Is America more permissive towards cults?
Posted by: Franc28 ()
Date: May 04, 2014 03:11PM

If this topic has already been discussed, I apologize... I tried a search but did not find anything relevant.

America is a religiously tolerant place, but so are many other places. Why does it seem that it is particularly tolerant towards cults. Perhaps this is a misguided impression, but the case of Scientology seems like good evidence, although that might be because of local celebrity power. Are the laws in the US more permissive than in other Western countries?

Re: Is America more permissive towards cults?
Posted by: shakti ()
Date: May 07, 2014 11:38PM

I think it is safe to say "yes" as an American. It's a double-edged sword: we have the religious freedom that was lacking in the "Old World", which was one of the drawing points for our early immigrants. Sometimes that freedom is used to create something even worse than the Old World that we left behind.

There are other factors at play here:

1. Strong attitudes toward personal property and against taxation, particularly of religions. Groups like Scientology, clearly a business, are able to get away with tax exemptions they would not pull off in other countries. We also have not experienced a Hitler, Pol Pot, scenario so we are less wary of the danger of the "one great leader" personality cult.

2. Wide open spaces, cheap land, underfunded rural law enforcement that tends to the flourishing of cult compounds.

3. Lax gun laws (I'm generally in the middle on the gun debate, but it is obvious we have more guns in play) that allow stockpiling of weapons by religious groups.

4. A materialist, consumer-oriented society that alienates many people from "mainstream" society, including religion, and destroys them psychologically, making them ripe for the picking by mind-control groups.

5. Americans are religious! Even those fundamentalists who rail about cults would rather have them around then have the government snoop into their own affairs too much.

Re: Is America more permissive towards cults?
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 08, 2014 06:41AM

Shakti has summed it up.

France and Germany are much more strict about cults -- both nations have
paid in loss of millions of lives because ideology driven fanatics took
hold of the electoral process.

This calamity has not yet happened in the United States, so we are able to remain naive.

Germany was plunged into the abyss when the Nazis got hold of the normal electoral process.

In addition to the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution, France was torn asunder by internal strife inflamed by Catholic/Protestant conflict.

Cults are analogous to the candy display at check out
Posted by: corboy ()
Date: May 08, 2014 10:26PM

Americans tend to believe in sudden conversions, perhaps influenced by the conversion stories in the New Testament. Even if one isnt religious, these "sudden transformation" stories are part of our inner psychological landscape. We have this hope we can be transformed by the right experience--or the right product.

America has a brief history and the luxury of geographical boundaries. We have not been invaded repeatedly by armies. Only the First Nations and African Americans have the experience of being repeatedly lied to.

Many Americans do not have an index of suspicion. Negative thinking is frowned on. But..many of the finest features of life are created by negative thinking. Such as fire drills, regular testing of drinking water to make sure the germ count stays low, smoke alarms. All this and more is made possible by negative thinking -- imagining what could go wrong.

A friend, born in the US, but who had lived 30 years in the UK and worked in Eastern Europe in under the table jobs, told me this:

"In most parts of the world, Americans are considered naive, if not stupid. Americans tend to be trusting, take people at their word -- and assume that life is fair.

"Americans are often at a serious disadvantage when dealing with persons from rougher parts of the world."

Another big American myth is that we are architects of our destinies.

Another assumption is that only stupid people 'fall for' cons, set ups and cults. Shame keeps many people from coming forward and reporting con artists.

Wrong. These set ups are refined by quite intelligent people who work in teams and know about social psychology. These set ups are designed to trap intelligent people. Casinos, tobacco companies, advertising agencies and cults have DECADES of experience in refining these methods.

Americans too often do not understand that to many of the choices offered
to us are in a context of bounded choice.

Americans assume they can recognize an evildoer on sight.

Bounded by

*Lack of full disclosure. We are not told the complete history of the group
or product or the long term costs of commitment. One cannot make a free choice
if one lacks full disclosure.

* We all have times in life when under stress or bereavement. Even the most
intelligent of will be rendered vulnerable.

* We trust our friends and families.

* Quite a few of us are tired, even sleep deprived. Parents, people
working multiple jobs, people working multiple jobs plus school.

Chronic exhaustion impairs critical thinking

* Many of us do not imagine that it is as important to fact check a religion
or workshop or media advertisement as it is to investigate the performance
capacities of a new computer or car. Fact checking requires critical thinking.

Many parents are so desperate to find a school for thier children or an elder care facility, that it doesnt occur to them to fact check and see if the school is tied to a religious instition and what its actual history is.

Even if not religious ourselves, we have a notion that illness, death,
misfortune are signs that we are lacking in grace. We tend to privatize our
troubles, rather than understanding that some situations are not our private
fault, but caused by social factors such as increased commute time and decreased
purchasing power of the US dollar, both of which have contributed to tension
in family life and increased anxiety. Parents (both partnered and single) are
exhausted and also guilty because they fear they are away from home too much.

And this makes parents vulnerable to nagging by children who are influenced by advertisers who knowing exploit the 'pester factor'.

When a parent caves and buys stuff for kids in response--THIS IS NOT FREE
CHOICE. It is a set up.

Any American who thinks his or her choices are free should remember the child height candy racks by the checkout register. Its just as much a set up as casino architecture. This is bounded choice. A parent (or someone on a diet) has to be a moral hero to resist this sort of temptation.

We imagine ourselves to be hardshelled units of self, permanent,
and impervious to influence we do not consent to.

We assume we are the sole agents of choices we make.

Most of the time we are not aware of the extent to which
our choices are provided in a context and that the context can
be rigged to work against us.

We are easily manipulated by the words 'freedom of choice'.

That is how we are easily tricked by con artists that any warning by a true
friend that we are being seduced into a situation of bounded choice is an insult to our adult dignity and infantalizes us by insinuating we are stupid enough to fall for something.

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