Googlebug,

From your posting I understand that you either are currently or were previously closely involved within the ROC. I feel your anger and pain in your words. It was a painful time for me for awhile after I managed to pull free of their tentacles. In fact, I made a stuttering exit... meaning, I left, came back because I missed all that activity and comraderie, and then left again, finally. All of what you say about Geronimo and his leaders walking around in riches while those who live in 'the homes' and 'the ranches' living meagerly is an exact repeat of what has and IS currently still happening with Set Free, his father's church. Now, it's just worse. Now, it's more open. It gets to a point where they brazenly flaunt their money, sexual escapades, drugs and whatnot in front of others. One of the greatest tricks/deals that Phil did was to make deals with local businesses and mayors. He'd make deals to rebuild and remodel condemned homes if the city gave him their exclusive/FREE use for years at a time. He'd then get all the grateful people he'd rescued off one mission or another and use them as the labor. They'd live in 'communal' home situations. No-one was allowed privacy or personal space/property. People would be sandwiched in rooms 6-7 at a time. While he and his family and leaders had their own rooms, own privacy, luxuries that others didn't have. Yes, there would be people sleeping on the livingroom floors of the pastor's home so he could claim even he took people into his home. But it was always the youngest, cutest of them that not surprisinginly found there way into living on his property. hmmmm.... None of the crack addicts or ugly converts seemed to make it onto Phil's property. Anyway, all those people worked day in and day out on various labor projects that Phil engineered. He provided the 'free' labor. What that meant was that he'd tell the people they were working for free and offering their help to this or that 'brother' but he, Phil, took money for those jobs on completion. I wonder if Geronimo has gotten that creative yet.

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googlebug
The Roc is a joke. People think that its this awesome place well just wait until you get involved and your eyes are opened to what is really going on. First of all, you cant question anything at the ROC. If you have a question on a belief or anything else that goes on you had better just leave or else you will be ridiculed and looked down on by everyone there including the oh so holy leadership. They believe that their doctrine is right and anyone else who believes differently is doomed to hell. Im pretty sure it is the other way around. They go out soulwinning and tell people that as long as they say a prayer that they are going to heaven when the Bible clearly states that you have to turn from your wicked ways and live a life resembling to that of Christ Jesus. Second, unless you are in with the pastor you are pretty much screwed. If you are in with the pastor you get nice clothes, gas in your car, your insurance paid for, your cell phone paid for, your car payment paid for, basically everything you can think of and you get a paycheck. Just ask Geronimo's assistant Jammie. If you are not in with the pastor you can pretty much guarantee that you will be living off of 50 dollars a week for the rest of your life while the pastor drives nice cars and lives in a million dollar home and it is obvious that him, his family, and his "300" are definitely not hurting in any aspect. His assistants walk around in the most expensive clothes around as well as his wife Samantha. Third, they take up offerings every week but yet the church still has no money.. sounds a little interesting to me. o wait maybe the church does not have money because one of the assistant pastors steals it to buy drugs for himself and put gas in his little golf cart. Oh and did I mention that there are different rules for different people. Like certain people have to get permission every time they go out with someone of the opposite sex yet others who the pastor knows are openly fornicating are allowed to do whatever they want. The drugs are rampant through the church. People fornicate on a daily basis. One of the assistant pastors has crushes on 20 year old girls. The other assistant pastor has girls over his house from his youth group until 6 in the morning while his wife is in bed. The sad thing is Geronimo knows about all of this and does not do anything about it. People know that they can mess up over and over and over again and never repent of their sin and they will have no type of consequence or remorse so they continue to do it. I personally think that the ROC is a place for people who just openly want to sin and get away with it. They are so brainwashed into thinking that whatever they do does not matter because God forgives. God does forgive but the Bible also says "You praise me with your lips, but your heart is far from me." People at the ROC praise God with their mouth but their actions show that their heart is far from God. The ROC brainwashes people into thinking that as long as you serve God as far as working at the church then you are all set. WRONG. Its all about loving God with our whole heart and doing everything we can to live a life pleasing unto Him. I pray that God opens the eyes at everyone at the ROC to truly see what is going on there. That place is full of deception, drugs, lies, sex, and anything else that is not pleasing to God. I pray that God will convict you in your hearts of what is going on that is not right. But just be aware that once you leave you will have no friends from that place and everyone will be told to not talk to you or have anything to do with you. Trust me there is only one family from that church that continues to talk to me. You will be excommunicated from the church and when they see you out in public they will walk right past you and act like they never knew you. That really shows the love of Christ. Why would you want to be at a place like that?

I agree that everyone gets chances as well - I'm not against grace and mercy I'm just not for priviledged grace and mercy - depending on who you are. The two that have responded that you go to the ROC and know personally how he is devoted to Jesus Christ 24/7 - you are either the Pastor incognito, one of his chosen or you have one of his CD's and are quoting one of his sermons. Isn't that what he hands you anyway to listen to if you ever question anything. Again, he does live in a million dollar home and have a motorcycle, but that's beside the point - but I'm not sure where you get your information from. Free at last - yes he does use his "homeless" labor to collect money. You can "hire" them, and the ROC gets the paycheck. This is a fact. Wrote a check myself to the ROC for labor many times. The justification: they are "living" in one of the homes and aren't required to pay anything. I'm all for working for your keep, but this is nothing but slave labor. No wages - no nothing. None of those working ever get a check in their name - Have you seen the homes they live in - they sleep four, five and six to a room, with not all having beds, no heat, food comes from the food pantry and even though he takes up a collection on Thursdays to help his homes, that's a joke - it never goes to the homes. Are there good things at the ROC - I would like to say yes, but when things that are being done are being done in the name of Jesus, I can't help but wonder how Jesus looks upon this and thinks any of this is good. Nobody ventures upon this site by pure accident - you are looking, looking to see what people are saying - these people are telling the truth. It will all be revealed.

SawtheLight - Wow, your description could easily be about Set Free, it is so exactly the same. You said it exactly, it's a racket... it's slave labor and the miracle is that he is able to balance the concerts and music and revelry enough to maintain a workforce that is likely happy to serve and not even question their slave status. It's that remarkable?

I'd like to recommend to you, and anyone interested, a movie that is poignant and potentially painful or hilarious, depending on your point of view and distance from involvement in cults/destructive leadership-run churches. The movie is: Marjoe. It is a documentary that follows Marjoe (for Mary and Joseph) Gortner on the preaching and bible-thumping trail in 72. He was the youngest ordained minister and married a couple at four years old. What I found most amazing was his absolutely honest portrayal of the techniques used to milk people of money by using scripture and emotional blackmail. I feel this movie is not anti-religion or faith but a reminder to be wary of corruption and maneuvering in a religious setting.

The people who are defending Pastor G obviously have no clue how he really is but then again most people dont until you start getting more and more involved and are more exposed to it. I would encourage the two people who defend the ROC to get involved maybe 4 days a week or something and see what is really going on. The more you are there the harder it is to find the sin that is going on.
I pray that God opens the eyes of those still at the ROC to really see the deception that goes on there. I think it is so sad that so many people are deceived and just have no idea about it or are choosing to be blind to it.
I totally agree with sawthelight when it comes to the slave labor thing. I can honestly say she is 100% right. Many people in the homes were getting sick because of the food that they were getting but did Pastor G care. NO. because he had money to go to Kabuto, Chipotle, Red Robin..whenever he felt like it and pick up his whole groups tab. The people in the homes dont question it though because alot of them have no where to go and Geronimo uses that to his advantage when it comes to free work. I remember times I would drive up to the ROC and see all the people in the homes working their butts off and then all of the "in" crew with Pastor G just sitting around talking and laughing. I also agree with the thing sawthelight wrote about grace and mercy. Im all for it as well but not just for certain people. Big G extends the same grace and mercy and I think that little G should do the same. Why is it that when one of the pastors is addicted to drugs and gets caught its everyone on leaderships job to cover it up for him so no one knows but yet when someone from the homes does it or someone leaves it is automatically spread all around the church. Pretty much you have to be in with the family to get special privileges and if you are then you can do whatever you want and your all good. Pastor G encourages people to be followers of Him, not of God. He does not encourage people to read the Bible for themselves. He shows that he is the supreme authority and you best not talk bad about him or the ROC or he will punch you in your face. They tell you that the doors aren't locked and if you want to leave there are multiple ways to get out and no one is stopping you. Thats so sad. In the Bible in the parable of the lost sheep the shepherd has 100 sheep but loses one and instead of just letting that one go he left his ninety nine and went out looking for that one and searched and searched until he found it. Its sad that instead of the ROC being like that they encourage you to leave. Its sad that once you leave they act like they never knew you. Its sad that people you knew for 5 or 6 years cannot even say hello. Especially the pastor. The ROC is full of gossip and drama. You dont have true friends while you are there. They are your friends until you find out the truth and then they don't need you anymore. Its really sad. Its also really sad that the pastor stands up and says that for every one person who leaves he can get fifteen more to take your place. But really by the looks of things it seems like more people are leaving than coming. I just pray that people will open their eyes and be receptive to Gods truth. Not G's. Two totally different things.

Hi there,

I don't believe in hiding conversations or questions and answers. I spent too many years covering up for the wrongdoings of the leadership of Set Free and defending them and hushing questions. I now believe in open, honest discourse. So, with that said I'm posting a private question brought to me and my response to that person. With all due respect I would reiterate what I said that I believe that still there will be many innocent people and those who staunchly support Geronimo and the various other pastors now who may in future be hurt by what they finally come to see.

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berean1711
Hi
I found this site googling the Roc -- my former roommate is on staff and is probably the most level-headed, bible-reading Christian I know, so this is crazy -- and honestly your posts are confusing me. So far the only Set Free story you posted that seems to belong hear is about Pastor G. and his wife (and really, what are they supposed to do now arrest him for being with the woman he is now married to with three kids? ), the whole crazy threesome thing you posted, what did that have to do with the Roc? Have you ever even been to The Roc in virginia?

MY ANSWER to Berean:

If you have thoroughly paid attention to the last few of my posts, and the basic conversation of the last few days I was pointing out that, yes, it is possible to be heavily involved in a church where a whole lotta corruption is going on and be untainted/untouched by it oneself. And, to also point out that in fact, even when outrageous things keep happening around you, you might still believe firmly in the 'goodness' or absence of bad behavior of the group or leaders, as it applies. It followed with the conversation of the various posts.

Geronimo was a part and a party to all of the corruption that I've been mentioning about Set Free. He learned all of the tricks, from how to get paid for the free labor you provide to various real estate investors, the city, the mayor and so on. The pastor makes these highly profitable financial deals exchanging the free labor of his followers for payments that only he and the upper leadership see. You'll see reports of exactly that going on if you read all of the people's posts. It is an exact duplication of what went/and is going on in Anaheim.

As I stated in my post recent posts, I DO believe that good works and good people will still exist in the church, like your former roommate, I'm sure. God can exist anywhere. So, there's no need to point out the various good individuals or good deeds. What I, and many others, are pointing out is that there is corruption present at the core and it needs to be dealt with.



P.S. In response to Googlebug's last post... I feel you. It was why I had a difficult time leaving the church. Because once your eyes open and you realize you need to move on... you are essentially ostracized.

Hi all,

Below I'm cutting-and-pasting a post from user:Yhall into another topic entitled simply ROC. I read the posting and saw that in fact Ms. Hall was addressing many of the comments made by a few of us in THIS message string so I'm assuming she erroneously posted to a new string, right Yvonne? So, in all fairness and openness I felt that since she was attempting to comment on our running conversation it should be posted for all of us to read. Here's her posting and comments:



My name if Yvonne Hall, I am not going to hide behind a code name in fear that someone will know who I am or what I have to say. I have got to say that this is the most disgusting display of information that I have ever read and is quiet distrubing. I am not sure where many of you are getting this information on Pastor G or his family history. I am a member of the ROC and a proud one. The ROC has over 100 + ministries every week and they are always helping the community.

The thrift stores every week take in money and that money is used to feed the homeless, poor, and the down and out. Each week after church people go to the front of the church and they are given what they need to get as much food as they need. There is nothing lacking about the amount of food they give out.

The bus ministry goes to many locations in the city of Richmond and pick up children from the low income and projects and bring them to church to learn about Jesus. The buses then go back and and pick up others from the same locations and bring 100's of people to church that would otherwise not have a way to get to church to learn the word. These people are transported weekly back and forth at no charge to them.

They have a ministry where you can sponsor a child and every penny that you give each month goes to that child. Unlike many on tv where the child gets what maybe a dollar out of the money.

Pastor G takes not one penny from the sermons they sell or the books that he writes. It is not about the money for him it is about people coming to Jesus and learning his word.

As far as Samantha goes. She is a beautiful person with a beautiful voice. It is my understanding that she has been offer to sing for big name record labels and she has declined. That is not what they are about.

Where ever the information came from that Pastor G lives in a million dollar home is not true either. He is about as down to earth person as your would ever want to meet and he loves and cares about every person that goes to that church, whether they are a member or not. If you have a problem he is there to lend and ear. I might also say that he personally responds to his emails which is special in the sense that he takes the time to be involved in what is going on in the members lives.

As far as the speculation about him and his secretary that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. His staff is a very close knit group and that is because they all started together and have been family for many many years. They have been through the worst of times together and in case no one out there is aware they came here with nothing and built The ROC to what is is today. Nobody twists anyones arm and makes them come to church there. I do promise you that if you go once you will never go to another church because it is the BEST church in the world. A church is what you make it. It is not about Pastor G it is about everyone there.

I am sure that many of you that have made these unjustified comments both about Pastor G and the church because you have never been there. Not only that what ever church you might go to, you obviously arent paying attention to what is being taught. Well then maybe you are. I myself and I am sure that Pastor G would consider what is on this site to be idle gossip. That is one thing that he hates. I am sure he would not find it offensive, just stupid.

The ROC is not the traditional church that everyone expects to go to and sit and be bord and feel like falling asleep. If that is the type of church you want then The ROC is not the place for you. With that in mind Pastor G will give you the advice in two words "ROLL OUT". I assure you that he whole heartedly means it. If you are not for the church you are against it and The ROC is not the place for you. Dont get me wrong everyone is welcome there and everyone is treated the same. It does not matter if you have a drug addiction, or an alcohol problem, or whatever it is, you are welcome. If you are coming there to criticize Pastor G, the staff, or the church please dont come. Negativity is not needed. The ROC is a very upbeat positive church. It is not a cult, or some kind of an off the wall religious group, or want to be christian motor cycle club, it is a plain and simple church with a lot to offer.

The ROC even has a group of staff in one the worst schools in the City of Richmond working with the kids that have needs that go beyond traditional learning. This group of staff members is truly making a difference in the lives of these kids. Please let me know, how many churches go into the schools and work with the kids, are willing to go to the low income and projects and pick up the kids and adults and bus them to church. The answer is none. That is because 99% of the churches today want and cater to perfect people or people who think they are. Do you think that churches lets say with people that consider themselves upper class would sit next to someone from the projects or offer to go and pick them up and bring them to church. If you answer yes, you are fooling no one but yourself. They dont want those type of people in their church.

All of the information that people have written in these blogs about Pastor G's family, the church, the staff, or the church family, if there is any truth or what is actually the truth we all at The ROC know. Pastor G does not hide things from the church, he is very open and knows that we all have things that we need to deal with and things that go wrong in our lives. So whatever is or has gone on in his life that is factual or true we know about. He makes no bones about telling the truth about and hides nothing. We all have a past and anyone who says they dont is lying. Apparently there are a few people on this blog that could use a trip or two to church to learn right and wrong. Please dont think that by telling these lies and talking about him and his family is going to take away from him. It is not. I am here to say that he is a man of GOD and he makes no bones about letting you know.

To Yhall and her comments: Wow! I'm so glad that someone with intimate knowledge of the ROC's financial statements is willing to share the details of their financial accounting. If you would please elaborate on their financial records to accurately detail the holdings of the church and the cash flow from said businesses it would easily dispel the comments made by other members of the ROC here. I think we'd all welcome the confirmation that in at last that area the leadership is not up to no good. Please do share. The best way to dispel 'idle gossip' or fallacious rumours is with factual data. I for one welcome it.

Since Yhall has no knowledge of ROC's finance status, I'll try to expound on this subject what I know. At the joke-of-the-annual-business meeting held this summer, NO statements were given out. The meeting was held at 9:00 PM, when people were ready to leave the church for home. Several noticed that in MISCELLANEOUS there was an amount of over $60,000.....????? What's that all about??? In MISCELLANEOUS? IF someone wants to read a statement of the church finances, one has to read it there. A copy cannot be taken off the premises. As well, a copy of the ROC by-laws may be read at church ONLY, not taken off the premises. Why is that? Who knows? Geronimo, for sure.

There is much said about "gossip" should not be spoken at the ROC. Yet, Geronimo goes out of his way to inquire of others about those who have left, what's going on with such-and-such, who said so-and-so, etc. Why is that? He hates gossip, yet he seeks it out??

He knows the truth, he knows why people leave, that's why he makes sure no one speaks with them once they are gone. How can he do that? Is he that powerful? I don't think so, perhaps he does.

msnbc...don't you know when you first attend the ROC, you don't see all the evidence of the "inner core"? You know that. You are also probably too close to his posse to question anything. Perhaps you receive favors. Not everyone does. You know the truth. Will you speak out? Probably not. Too bad.

But God is watching...and so we wait.

Sorry Yhall - Pastor G does live in a million dollar home, given to him by one of the members at the ROC who has special privileges because of her millions in giving to the ROC. He does drive a $100,000 Mercedes, and he is involved in RE holdings with another ROC member. He has always driven vehicles provided by the ROC's offerings, as do several of his close-knit church family. If you are IN many do get to drive a new or used vehicle paid for by ROC funds. You should ask him about that. It's true. A recent used motorcycle was purchased for a member. Ask about that. Ask about other motorcycles that the actual offering has paid for. Thrift store money is used to pay bills, if you have listened to Pastor G, he has said this before. The ROC wouldn't be able to support itself without money from these stores. That's also true. Why do you think we have them? To support the church. People do get food after service on Saturday night but not as much as they need. Not sure where you get that information from. The bus ministry is great. The youth ministry is great. There's also speculation about the youth pastor and a church member involved in, you guessed it. Ask Pastor G. He may or may not tell you the truth about this. It might be none of your business. But why couldn't the youth group leader afford trophies when they won at baseball? That's not fair. They have money for trophies, they appeal to a larger audience for grants and such. Poor kids, they love trophies. The child sponsors is donated by people. It is a great ministry and no money from the ROC account supports this ministry, just caring members. The church provides money to the leaders of church for groceries, car or truck gas, fine dining, entertainment, trips, flights to wherever, and again, vehicles for many there, including motorcycles. Don't believe it? Ask your pastor. Do you think he is honest about everything and never hides anything? Wrong. Ask him. He probably won't tell you the truth. Speculation about him your pastor of a thing with his secretary - ask him. Since there was no witness, I guess it's not true, correct? Don't gossip. That's most of his messages. knowtruth is right. He does search out gossip. Ask him.

Hey Gzuss..

Thank you and many others for having the courage to come forth and take a cold, hard look at the leadership of your church. I went through that. And it seemed to me that the very second my own eyes were opened, I was put in the position of helping to open the eyes of others I knew as people before me did it for me. I didn't even have time to process my own feelings. So, thanks to you all for standing firm on what you see and know of the inappropriate behavior going on with some of the leadership at the ROC. There will be many more of Yhall's type. They will either innocently defend him and others, or get angry and vindictive toward anyone willing to speak out. That's what his type of leadership and exclusionary practices breeds. That's what he wants to happen. He will continue to cushion himself with people who will staunchly, if not blindly, support him.

I disagree with one of your statements though. It IS 'our' business what the leadership of a church are doing with the funds, and on a moral front. You should be able to demand certain moral practices and standards in a religious 'leader.' A true leader of character can and will deny temptations and follow the most moral path and take their role as a leader seriously. They don't rely heavily on the whole 'redemption by the blood' theory. "the blood covers a multitude of sins" defense doesn't wash. Look at Job. He was tested, and tested and tested again. He withstood it all and followed his spiritual path and beliefs. That's the sign of a leader who is 'right'.

Also, it IS our business to know the financial accountings of a church. The leadership should include a democratically elected body, including oversight on all church income and expenses and proposed projects. It shouldn't be hidden. A pastor shouldn't be able to just decide on his own to start or stop any project or ministry. It should have to go before the board. The board members should be democratically elected by the body at large (the entire body of the church) and should rotate with regularity to avoid corruption or complacency. What kind of double standard does he and the other leaders exhibit by driving in Mercedez' and living in million dollar homes... while bragging often about how 'humble and giving they are because of this or that ministry that feeds the hungry. Yeah. feed the hungry... I remember that with him and his father at Set Free. Feed the hungry ministries were usually donated, throw-away food items given to the church. The church never even paid for those things with the funds they collected. The donated items would be dented cans and boxes of pitiful foods, mystery cans without labels... wilted perishable foods. People would eat pasta with butter because there was nothing better to be had... when Geronimo and his family used to go out daily to restaurants, paying for EVERYONE who he invited to come with him, and that was usually a LARGE contingent of posse and biker friends. How can one possibly brag about a humble/giving ministry to demonstrate some sense of charity when that disparity exists at the same time? Charity involves actually GIVING of oneself or one's own possessions. That was NEVER happening at set Free by Geronimo or his father. Not ever.

And what a double standard to openly admonish people for gossiping (about himself) while seeking out gossip in private? What's with publicly admonishing anyone anyway? What kind of generous Christian, loving spirit is that? What if someone truly were experiencing a small stumble in the lord and backsliding... then to have that be made worse by being publicly ridiculed by their own spiritual leader in front of all their peers in Christ, then ostracized by them as well like a pariah. Yes, that's definitely the key to help a stumbling brother back into the right path. But that's all fantasy. The reality about Geronimo and his father's tactics is that they aren't actually ever admonishing someone for backsliding. They are admonishing and ostracizing them for daring to break from the corrupt practices and/or to start actually asking questions.

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gzusslord
It might be none of your business. .... He does search out gossip. Ask him.