Yoga if Yoga Used AA 12 Traditions as a Guide
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 04, 2013 05:16AM
[www.aa.org]
Corboy note. This is not to push the 12 Traditions on anyone.
But consider it a thought experiment. Just how different would the yoga world be if everyone followed the guideline of principles, before personalities.
The Twelve Traditions (re written with yoga in mind)
One—Our common welfare should come first; personal discovery and healing depends upon yoga groups being friendly and non competitive.
Two—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He or She may express Himself in our group conscience. Our gurus and teachers are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
Three—The only requirement for yoga is a desire to develop peace and honesty in oneself and with others. A fancy fashionable wardrobe is not needed. Shorts and T shirts are fine.
Four—Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or yoga as a whole.
Five—Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
Six—A yoga kula or class ought never endorse, finance or lend the yoga or lineage name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
Seven—Every yoga group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
Eight—yoga should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
Nine—yoga , as such, ought never be organized or trademarked; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
Ten—A yoga group has no opinion on outside issues; hence yoga practice ought never be drawn into public controversy.
Eleven—Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity (but not seductive secrecy) at the level of press, radio and films. (No celebrity yogis or yoginis!)
Twelve—Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of our Dharma , ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
The Twelve Traditions
(The Long Form)
Our A.A. experience has taught us that:
1.—Each yogi or yogini whether new or decades into practice is but a small part of a great whole. yoga must continue to live or most of us will surely die. Hence our common welfare comes first. But individual welfare follows close afterward.
2.—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as he or she may express Himself in our group conscience.
3.—Our membership ought to include all who suffer and desire to attain insight and balance. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought yoga membership ever depend upon money or conformit (or the right brand of clothes!)y. Any two or three yogis gathered together for practice may call themselves a yogagroup, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.
4.—With respect to its own affairs, each yoga group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect yoga as a whole without conferring with the trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount.
5.—Each yoga kula or group ought to be a spiritual entity having but one primary purpose—that of making the practice available to any human person old, young, cute or homely, healthy or ailing, famous or humble who is of goodwill, polite and desires to attain insight.
6.—Problems of money, property, and authority may easily divert us from our primary spiritual aim. We think, therefore, that any considerable property of genuine use to yoga should be separately incorporated and managed, thus dividing the material from the spiritual. A yoga group, as such, should never go into business. Secondary aids to yoga., such as clubs or hospitals which require much property or administration, ought to be incorporated and so set apart that, if necessary, they can be freely discarded by the groups. (Renunciation!)Hence such facilities ought not to use the yoga name. Their management should be the sole responsibility of those people who financially support them. For clubs, yoga managers are usually preferred. But hospitals, as well as other places of recuperation, ought to be well outside yogaand medically supervised. While a yoga group may cooperate with anyone, such cooperation ought never go so far as affiliation or endorsement, actual or implied.
A yoga group can bind itself to no one.
7.—The yoga groupsthemselves ought to be fully supported by the voluntary contributions of their own mem-
bers.
We think that each group should soon achieve this ideal; that any public solicitation of funds using the name of yoga is highly dangerous, whether by groups, clubs, hospitals, or other outside agencies; that acceptance of large gifts from any source, or of contributions carrying any obligation whatever, is unwise. Then too, we view with much concern those yoga treasuries which continue, beyond prudent reserves, to accumulate funds for no stated yogic purpose. Experience has often warned us that nothing can so surely destroy our spiritual heritage as futile disputes over property, money, and authority.
8.—Yoga should remain forever nonprofessional. We define professionalism as the occupation of counseling yogis and yoginisfor fees or hire. But we may employ pratictioners where they are going to perform those services for which we might otherwise have to engage those unfamiliar with the practices. Such special services may be well recompensed. But our usual yoga “dharma” work is never to be paid for.
9.—Each yoga kula or sangha needs the least possible organization. Rotating leadership is the best. The small group may elect its secretary, the large group its rotating committee, and the groups of a large metropolitan area their central or intergroup committee, which often employs a full-time secretary. The trustees of the General Service Board are, in effect, our Yoga. General Service Committee. They are the custodians of our YOga Dharma and the receivers of voluntary yogic contributions by which we maintain our yoga dahrma General Service Office at New York. They are authorized by the groups to handle our over-all public relations and they guarantee the integrity of our principal newspaper, the yoga newsletter. All such representatives are to be guided in the spirit of service, for true leaders in yoga. are but trusted and experienced servants of the whole. They derive no real authority from their titles; they do not govern. Universal respect is the key to their usefulness.
10.—No yoga. group or member should ever, in such a way as to implicate yoga, express any opinion on outside controversial issues—particularly those of politics, alcohol reform, or sectarian religion. The yoga groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever.
11.—Our relations with the general public should be characterized by personal anonymity. We think yoga ought to avoid sensational advertising. Our names and pictures as yoga pratictionersought not be broadcast, filmed, or publicly printed. Our public relations should be guided by the principle of attraction rather than promotion. There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us.
12.—And finally, we yogis and yoginis that the principle of anonymity has an immense spiritual significance. It reminds us that we are to place principles before personalities; that we are actually to practice a genuine humility. This to the end that our great blessings may never spoil us; that we shall forever live in thankful contemplation of Him who presides over us all.
Corboy note. This is not to push the 12 Traditions on anyone.
But consider it a thought experiment. Just how different would the yoga world be if everyone followed the guideline of principles, before personalities.
The Twelve Traditions (re written with yoga in mind)
One—Our common welfare should come first; personal discovery and healing depends upon yoga groups being friendly and non competitive.
Two—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as He or She may express Himself in our group conscience. Our gurus and teachers are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
Three—The only requirement for yoga is a desire to develop peace and honesty in oneself and with others. A fancy fashionable wardrobe is not needed. Shorts and T shirts are fine.
Four—Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or yoga as a whole.
Five—Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.
Six—A yoga kula or class ought never endorse, finance or lend the yoga or lineage name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
Seven—Every yoga group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
Eight—yoga should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
Nine—yoga , as such, ought never be organized or trademarked; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
Ten—A yoga group has no opinion on outside issues; hence yoga practice ought never be drawn into public controversy.
Eleven—Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity (but not seductive secrecy) at the level of press, radio and films. (No celebrity yogis or yoginis!)
Twelve—Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of our Dharma , ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
The Twelve Traditions
(The Long Form)
Our A.A. experience has taught us that:
1.—Each yogi or yogini whether new or decades into practice is but a small part of a great whole. yoga must continue to live or most of us will surely die. Hence our common welfare comes first. But individual welfare follows close afterward.
2.—For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority—a loving God as he or she may express Himself in our group conscience.
3.—Our membership ought to include all who suffer and desire to attain insight and balance. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought yoga membership ever depend upon money or conformit (or the right brand of clothes!)y. Any two or three yogis gathered together for practice may call themselves a yogagroup, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation.
4.—With respect to its own affairs, each yoga group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect yoga as a whole without conferring with the trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount.
5.—Each yoga kula or group ought to be a spiritual entity having but one primary purpose—that of making the practice available to any human person old, young, cute or homely, healthy or ailing, famous or humble who is of goodwill, polite and desires to attain insight.
6.—Problems of money, property, and authority may easily divert us from our primary spiritual aim. We think, therefore, that any considerable property of genuine use to yoga should be separately incorporated and managed, thus dividing the material from the spiritual. A yoga group, as such, should never go into business. Secondary aids to yoga., such as clubs or hospitals which require much property or administration, ought to be incorporated and so set apart that, if necessary, they can be freely discarded by the groups. (Renunciation!)Hence such facilities ought not to use the yoga name. Their management should be the sole responsibility of those people who financially support them. For clubs, yoga managers are usually preferred. But hospitals, as well as other places of recuperation, ought to be well outside yogaand medically supervised. While a yoga group may cooperate with anyone, such cooperation ought never go so far as affiliation or endorsement, actual or implied.
A yoga group can bind itself to no one.
7.—The yoga groupsthemselves ought to be fully supported by the voluntary contributions of their own mem-
bers.
We think that each group should soon achieve this ideal; that any public solicitation of funds using the name of yoga is highly dangerous, whether by groups, clubs, hospitals, or other outside agencies; that acceptance of large gifts from any source, or of contributions carrying any obligation whatever, is unwise. Then too, we view with much concern those yoga treasuries which continue, beyond prudent reserves, to accumulate funds for no stated yogic purpose. Experience has often warned us that nothing can so surely destroy our spiritual heritage as futile disputes over property, money, and authority.
8.—Yoga should remain forever nonprofessional. We define professionalism as the occupation of counseling yogis and yoginisfor fees or hire. But we may employ pratictioners where they are going to perform those services for which we might otherwise have to engage those unfamiliar with the practices. Such special services may be well recompensed. But our usual yoga “dharma” work is never to be paid for.
9.—Each yoga kula or sangha needs the least possible organization. Rotating leadership is the best. The small group may elect its secretary, the large group its rotating committee, and the groups of a large metropolitan area their central or intergroup committee, which often employs a full-time secretary. The trustees of the General Service Board are, in effect, our Yoga. General Service Committee. They are the custodians of our YOga Dharma and the receivers of voluntary yogic contributions by which we maintain our yoga dahrma General Service Office at New York. They are authorized by the groups to handle our over-all public relations and they guarantee the integrity of our principal newspaper, the yoga newsletter. All such representatives are to be guided in the spirit of service, for true leaders in yoga. are but trusted and experienced servants of the whole. They derive no real authority from their titles; they do not govern. Universal respect is the key to their usefulness.
10.—No yoga. group or member should ever, in such a way as to implicate yoga, express any opinion on outside controversial issues—particularly those of politics, alcohol reform, or sectarian religion. The yoga groups oppose no one. Concerning such matters they can express no views whatever.
11.—Our relations with the general public should be characterized by personal anonymity. We think yoga ought to avoid sensational advertising. Our names and pictures as yoga pratictionersought not be broadcast, filmed, or publicly printed. Our public relations should be guided by the principle of attraction rather than promotion. There is never need to praise ourselves. We feel it better to let our friends recommend us.
12.—And finally, we yogis and yoginis that the principle of anonymity has an immense spiritual significance. It reminds us that we are to place principles before personalities; that we are actually to practice a genuine humility. This to the end that our great blessings may never spoil us; that we shall forever live in thankful contemplation of Him who presides over us all.
Re: Yoga if Yoga Used AA 12 Traditions as a Guide
Posted by:
psyborgue
()
Date: September 04, 2013 03:35PM
I thought "This is not a message board for people to debate their personal religious beliefs or philosophies." Like it or not, AA is a philosophy, if not a bona-fide "religious activity" as courts have found.
That being said, if we're going to debate this, i'm intimately familiar with how Synanon based cult-like groups have applied these "principles", i see them as no defense whatsoever against bad behavior. A easily as you're applying them for good, others have applied them to control. I could just as easily argue if cult leaders followed the bible properly things would be different but you can see how well that's turned out.
Take the first tradition. "A.A. must continue to live or most of us will surely die. Hence our common welfare comes first." In other words, the group and it's welfare comes first, and yours second. The group must continue to exist or you will die. Surely you can see the problem here.
That being said, if we're going to debate this, i'm intimately familiar with how Synanon based cult-like groups have applied these "principles", i see them as no defense whatsoever against bad behavior. A easily as you're applying them for good, others have applied them to control. I could just as easily argue if cult leaders followed the bible properly things would be different but you can see how well that's turned out.
Take the first tradition. "A.A. must continue to live or most of us will surely die. Hence our common welfare comes first." In other words, the group and it's welfare comes first, and yours second. The group must continue to exist or you will die. Surely you can see the problem here.
Re: Yoga if Yoga Used AA 12 Traditions as a Guide
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: September 04, 2013 10:03PM
Hi psyborgue.
Back before the crash, we had a discussion thread, the downside of yoga.
A lot of stories emerged about yoga celebrities, and abuses.
Just as a thought experiment, I posted a copy of the 12 Traditions, replacing AA with the words 'yoga' 'yogi' and 'yogini' as indicated.
I was trying to give a flavor of what the yoga scene would look like if principles came before personality, focus went to to practice, rather than idealized teachers and gurus.
And how different the scene would look if care was taken to prevent it from turning into a money, property, prestige trap.
So I tried last night to re-do that essay. And wrote at the top
Will mention that some of the worst problems for very many groups begin when the leader or a few enthusiasts (often hand picked by the leader) push for purchase or construction of a large, expensive, impressive building/ashram.
Property, whether purchased or bought, often becomes a yawning bottomless pit for money and labor.
Current members are pressured to donate money and labor.
Tension arises as a need is perceived for more new recruits.
And if neighbors worry about traffic congestion, decrease in property values if a project is peceived as destructive to the landscape, this can lead some groups to develop an seige mentality.
Your work here is a appreciated. Always feel free to check with Rick Ross if you are concerned about any thread or discussion.
His PM address is here. If you want it for ready access, add it to your buddies list.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Back before the crash, we had a discussion thread, the downside of yoga.
A lot of stories emerged about yoga celebrities, and abuses.
Just as a thought experiment, I posted a copy of the 12 Traditions, replacing AA with the words 'yoga' 'yogi' and 'yogini' as indicated.
I was trying to give a flavor of what the yoga scene would look like if principles came before personality, focus went to to practice, rather than idealized teachers and gurus.
And how different the scene would look if care was taken to prevent it from turning into a money, property, prestige trap.
So I tried last night to re-do that essay. And wrote at the top
Quote
This is not to push the 12 Traditions on anyone.
But consider it a thought experiment. Just how different would the yoga world be if everyone followed the guideline of principles, before personalities
Will mention that some of the worst problems for very many groups begin when the leader or a few enthusiasts (often hand picked by the leader) push for purchase or construction of a large, expensive, impressive building/ashram.
Property, whether purchased or bought, often becomes a yawning bottomless pit for money and labor.
Current members are pressured to donate money and labor.
Tension arises as a need is perceived for more new recruits.
And if neighbors worry about traffic congestion, decrease in property values if a project is peceived as destructive to the landscape, this can lead some groups to develop an seige mentality.
Your work here is a appreciated. Always feel free to check with Rick Ross if you are concerned about any thread or discussion.
His PM address is here. If you want it for ready access, add it to your buddies list.
[forum.culteducation.com]
Re: Yoga if Yoga Used AA 12 Traditions as a Guide
Posted by:
A-nja
()
Date: September 21, 2013 08:10PM
What yoga actualy is, was defined properly by Patanjali in his yoga-sutras.
Yoga is NOT a group-activity. It never was and it will never be.
Yoga is a method for self-knowledge, if applied properly. But usually it is NOT done that way.
Yoga is dangerous if it is done by a group. Because it is NOT something that can be experienced in a group. Therefore EVERY "ashram", every "yoga-group" is bogus.
Yoga means to connect, to align. It is a method for self-education and self-discovery. It is meant to practice in seclusion.
A true yogi aims at discovering himself as what or who he/she really is. That can NOT be done in a group.
Yoga can NOT be taught. It is meant as a means for the one who is willing to know him/herself. It requires dedication and earnestness.
A true yogi is not a yogi anymore after done serious work with certain methods. So yoga is a means, not an end.
Yoga is the most abused method in the west. It is a powerfull tool that can be abused easly. And of course it is.
A true yogi, who is not a yogi anymore, would never ever "teach" yoga. Because it 1. is impossible and 2. it is not supposed to be taught. Therefore if money is involved in a "yoga-teaching" it is ALLWAYS not just bogus but an attack.
A true yogi can help and guide a beginner through the stages that are experienced. But a beginner of yoga-practice MUST know why and what for he/she will practice such a method.
And in the end it is like this: No yoga-method is needed for self-knowledge for the one who is earnest, serious, willing and able to recognize the nature of REALITY.
So...forget about yoga. You are already what you are. But what is it? Contemplate and pray for an answer and the answer will show up. Open your eyes and your ears and you will see and hear.
What else is needed?
Yoga is NOT a group-activity. It never was and it will never be.
Yoga is a method for self-knowledge, if applied properly. But usually it is NOT done that way.
Yoga is dangerous if it is done by a group. Because it is NOT something that can be experienced in a group. Therefore EVERY "ashram", every "yoga-group" is bogus.
Yoga means to connect, to align. It is a method for self-education and self-discovery. It is meant to practice in seclusion.
A true yogi aims at discovering himself as what or who he/she really is. That can NOT be done in a group.
Yoga can NOT be taught. It is meant as a means for the one who is willing to know him/herself. It requires dedication and earnestness.
A true yogi is not a yogi anymore after done serious work with certain methods. So yoga is a means, not an end.
Yoga is the most abused method in the west. It is a powerfull tool that can be abused easly. And of course it is.
A true yogi, who is not a yogi anymore, would never ever "teach" yoga. Because it 1. is impossible and 2. it is not supposed to be taught. Therefore if money is involved in a "yoga-teaching" it is ALLWAYS not just bogus but an attack.
A true yogi can help and guide a beginner through the stages that are experienced. But a beginner of yoga-practice MUST know why and what for he/she will practice such a method.
And in the end it is like this: No yoga-method is needed for self-knowledge for the one who is earnest, serious, willing and able to recognize the nature of REALITY.
So...forget about yoga. You are already what you are. But what is it? Contemplate and pray for an answer and the answer will show up. Open your eyes and your ears and you will see and hear.
What else is needed?
Re: Yoga if Yoga Used AA 12 Traditions as a Guide
Posted by:
A-nja
()
Date: September 22, 2013 09:20PM
Corboy, please let me add this:
With this post you made yourself naked. I read a few of your posts and comments and I have to admit: You are the most smart, clever, intelligent and educated mind I ever met. You expose every lie so easy...like nobody else does. I would admire that if I could. But one thing you can not expose like that: TRUTH.
By posting this statement about yoga you showed what you are up to. VERY INTERESTING. VERY SOPHISTICATED...indeed...
Compared to you I'm just a dumpy...a stupid...a know-nothing...but...
...one thing I do know: MYSELF!
Do you know yourself too?
With this post you made yourself naked. I read a few of your posts and comments and I have to admit: You are the most smart, clever, intelligent and educated mind I ever met. You expose every lie so easy...like nobody else does. I would admire that if I could. But one thing you can not expose like that: TRUTH.
By posting this statement about yoga you showed what you are up to. VERY INTERESTING. VERY SOPHISTICATED...indeed...
Compared to you I'm just a dumpy...a stupid...a know-nothing...but...
...one thing I do know: MYSELF!
Do you know yourself too?
Re: Yoga if Yoga Used AA 12 Traditions as a Guide
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 22, 2013 11:41PM
A-nja:
Read the rules.
Personal attacks are against the rules.
Do not post personal attacks against any member of this message board or you will be banned from the board.
Also, this message board is not the place to preach your "truth" and all caps is not necessary to make a point.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2013 11:42PM by rrmoderator.
Read the rules.
Personal attacks are against the rules.
Do not post personal attacks against any member of this message board or you will be banned from the board.
Also, this message board is not the place to preach your "truth" and all caps is not necessary to make a point.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2013 11:42PM by rrmoderator.
Re: Yoga if Yoga Used AA 12 Traditions as a Guide
Posted by:
A-nja
()
Date: September 23, 2013 03:44AM
Dear rrmoderator,
it is not an attack but a statement. And I did't say anything bad or nasty.
Wait...yes...sorry...I did...
I called myself a dumpy and a stupid and a know-nothing.
SORRY FOR THAT!
But what if it's true?
it is not an attack but a statement. And I did't say anything bad or nasty.
Wait...yes...sorry...I did...
I called myself a dumpy and a stupid and a know-nothing.
SORRY FOR THAT!
But what if it's true?
Re: Yoga if Yoga Used AA 12 Traditions as a Guide
Posted by:
rrmoderator
()
Date: September 23, 2013 04:10AM
A-nja:
Again, using all caps is not necessary.
And breaking the rules by attacking members of this message board will result in being banned from this message board.
Last warning.
Again, using all caps is not necessary.
And breaking the rules by attacking members of this message board will result in being banned from this message board.
Last warning.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.