hismercy:

There is no specific profile for a potential cult recruit.

Cult members come from all types of family backgrounds, educational levels, etc.

People are more vulnerable when they are going through rough patch in life.

Cults typically use deceptive "bait and switch" tactics, so that people really don't understand what they are becoming involved in initially and may not fully understand even after years of involvement.

For example the bible may be manipulated to give the group what seems like biblical authority.

Here are some good books written from the evangelical perspective that expose this.

"The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse - Recognizing and Escaping Spiritual Manipulation and False Spiritual Authority within the Church"

See [www.amazon.com]

"Twisted Scriptures"

See [www.amazon.com]

Needless to say the New Testament teaches this. Jesus said that many would come in his name, but he would not know them. They would appear like sheep, but be inward like wolves. Likewise Paul wrote about bad leadership in Galatians.

An important point is the previously mentioned "brainwashing," which essentially robs people of their critical thinking skills and makes it increasingly difficult to see through a group or leader.

But if someone steps outside the group environment, seeks outside feedback and takes a break, they are more likely to be able to sort things out.

But while people remain within the group controlled environment, it is often quite difficult to identify issues and unravel the deception.

Friend of Bill:

I took a break from the " church" in general. At first I wasn't going to share why I took a break, but later realized if I didn't give a reason someone would think that Pastor G did something wrong. Over the last five years I lost my grand-mother, mother, dad, went through a painful divorce, lost my job for refusing to deny Christ in the workplace, and in May my sister moved away leaving me alone with my son. I had never taken the time to deal with all of this, something happened that brought all the pain to the surface, and made me come to terms with the fact that I had never grieved the losses that happened one right after the other. Pastor G, has been nothing but supportive. Again, the Pastor Gerinimo Aquilar that I know is touching & changing lives with the "agape" kinda love that can only be found at the foot of the cross. I only know what I have seen, and that is a man sold out for the gospel of Christ. I may have only attended the Roc for six months, but was helped by his ministry nine years ago, and had he not provided a "safe" haven for me and my son, we wouldn't be alive today! It hurts to hear what some of you have said about him. Pastor G, is NOTHING like you describe in your forum, and so far no proof has been brought against this man. I urge people reading this forum to at least give the Roc the chance to prove itself to you. The ministry at the Roc is changing Saul's into Paul's daily. People are being set free from addictions that they have been struggling with for years. Young mothers are getting clothes, food and nursery items that the couldn't afford. Homeless people are finding shelter in the homes. The bus ministry is taking kids off of the streets and connecting them to Godly mentors.....please at least visit the Roc for one of it's Sat. services at 6 take the time to meet Pastor G, and you will find a warm, loving, humble, down to earth man whose laid down his life for Christ.....

Wow Gd -

Let me just interject that it is obvious that you haven't taken the time to read the entire conversational string from post #1/page #1. The PRIMARY reason that many of us take the time to write our experiences with Geronimo, The Roc, Set Free (when Geronimo and Sammy were there) and so on is to ask questions that might help people who happen to be already hurting or questioning their church or its leadership AND to make people who are possibly quietly suffering under abusive church manipulation methods aware that others have been there and have come out ok with their eyes open. MANY of us had to come out from abusive treatment from the Aguilars and other Set Free and Roc leaders on our own, feeling alone. We don't say "LEAVE the church!" we say, if you are there and are questioning what you are seeing/experiencing you will find this web site and we are here to help you in any way we can, even if it's just camaraderie, sometimes by helping them focus on what exactly an abusive/cult-like church behaves like and how it controls the majority of the followers. It has been said in this string MANY times that most of us here acknowledge that even in the darkest of situations, or in corrupt churches, goodness and god's hand can exits. THAT DOES NOT MEAN that the church as a whole is functioning in a healthy or biblically sanctioned manner. NO!. To make an extreme corollary I'd remind you that even during WWII and Hitler's horrifying reign there were good Germans who fought for what was right and good. Just because the hand of God can exist and good people doing all the right things can be present, doesn't automatically mean that the entire organization, or more specifically, the leadership is in the right. Also, this entire web site is devoted to CULTS and corrupt church practices. People who are questioning their church leadership/organization will find their way here. We are not standing outside the ROC with picket signs and yelling at people not to attend that church. They are coming here.... so really, I have no patience for you coming to this site and urging people to "...please visit the Roc..." and "... meet Pastor G". That is EXACTLY what Geronimo and others in his leadership will do to influence people to STOP ASKING QUESTIONS (which is by the way, HEALTHY and ACCEPTABLE) and just (blindly) go enjoy the music and 'fellowship' they offer (but not ask the questions about the things that aren't feeling right, that are hurting people there.

As to your ridiculous RIDICULOUS claim that no-one has presented evidence. GOOD GRIEF! READ the entire string, would you? These 35 pages contain SO MANY specific and personal stories of people AT THE ROC who THEMSELVES have suffered, been ostracized, wronged, abused, etc by Geronimo and others in his leadership and some of their ministries. Also, actual financial numbers have been documented here, and accounts of illegal activities in the 'clinic' and such. THESE ARE 1st person accounts and reports of public financial listings.

I'm glad for you that you didn't suffer any ill at the church. That means you have no need of this forum.
And no-one here is actively trying to recruit. It is here only for those who seek it out.

Quote
WOW GOD
Friend of Bill:

I took a break from the " church" in general. At first I wasn't going to share why I took a break, but later realized if I didn't give a reason someone would think that Pastor G did something wrong. Over the last five years I lost my grand-mother, mother, dad, went through a painful divorce, lost my job for refusing to deny Christ in the workplace, and in May my sister moved away leaving me alone with my son. I had never taken the time to deal with all of this, something happened that brought all the pain to the surface, and made me come to terms with the fact that I had never grieved the losses that happened one right after the other. Pastor G, has been nothing but supportive. Again, the Pastor Gerinimo Aquilar that I know is touching & changing lives with the "agape" kinda love that can only be found at the foot of the cross. I only know what I have seen, and that is a man sold out for the gospel of Christ. I may have only attended the Roc for six months, but was helped by his ministry nine years ago, and had he not provided a "safe" haven for me and my son, we wouldn't be alive today! It hurts to hear what some of you have said about him. Pastor G, is NOTHING like you describe in your forum, and so far no proof has been brought against this man. I urge people reading this forum to at least give the Roc the chance to prove itself to you. The ministry at the Roc is changing Saul's into Paul's daily. People are being set free from addictions that they have been struggling with for years. Young mothers are getting clothes, food and nursery items that the couldn't afford. Homeless people are finding shelter in the homes. The bus ministry is taking kids off of the streets and connecting them to Godly mentors.....please at least visit the Roc for one of it's Sat. services at 6 take the time to meet Pastor G, and you will find a warm, loving, humble, down to earth man whose laid down his life for Christ.....

WOW GOD:

FreeAtLast has made a very valid point.

Why are you here?

If ROC did not hurt you is there any purpose for you to post here?

If you look back on this thread you will see that the issue of democratically elected church government and financial transparency have both been discussed.

Apparently ROC and Pastor G have neither.

That is, a board elected to fixed terms by the church members through a secret ballot. A board that can specifically control the church budget and if need be fire the pastor.

Financial transparency can typically be achieved through an annually audited and published church budget that is distributed to every contributor, which discloses in detail all salaries, compensation and expenses paid out from church funds.

Until ROC has these safety features, which an overwhelming majority of Protestant churches do posses, it won't have the checks and balances necessary to insure the protection of its church members effectively.

In my experience over the years, religious bodies that don't have these checks and balances are prone to abuse.

Moreover, whatever your personal experience have been, anyone that reads this thread from the beginning can easily see that ROC has a troubled history of problems and complaints.

Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of churches don't have a similar pattern of grievances and abuse allegations.

freeatleast: you said it better than i could and its so good.thank you. wowgod is so blissful because he's so ignorant and if he knows whats good for him he will stay away.

[...] I pray that everyone will one day have peace and be content with their own lives that they don't wish harm on others even if they don't believe in what they preach.

[Moderator's Note: Certain names and personal information have been edited out of this post. There was no need to disclose such personal information here.]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2010 12:48AM by rrmoderator.

Quote
crmanny
I pray that everyone will one day have peace and be content with their own lives that they don't wish harm on others even if they don't believe in what they preach.

crmanny, I don't think anyone here wishes harm on anyone. If you read through these posts, from start to finish, you will see that alot here have had harm done to them. Serious harm. Spiritual harm. Physical harm. Sexual harm. Some people here, have seen way more sin and wrongdoing by the leaders and the leadership than has even been put out here. Some people have endured the ruins of marriage. Some have endured the devistation of abortion, by leadership. I get the impression that people here, are simply trying to warn others, before it's too late, before there are more victims. I know I don't wish harm on them. God's judgment will be more harm than any human is capable of. Our job is to pray for their souls, before time runs out.

Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove (expose) them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

i have been a member for 4 years and have had more possitive experiances then negitive ones @the roc my children love it and as long as i am present in there spiritual growth i think it will be okay? the only problem i have is the fact that the situation i was involved with at the end of my employment (some of you are in the loop on this) is that there was a huge dance of denile with what happend and it was was never truly resolved,the pain i felt and still feel was and is very real! i still recive nothing but kindness when im there. if your looking for the perfect church you better remove yourself first. the fact is i really do love the roc and the people there, and for the most part i feel closer to the lord whenever im in attendance. it does however sadden me that i have to remain gaurded to some extent and try to overlook certain issues. because of what happend to me concerning a perticular minister of finance i can never feel okay when it comes to tithing, we all make mistakes all of us! but why allow mistrust to cotinue to linger in somones heart and head over human error? i do belive that g is trying the best he knows how to do what is best and i also know he is flesh like all of us but when there are so many people who want to be in the (club) i belive the flesh somtimes get the best of things and thats never good! hey were all growing in the lord every day including pastors. i will continue to be a part of the roc ive prayed on it time and time again and as long as i stay focused on Jesus Christ and allow him to rule my life the rest is cake somday i do hope to close the door on the the $$ issue i have with them. in the the mean time nothing brings me more joy then to walk with somone who is a little hesitent, up to the alter to be saved! in closing you can say what you want you will about whoever you want but pastor fernando is the real deal that man has kept me in his heart and prayers through out and is truly a man of God with no hidden agenda i love that man

Burry Burry Burry, you said it. You have negitive experiances at the ROC and you "THINK" it will be ok, you are sadden and you never feel ok to tithe . You were only taken back in because you were naming names and that was the only way they could shut you up. I must say bro you were right on time with what you had to say.
I don't believe anyone in this form has mention Pastor Fernando. Oh, by the way do you really think the ROC needs a hair salon and laundry mat? They could have spent the money on making the alter larger. Just asking.
I do pray for the blind that they soon well see, so that they can duck when the ROC comes.