Afghanistan and had to leave after the Commununist regime change in that nation.

The history, and methods of Naqhshibandi sufi practice are described in detail in clear and lucid language. Lizzo notes how many Sufi teachers studied with masters in other lineages (Qadiri, Suhrawardi, Chishti), and how his Naqhshanbdi pir was able to assess the need of each disciple and knew how to prescribe methods from
a variety of Sufi traditions.

Professor Lizzo was trained as an anthropologist. He found that the frameworks provided by anthropology were insufficient to account for sufi life, and at great personal risk lived in the Khyber with disciples of Saif ur-Rahman and became a disciple himself.

Lizzo candidly tells us that he heard many stories and witnessed many things that could not be accounted for using academic catagories. He also makes clear how difficult and strenuous life was if one lived as a disciple in Saif ur-Rahman's khanqh. The diet was meager in the extreme. There was little privacy at night. One rose before dawn and turned in at 10 PM.

In the days when more pirs were present to lead such events, all night
dhikr sessions took place Thursdays. By the time Lizzio came to live at the
Abu Murshid khanqh, most of these pirs were dead or too old.

The khanaqh (lodge) was open to all - it was not a swank, member's only establishment.

The pir (Sufi leader) did not surround himself only with those who agreed with him. Those opposed to Sufism visited regularly.

"Like the khanaqhs of the past, the Bara khanaqah was open to all. And so they came on a regular basis: spiritual wayfarers, Muslims seeking personal guidance or a blessing, politicians, clerics, even the pir's opponents. (Corboy italics)

"..there were opponents of Sufism, usually fundamentalists, who came to debate
the pir. Some of them showed up, unannounced, and the debates were informal; others were formal, scheduled debates held under the verandah. Whatever the setting, the debates were always in Pashto, and always animated.Whereas his opponents were not well educated, the pir spoke Arabic, Persian and Pashto.
the debate, the pir would quote from this or that text, sending disciples here and
there to fetch books so he could quote from them at length. More than once,
the pir summoned me to show that his influence extended all the way to
America. Some of the debates became heated, and when guests began to raise their
voices angrily, everyone became uncomfortable, particularly the pir's bodyguards."

"Some Pakistanis came on Friday to pray in the company of a 'divine" by were not themselves Sufis. They either did not feel the need or were not prepared to make the kind of commitment required.

"Many mujahiddin (Afghanis who were fighting the Soviets) also came to see the pir. They came into the mosque on makeshift crutches or, if they were lucky, on crude prostheses made by a German charitable organization in Peshawar. They displayed not the least self-pity for their condition. The pir, however, was always visibly shaken to see his disciples in such condition."

Here is a page from Embattled Saints describing the routine.

[books.google.com]

Despite being in his seventies and very ill, Pir ur-Rahman kept a strenuous
regime.

Lizzo also tells how Sirhindi, a most important Naqshibandi Sufi took particular care to warn against importing servile veneration of Pirs, Murshids and Sheikhs, for he noted that this servility was a contamination of Hindu bhakti practice common in India and that this corrupted the disciple/pir relationship by turning the pir into an object of worship -- utterly forbidden in Islam and therefore true Sufism.

Embattled Saints also gives the reader valuable background in modern reform and revivalist movements in Islam which have led to persecution of Sufis or caused
deterioration into servile veneration of monarchical pirs and murshids. Lizzo noted that in Pakistan many sufi lineages have lost spiritual vitality and the successor pirs are merely rich landholdes who absorb money from disciples and
influence local politics.

"One time, an old Afghan man, impoverished and decrepit, came into the mosque during suhbat. He slowly crawled on his belly like a reptile toward the pir, sobbing and moaning. It was a heartbreaking display, and I imagined the man must have suffered a great loss in the war. I expected the pir to take pity on the wretched figure before him. Instead (the pir) chided him for his abject
behavior. Later, I was told that this kind of behavior --pir worship--is forbidden
by the sunna." page 188

Embattled Saints is all the more moving because we are given the social and historical context in which Lizzio's pir and his fellow disciples lived and practiced. Hundreds of thousands of sufis were singled out for extermination in Afghanistan after the communist takeover. Lizzo's pir escaped only because he had
a friend in government circles who gave him timely warning to escape.

The pir was Islam personified.

[books.google.com]

The pir lived by the daily routine of Islam - and added additional exercises.

[books.google.com]

"I never" Lizzio writes "I never saw the pir even once do something that contradicted teaching or that appeared to stem from a selfish whim or personal mood. Even though every disciple was at a different stage of his or her development, the pir's treatment of others was consistently measured by the extent to which they lived up to the teachings. Perhaps for this reason, he treated the more advanced practitioners more harshly...there was never any special treatment at the khanquah or favored treatment for advanced disciples."

The pir once spent 30 minutes berating a senior disciple for misquoting the Quran.

"What Mubarak Sahib said to one, he said to all."

"One Friday afternoon, for no particular reason, there was almost no one present for prayer. I later remarked to Ihsan how disheartening it was that more Muslims did not come to khanquah. "It doesn't matter" he said. "Whether there is one disciple standing behind him or one thousand, Mubarak Sahib will still come each day to the mosque and lead the prayer."

(Embattled Saints, pp 1919-192)

"Disciples never talked in the khanaquah about the pir's ability to perform miracles. Such talk was regarded as sensationalist and a distraction from spiritual work on ourselves. " (Ibid, p 195)

The pir lived with the anguish of having lost thousands of friends and disciples, and he cared for refugees and for disciples who were mujaheed. After relocating
in the Khyber, the pir and community endured increasing harassment by a fundamentalist community nearby; eventually the entire tariqua was ordered to leave, and they all relocated to Lahore.

Above all, Lizzo tells us in detail how "Mubarak Sahib" -- the honorific given to
Saif ur-Raman passed his days."Like the khanaqhs of the past, the Bara khanaqah was open to all. And so they came on a regular basis: spiritual wayfarers, Muslims seeking personal guidance or a blessing, politicians, clerics, even the pir's opponents. (Corboy italics)

"..there were opponents of Sufism, usually fundamentalists, who came to debate
the pir. Some of them showed up, unannounced, and the debates were informal; others were formal, scheduled debates held under the verandah. Whatever the setting, the debates were always in Pashto, and always animated.Whereas his opponents were not well educated, the pir spoke Arabic, Persian and Pashto.
the debate, the pir would quote from this or that text, sending disciples here and
there to fetch books so he could quote from them at length. More than once,
the pir summoned me to show that his influence extended all the way to
America. Some of the debates became heated, and when guests began to raise their
voices angrily, everyone became uncomfortable, particularly the pir's bodyguards."

"Some Pakistanis came on Friday to pray in the company of a 'divine" by were not themselves Sufis. They either did not feel the need or were not prepared to make the kind of commitment required.

"Many mujahiddin (Afghanis who were fighting the Soviets) also came to see the pir. They came into the mosque on makeshift crutches or, if they were lucky, on crude prostheses made by a German charitable organization in Peshawar. They displayed not the least self-pity for their condition. The pir, however, was always visibly shaken to see his disciples in such condition."[/quote]

Here is a page from Embattled Saints describing the routine.

[books.google.com]

Despite being in his seventies and very ill, Pir ur-Rahman kept a strenuous
regime.

Lizzo also tells how Sirhindi, a most important Naqshibandi Sufi took particular care to warn against importing servile veneration of Pirs, Murshids and Sheikhs, for he noted that this servility was a contamination of Hindu bhakti practice common in India and that this corrupted the disciple/pir relationship by turning the pir into an object of worship -- utterly forbidden in Islam and therefore true Sufism.

Embattled Saints also gives the reader valuable background in modern reform and revivalist movements in Islam which have led to persecution of Sufis or caused
deterioration into servile veneration of monarchical pirs and murshids. Lizzo noted that in Pakistan many sufi lineages have lost spiritual vitality and the successor pirs are merely rich landholdes who absorb money from disciples and
influence local politics.

Quote

"One time, an old Afghan man, impoverished and decrepit, came into the mosque during suhbat. He slowly crawled on his belly like a reptile toward the pir, sobbing and moaning. It was a heartbreaking display, and I imagined the man must have suffered a great loss in the war. I expected the pir to take pity on the wretched figure before him. Instead (the pir) chided him for his abject
behavior. Later, I was told that this kind of behavior --pir worship--is forbidden
by the sunna." page 188

Embattled Saints is all the more moving because we are given the social and historical context in which Lizzio's pir and his fellow disciples lived and practiced. Hundreds of thousands of sufis were singled out for extermination in Afghanistan after the communist takeover. Lizzo's pir escaped only because he had
a friend in government circles who gave him timely warning to escape.

The pir was Islam personified.

[books.google.com]

The pir lived by the daily routine of Islam - and added additional exercises.

[books.google.com]

Quote

"I never" Lizzio writes "I never saw the pir even once do something that contradicted teaching or that appeared to stem from a selfish whim or personal mood. Even though every disciple was at a different stage of his or her development, the pir's treatment of others was consistently measured by the extent to which they lived up to the teachings. Perhaps for this reason, he treated the more advanced practitioners more harshly...there was never any special treatment at the khanquah or favored treatment for advanced disciples."

The pir once spent 30 minutes berating a senior disciple for misquoting the Quran.

Quote

"What Mubarak Sahib said to one, he said to all."

"One Friday afternoon, for no particular reason, there was almost no one present for prayer. I later remarked to Ihsan how disheartening it was that more Muslims did not come to khanquah. "It doesn't matter" he said. "Whether there is one disciple standing behind him or one thousand, Mubarak Sahib will still come each day to the mosque and lead the prayer."

(Embattled Saints, pp 1919-192)

Quote

"Disciples never talked in the khanaquah about the pir's ability to perform miracles. Such talk was regarded as sensationalist and a distraction from spiritual work on ourselves. " (Ibid, p 195)

The pir lived with the anguish of having lost thousands of friends and disciples, and he cared for refugees and for disciples who were mujaheed. After relocating
in the Khyber, the pir and community endured increasing harassment by a fundamentalist community nearby; eventually the entire tariqua was ordered to leave, and they all relocated to Lahore.

Above all, Lizzo tells us in detail how "Mubarak Sahib" -- the honorific given to
Saif ur-Raman passed his days.

--------------------------

It might be worthwhile to look around and see if there exist any
programs designed to educate families and congregations about how to
tell if something is bogus Islam, bogus sufism.

Yes, there are warnings against gossip and slander, but is it gossip and slander
to say, stay away from this alley way, people are getting robbed there?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2018 09:41PM by corboy.

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Re: Islamic Sufism -- Issues and Incidents
Posted by: RyanMauro1986 ()
Date: August 02, 2018 01:14PM

There's a major Sufi cult in America (led by a cleric in Pakistan) that used to be named Jamaat ul-Fuqra. It is now known as Muslims of the Americas (or Muslims of America).

Key members are actually running for political office now and getting positive media coverage. Anyone who mentions Fuqra gets attacked as a bigot. It's remarkable to see how the media doesn't even spend 5 minutes researching this group's background.

You can read about their "Sunni-Sufi" ideology here:
[www.fuqrafiles.com]

And their leader, Sheikh Gilani, here:
[www.fuqrafiles.com]

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