I got involved with The Secret Place Ministry which is an outreach program of Vision Life Ministry. I made an agreement with them that I could share all my thoughts and feelings and they would keep it confidential. They told me I had many spirits and curses even though I have been a Christian since the 3rd grade. Having accepted Christ decades ago, it was hard for me to swallow that I had the spirit of Antichrist. And them telling me I had a curse on me because my dad was a Freemason before I was born, all that did was make me kinda distance myself from my dad. I finally got fed up with it all. I gave the head pastor a piece of my mind. I had done that in the past a few times. Disagreed with him. He was to keep it confidential. But when I told him he was a control freak and I could pray for people and share the Bible without all his stuff, he took it upon himself to call my workplace and tell them I wasnt interpreting the Bible correctly. That really upset me. I unloaded on him and told him how childish that was. I told him that was not what a pastor would do, call a mans workplace. I left him some pretty harsh voicemails and I criticized his teachings. Next thing I know, the police call me. and I explained the situation. The officer was nice and told me that is not what a pastor would do to call my workplace like that. I still have friends in that ministry. Recently they have been told to stop talking to me. My main question is. Doesnt all this line up with what a cult would do? Is this really what a 'Christian' pastor would do because I left his ministry? I told him it is a cult and Im not really sure if I should have said that.

Please Reply.

Welcome to the board.

In addition to this thread, on New Religious Movements, there is another
section of the message board for destructive churches.

[forum.culteducation.com]

Your query will go out to an even wider audience.

Welcome again - Corboy

Potentially unsafe groups or leaders "come off very nice at first, they go for vulnerable people who are looking for answers, lonely, what you'd call 'normal people.' They're very good at what they do and can get people to believe anything. You might think you'd never get taken in, but don't bet on it. "

-- Margaret Singer, Ph.D.

By Rick Ross, Expert Consultant and Intervention Specialist


Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.
Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
The group/leader is always right.
The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.
Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.
Ten signs of a safe group/leader.
A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.
A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.
A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.
A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.
A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.
A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.
A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.
A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.
A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.
A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas.


Don't be naïve, develop a good BS Detector.
You can protect yourself from unsafe groups and leaders by developing a good BS detector. Check things out, know the facts and examine the evidence. A safe group will be patient with your decision making process. If a group or leader grows angry and anxious just because you want to make an informed and careful decision before joining; beware.


www.culteducation.com/warningsigns.html - 16k

Woah! That just sent up a bunch of red flags. And I mean a bunch. Thank you for your reply.

Very helpful reply from CultWatch

you are definitely *not* demon-possessed or cursed in our view, certainly not from something your father may or may not have done. We think there are two likely explanations for this group and what they've said to you: first that they are well-meaning but incorrect, and secondly that they are charlatans who somehow want to manipulate you through fear.

That helped me feel a little better. It isnt good to think that you have curses or antichrist. That pastor suggested I go do the deliverance again and go through the Freemason prayers. But after getting all this enlightening info, theres no way I am going to do that. It would just re-enforce the negative thoughts.

I am thankful that there are organizations that take time to help people get out of these places.

Questions can be directed to Rick Ross, owner of the CEI website and
moderator of this message board.

Mr. Ross can be contacted here:

[forum.culteducation.com]

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Coroby; I think this is an important topic.

In the past Mr Ross has said he does not read or have access to peoples private PM's unless of course they are sent or forwarded to him.

You now seem to be stating that information sent through the PM system is actually part of the public message board and that he owns these comments.

In that case it would be obvious that he can or may read them all since they all belong to him and he has copyright over them, and that the message system is not "private" at all.
Could you or Mr Ross clarify this please.

To whom it may conern:

The PM system is private not public.

No one can see your private messages other than you and the poeple that receive them through the PM system.

Of course someone may choose to share a PM they receive with someone else, but they can only do this with PMs they receive and/or those that are forwarded to them.

In other words... 'Theres no going back now'.

After much research, I understand. Intimidation. Manipulation. And Isolation.

Isolation is great for getting a person to sober up. Its also great to create a 'captive audience' to shove your beliefs down anothers throat. Intimidation and manipulation cost me my job. And it set me free. Once I broke free, the PTSD was triggered. I relapsed to beer. And I ripped 'em a new one. How dare they charge me all that money to get 'delivered'. Over and over again.

Deliverance cult. Destructive church.

I went through their 'deliverance' a few times. It costs $75 a pop (I got a discount tho). Everything I went there for... PTSD, smoking cigarettes, anxiety etc. remained. I was not delivered from anything. I would urge anyone who wishes to try this 'deliverance' they perform to just do it once. Or avoid it all together. Dont let them convince you to do it multiple times. After I did it once and told them it didnt do much for me. They told me I wasnt receiving it. So I did a follow-up and repeated the whole process again. Each time, it just made me feel like I had something wrong with me. Jezebel spirit. Antichrist. Curse of the Freemasons. etc. And it was just re-enforcing the negative thoughts. It started to trigger my PTSD. I began to smoke even more. And my anxiety increased. I really would like my money back, but they do not offer refunds. I paid $150 to be trained to be a deliverance minister in 2 days. And thats when I learned it was all a trick. I can sum it all up in 5 steps. 1. Dig in a persons past. 2. Find something wrong with them 3. Convince them they have spirits and curses. 4. Tell them the churches dont know anything about deliverance. 5. Tell them you can 'fix' it for them. Whoever put it all together was not dumb. Its an ingenious scam to say the least.