Hi. I'm new here and also new to most of all this. I was born and raised in a cult religion, but I feel I managed to leave and I feel I have worked hard on recovering from the effects.

I have a question about a group or organization called Landmark. A friend of mine who now lives in Canada says that ended up there "following his dream". He mentioned me that "his life is finally happening" after he started attending some seminars or workshop with that name, and he also talked about reaching levels of sort.

Though I know my friend is not exactly the most functional person in the world, I also noticed that he brought up that "Landmark" thing one too many times for me to to ignore it. He was also severely criticizing a mutual friend who he invited to one of the seminars that he "didn't get it at all". The way he presented that Landmark thing concerned me. I know he has struggled for years with belonging and forming part of something.

Has anyone heard of this Landmark organization?

There's lots of information about Landmark on the Large Group Awareness topic.

It's a cult. Or like a cult.

It is also derived, in part, from Scientology.


EZ

Landmark (aka EST) is technically not a cult. However it IS cultish in the techniques it uses. It does not have one "guru" or leader that people follow, rather it has several.

In my opinion Landmark Education Corporation (keep in mind that a business Incorporates to protect itself from liable) is WORSE than a cult, because people are lulled into a false sense of security.

Landmark (EST) preys on the lonely, sad and vulnerable. The brainwashing starts from the very first moment you walk in the door. It is so slow and insidious you don't even know what is happening to you.

Up till now, people have not had much success sueing Landmark, but that is going to change, once people understand that they have been hypnotised without their concent.

If you are unfortunate enough to get sucked into the world of the Landmark Junkies, at the very least you will pay A LOT OF MONEY for something that you already know, or can learn for a fraction of the cost.

The worst that can happen is that you will have a costly mental breakdown, lose all your friends, alienate your family and end up working for Landmark "Education" Corporation for free!

enough said!

For the sake of your financial and mental health, please stay away from the "Mind-Benders" (i.e. EST, Quest, Landmark - cow dung by any other name still stinks!)

Thank you. I guess I started typing before further reading the site. My friend seems to be very much into it, and he says he's happy. Through the years I've known him he's always been in this sort of quest looking for I don't know what...

Anyway, thank you.

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The Shadow
Landmark (aka EST) is technically not a cult. However it IS cultish in the techniques it uses. It does not have one "guru" or leader that people follow, rather it has several.

Just to add that all Landmark Forum "leaders" try their best to copy Werner Erhard as closely as they can in style, gesture, voice, delivery, script, etc., etc. They spend hours and hours watching old tapes of him and in front of a mirror attempting to recreate every move he made. They also tend to worship him in some pretty repugnant ways and refer to him as "Source."

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In my opinion Landmark Education Corporation (keep in mind that a business Incorporates to protect itself from liable) is WORSE than a cult, because people are lulled into a false sense of security.

I agree. Because they appear to be "secular," people don't assume them to be a cult.

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Landmark (EST) preys on the lonely, sad and vulnerable. The brainwashing starts from the very first moment you walk in the door. It is so slow and insidious you don't even know what is happening to you.

Even if you aren't lonely, sad, and vulnerable, they can convince you you are by making you focus on past troubles, failures, wounds, old heartaches, and "unfinished business." They do this using the guise of "putting the past in the past" or "completing the past" but these are really ways to get you to bring them into consciousness so they can hook into you and start to lever you around with their other tricks.

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Up till now, people have not had much success sueing Landmark, but that is going to change, once people understand that they have been hypnotised without their concent.

At Landmark they call their hypnotic inductions "processes," some of which were copied from scientology, including the use of the word "process."

(I and several others have put up a ton of information about hypnosis on alt.fan.landmark for anyone who is interested. Just google within the group.)


Ellen

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Just to add that all Landmark Forum "leaders" try their best to copy Werner Erhard as closely as they can in style, gesture, voice, delivery, script, etc., etc. They spend hours and hours watching old tapes of him and in front of a mirror attempting to recreate every move he made. They also tend to worship him in some pretty repugnant ways and refer to him as "Source."

That's scary! What I always wonder is how the heck people don't see such imitations as fake? How can't they see a warning sign there?

Going through the database, it's more scary that there are so many institutions out there. Makes me wonder if those organizations are merely catalyzers, and there are people with some kind of predisposition to be cult followers. I mean, Landmark may be the first thing that comes across the path of those who are vulnerable to become cult followers.

Hi Elena,

Thanks for the clarification and additions to my comments.

Another point I am trying to stress is that while people sign documents, and are under the impression that they cannot sue Landmark/EST, I think the issue of INFORMED consent has been missed.

No matter what they call it, they can call it process, but they are merely manipulating words, and eventually they will get caught up in thier own lies.

I know the difference between "process" and "hypnosis". I have had some very good therapy and I have had some excellent instructors in all the courses I have done.

I spend a year doing Process Work Group Training (developed by Jungian Analyst Arnold Mindell in the 1980s). My instructor was David Roomy, a man of great skill and integrity. In the course of my studies I have been so fortunate to have a number of people teach, train, and counsel me, so the Landmark/EST ...people....can say what they like, they can fool themselves into thinking they are fooling everyone, but they are too smart by half, and eventually their bad tricks are going to catch up with them! - and maybe that time is now! -- THE POSSIBILITY I AM INVENTING FOR MY LIFE does not include giving them my money or my time! -- so they can take THAT to the bank! -- a great big ZERO.

You have no idea how ticked off I am with them, and with my friend's dad and his stupid wife for involving my friend with these.....[insert unprintable word]...!!

Thanks for letting me vent! (again).

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The Shadow
Hi Elena,

Thanks for the clarification and additions to my comments.

Another point I am trying to stress is that while people sign documents, and are under the impression that they cannot sue Landmark/EST, I think the issue of INFORMED consent has been missed.

No matter what they call it, they can call it process, but they are merely manipulating words, and eventually they will get caught up in thier own lies.

I know the difference between "process" and "hypnosis". I have had some very good therapy and I have had some excellent instructors in all the courses I have done.

I spend a year doing Process Work Group Training (developed by Jungian Analyst Arnold Mindell in the 1980s). My instructor was David Roomy, a man of great skill and integrity. In the course of my studies I have been so fortunate to have a number of people teach, train, and counsel me, so the Landmark/EST ...people....can say what they like, they can fool themselves into thinking they are fooling everyone, but they are too smart by half, and eventually their bad tricks are going to catch up with them! - and maybe that time is now! -- THE POSSIBILITY I AM INVENTING FOR MY LIFE does not include giving them my money or my time! -- so they can take THAT to the bank! -- a great big ZERO.

You have no idea how ticked off I am with them, and with my friend's dad and his stupid wife for involving my friend with these.....[insert unprintable word]...!!

Thanks for letting me vent! (again).

In the US at least, you sign away your right to sue in a jury trial. No entry of evidence, nada, nothing, no public discovery. An individual loses in a case like this. You can have singular binding arbitration, but that's it.

Hi Vic-luc

What about a family member. as in the case of a wife who has joined Landmark/EST, Insight, et al...

Can the husband sue on grounds of "Alienation of Affection"?

'shad'

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The Shadow
Hi Vic-luc

What about a family member. as in the case of a wife who has joined Landmark/EST, Insight, et al...

Can the husband sue on grounds of "Alienation of Affection"?

'shad'

Only if you were married and he/she has money. You'll get half.