Concerning the hair salon, boutique and cafe. I do believe Jesus was a little outraged at the temple when merchants had set up shop. This place is a mall, not a church. There are so many things that go on at the roc that grieve my spirit and my mind. Particularly the way they shun even the smallest of laws. For example, I know that most of the vehicles there would not pass inspection, but yet they have up to date stickers b/c a relative of on of the "insiders" just puts them on there. None are filled out. I heard recently that one of the thrift stores has had health department violations and fire code violations. I'm glad I found this thread. I am in serious need of an outlet for so many things that go on at the roc that are just not biblically or morally right. What it boils down to is that people are worshipping the pastor and the church. That's idolatry in my book.

rocdoc, you are right it is not a church and if you need an outlet youve got it. you just get out of it. people are worshiping g - i dont consider him a pastor and his socalled church. i tend to agree with you its more like a small mall. if your still their you can leave. after i was so grieved in my spirit and mind and had enough i left. like so many on this thread. and i m so much better off without that mall and that man. if people who support him here would just wake up theyd smell the garbage and pack it up and split. the longer they stay in the more they r deceived and the harder it s to get out. its a very sick place. i pray for u that u are ok and will trust god with everything. good luck bro or sister. god bless.

I've been reading these posts for a while and even posted before myself. I have a Couple of questions:

Can anyone explain the ROC Real Estate Foundation (listed on the VA Faith-Based Services website)? How did this become established?
Isn't the purpose of a foundation to give away money? (see dictionary)

How can a community leader allow 36 PAGES OF ALMOST ENTIRELY NEGATIVE MATERIALbe posted on the internet for all the world to see and only respond 1 time, to 1 person personally? and that even to say . . . I'm sorry you were hurt by hearing the truth from me.

I realize that they cannot stop the postings but one might think they would in some way attempt to defend their innocence. Of course, some would respond with . . . "God didn't tell me to respond". I bet He didn't tell you to brush your teeth either, you just knewto do that. Right? Anybody know these answers?

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hismercy
I've been reading these posts for a while and even posted before myself. I have a Couple of questions:

Can anyone explain the ROC Real Estate Foundation (listed on the VA Faith-Based Services website)? How did this become established?
Isn't the purpose of a foundation to give away money? (see dictionary)

How can a community leader allow 36 PAGES OF ALMOST ENTIRELY NEGATIVE MATERIALbe posted on the internet for all the world to see and only respond 1 time, to 1 person personally? and that even to say . . . I'm sorry you were hurt by hearing the truth from me.

I realize that they cannot stop the postings but one might think they would in some way attempt to defend their innocence. Of course, some would respond with . . . "God didn't tell me to respond". I bet He didn't tell you to brush your teeth either, you just knewto do that. Right? Anybody know these answers?

.....

A tally of the posting names reveals that at least 30 people have posted critically in this thread of posts. I have met some of them in person.

feds aint shut place down yet? darn thought i was see some progress on here lol! guess not oh well.

Has he discussed it in his services recently? It's been a year since I have attended any services there.

It was his comments in a service in Feb 2009, implied threats to sue people posting critical things on the Internet, that led me to this website and thread of posts. In a service a few months before that he threatened to "punch out" people that were engaged in "church gossip". It appears that the nature of his character includes the use of public threats to attempt to silence his critics.

Most religious leaders think that the best way to deal with what they perceive as unjust criticism, is to ignore it entirely in their public messages, that the strongest refutation is to not give the comments any audience whatsoever in their public messages.

In general, I think that is the correct principle, and true for leaders in general. Even Abraham Lincoln, who had legions of critics, said that ---

"If I care to listen to every criticism, let alone act on them, then this shop may as well be closed for all other businesses. I have learned to do my best, and if the end result is good then I do not care for any criticism, but if the end result is not good, then even the praise of ten angels would not make the difference."

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hismercy
How can a community leader allow 36 PAGES OF ALMOST ENTIRELY NEGATIVE MATERIALbe posted on the internet for all the world to see and only respond 1 time, to 1 person personally? and that even to say . . . I'm sorry you were hurt by hearing the truth from me.

I realize that they cannot stop the postings but one might think they would in some way attempt to defend their innocence. Of course, some would respond with . . . "God didn't tell me to respond". I bet He didn't tell you to brush your teeth either, you just knewto do that. Right? Anybody know these answers?

MOST OF YOU PEOPLE WHO DEFEND THE ROC ON THIS SITE TALK MESS AND COMPLAIN BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND YOU KNOW IT LOL! I HAVE HEARD YOU DO IT ! YOU JUST KNOW AFTER SERVICE YOU WILL BE APART OF THE "IN CROWD" AND BE TAKEN TO DINNER LOL! THE ROC IS FULL OF SNITCHES AND GOSSIPERS..THEY DO IT TO SELL THE NEXT PERSON OUT TO GAIN A POSTION OF MEANINGLESS POWER OR TO GET A BIGGER ROOM AT THE POINTLESS NON ACCREDITED SCHOOL THEY ARE TRAPPED IN LOL! WHAT A JOKE THE WHOLE PLACE IS>> TRUST ME .. IF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THERE YOU CANNOT TELL. THEY TWIST SCRIPTER INTO A FORM OF SLAVERY TO KEEP YOU SUPRESSED, CLEANING TOILETS, AND WORKING FOR FREE. THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THAT IS TO "RAT" EVERYBODY YOU SEE NOT LIVING TO THE POTIENTAIL OF 'JESUS" OUT TO AN OVERESEER. THAN YOU MIGHT GET A JOB ! MIGHT ...I KNOW HOW THIS WHOLE PLACE WORKS INSIDE AND OUT AND I KNOW EVERYBODY THERE VERY WELL. IF YOU ARE LOST AND NEED JESUS JUST READ YOUR BIBLE AND PRAY.. THE BIBLE WARNS OF THERE COUNTLESS PLACES ACROSS AMERICA.. THE ROC IS JUST MORE OUTRIGHT WITH IT! SAD SAD SAD ..
.

Anyone that still goes there, read 2 Thess 3. 1) Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 4) And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 6) Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye WITHDRAW YOURSELVES from EVERY brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 14) And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. I would think, that includes "free dinners". I was an overseer. I seen. I seen nothing but corruption. Nothing but lies, cover ups, a money making machine, guns, affairs amongst leadership, abortion amongst leadership, drugs, drug traffic, a big FARCE "for Jesus". "For Jesus" so they claim. THEY LIE. THEY ARE LIARS. Some think that they can pretend they don't see different things. But MANY know the truth. That it's NOTHING for Jesus, and everything for money, a life style of sickness. What part of several businesses inside what they call church, don't people get? Sickening!! And they are still recruiting, in fact, now more than ever. And they prey on drug addicts, and/or people with problems. People that they consider WEAK people. Free labor. There is nothing ok, or godly about the leadership or of the ROC. Nothing.

I certainly was not defending the ROC. Not be any means. I am not even a member of it. Nor have I ever been a member. I find it amazing that 36 pages and 2 yrs. (+/-) of posts do not generate any more response from them. I appreciate the courage of some of the folks that HAVE left and their posts, such as Hiding4AReason. (previous). With such activities occuring, be sure that this WILL COME OUT. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some federal govt. office is watching and waiting. I do not know, but, I do know that God will only give you so much time to correct your sin, then it is exposed. Sad to say that probably a WHOLE LOT MORE PEOPLE will be hurt by all this. I pray that folks will stick CLOSE to God and PLEASE, PLEASE believe that every church is not like this. You don't HAVE to go to "Church" to know God, but it helps. And, God put us all here for each other (and Himself-of course). GOD LOVES YOU AND HE HAS AN AWSOME PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE!!! We all must "work out our own salvation . . . "

They could rationalize that a bunch of anonymous posters don't have much credibility in their criticism if they are not willing to post their names. As I have said before, the ROC leader has made public threats against critics, both of a legal nature and of a physical violence nature; and back when this thread of posts had barely gotten started.

Therefore the ROC has nobody to blame but themselves if they have a problem with people posting here anonymously.

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hismercy
I certainly was not defending the ROC. Not be any means. I am not even a member of it. Nor have I ever been a member. I find it amazing that 36 pages and 2 yrs. (+/-) of posts do not generate any more response from them. I appreciate the courage of some of the folks that HAVE left and their posts, such as Hiding4AReason. (previous). With such activities occuring, be sure that this WILL COME OUT. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that some federal govt. office is watching and waiting. I do not know, but, I do know that God will only give you so much time to correct your sin, then it is exposed. Sad to say that probably a WHOLE LOT MORE PEOPLE will be hurt by all this. I pray that folks will stick CLOSE to God and PLEASE, PLEASE believe that every church is not like this. You don't HAVE to go to "Church" to know God, but it helps. And, God put us all here for each other (and Himself-of course). GOD LOVES YOU AND HE HAS AN AWSOME PLAN FOR YOUR LIFE!!! We all must "work out our own salvation . . . "