And one more thing about vilifying the girl. Pastor Phil did the same thing in his book. It's Called "Forgive Me Father, for I have sinned." There's a lot of secrets exposed in that book. I knew G had been married before and abandoned his kids, but that was pretty much it. But in the book, there's a chapter called "Not My Geronimo". or something close to that. The chapter had this kind of "Why God? On top of everything else, my son betrays us!" Like an anguished soul. I'm sure it's a biased piece of writing, though.

Basically, he said that a new talented girl in the band (or whatever) that G rapped for, had seduced him away, a 14 year old! He basically portrayed Sammie as a she-devil and G was tricked into running away with her. Like she was the agent of evil that used her to destroy the church or at least G and his family.

Also. About Stacee. I need to get in touch with the Free At Last girl who was with set free. Stacee needs to know this. When I heard G's son had gone to the ROC with Chill, I was shocked. I'd been trying to tell someone about the abandoned other family,and was told, "It's fine. Taylor's here right now!" AND NOBODY WAS SURPRISED AT ANY OF THE BOOK'S PREVIOUSLY SECRET INFO... AND THEY DID NOT READ IT!

I don't think G had a choice but to reveal this stuff in his way, before the book came out. Or people found out about it, whatever. Who knows who's seen it over there? Well, if he couldn't suppress it, he was going to turn it around. There's no way he didn't read it or know what it said. All of the expose's were old news in the nick of time. So, instead of being exposed as a deadbeat dad and child molester, he called Stacee and got Taylor over there. How he explained it I do not know. But Taylor has been well funded and surrounded by any resource he would need. He started that band, Moshe Dayan, and supposedly there was a fight at the first show, Sean Weiber was getting bullied by his own band mates (Beau is usually the instigator and has been insulting his musical ability behind his back for years, and other people go along with it, stupid childish stuff like ruining his possessions).

It's true that the real Moshe Dayan's grandson was told this remarkable testimony about Taylor, like, a bio, and FULL of dramatic lies or exaggerations. And poor Sean parroted it like a robot! Someone else had the article a few posts back. Read it. I don't like that brainwashed Sean lied to such a huge and important author. That was so ridiculous. This man is very well known for his work about his grandfather. But the idiots at the ROC caused him to print FAKE NEWS! They cared nothing for him, but it was great publicity for the band. G's fake testimony worked, so how about one for Taylor? The cycle of generations continues.

Come on, G and Taylor, it's time to break the curse before a fourth generation is born into this corrupt and twisted ministry.! You are supposed to teach the Word, not use it like a tool for... whatever you're doing. What ARE you doing? What is the PURPOSE? It can't be just money and power. Are you God's general now, the exception to rule of law? How do you feel being so strict with the disciples, allowing their overseers to abuse people verbally, sexually, emotionally while you and the staff do whatever you all want with no consequences? How do you feel after a big meal in your beautiful home, when the disciples don't get fed enough, slave away selling clothes for ROC profit, living in old places that are practically condemnable and filthy?

EVERYONE's a tool to them! Do they really know about General Moshe Dayan, or did they just think Pastor Phil's name suggestion years before was cool and represented the warrior who fought evil, no matter the cost? It's 300 again! (Btw, 300 is officially the only R movie that ROC members can watch. Note the word officially.) What's the endgame here? Zionism or something? Christian Zionism? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_ZionismTheir behavior is baffling. They will fall one day and probably know it, & are really living it up like it's 1999.

"For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.” Rev 12:12

My biggest fear is not that they might get away with all of it, but, as their harm escalates, what kinds of things they will do in the meantime. How far they will go.

Pray for all those school kids. I know some award happened and delinquency is very much down... But this might be a disguised as an angel of light thing. There are demonic works, here. ROC has power and influence. Since they target children above all others, you have to wonder what sort of seed is being planted in young minds. I wonder if they ever hang out with the older kids. Are they, like, getting groomed for joining the Chosen or anything about the ROC? They'd HAVE to attend. If they went elsewhere after "all the ROC has done" for them, they would be outcasts. I could never get it right, with any of the pastors. I was frantic all the time, for fear of making a mistake and being humiliated and degraded in front of everyone. These kids...let them know the good from the bad, because they won't at the ROC.

Please, Pastor G. Or whoever from the ROC that checks this thing. Please show it to him? Please Pastor G, I am afraid for you. I'm afraid for me. We all should be afraid.... And while there is no millstone hanging on my neck, the weight of horror I feel right now, eyes opened more with every keystroke, the shameful knowledge of "What have we become?" is heavier. God does not want this. We are ruining it, despising our anointing like Esau with his birthright. I want to be David. Not Saul.

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trustnhim
comeon pastor gee. give compasion 2 the young 16yer old victim next thursday bible study. instead of perputrator. you can relate. you kno. we know.
[www.christianpost.com]

I found the Bible Study vid from August third, where Pastor G addresses the Schaap problem. That's the one you meant, right Trustnhim? It's 7 minutes, but the Jack part is at 4:30, I believe. I'm going to watch the whole thing. Prediction: sticking together no matter what, don't let yourself sow discord if you are angry, but what's the point of being angry? Don't give the enemy a foothold with unforgiveness and strife/gossip. It's what the enemy wants, division, when we need to be doing the opposite! We need to unite for the cause of the Lord, we stick together, the church body must be whole and strong, and then no weapon formed against us will prosper. Especially not stupid scandals or lies. Do you think the enemy can tear the church apart? Then they get all hyped.

As for Schaap, I really don't know. He could say Look at what a beautiful girl can do! So beware. And I don't know what G'd do after that.
He could vilify Schaap: Look at what was done right under our noses! (don't make me laugh with that one.) Pull together, know your enemy, be accountable. The more firm the Church body is, the more we can spot interlopers. And enforce things.
He could play it all sad, Why did he never come to me for help? Pride? Needing the Lord requires that you humble yourself before him and others. Please come to me with your problems. You know where I'm going with this, and I'd rather not speculate about such people.

But, dude. I had no idea the Schaap thing was so exploitable! It's just bursting with potential.

[www.youtube.com]

"Thursday Night Bible Study: Pastor G. speaks on current events including Chick-Fil-A protests, the Olympics, fallen megachurch pastor Jack Schaap, and the biggest threat against the Church of God, and it's not the Devil." Any guesses? *eyeroll*

The one thing that really got to me is how G is defending this man and saying everybody refuses to talk to Schaap but G. They talked for two hours. He will remain his brother no matter what. The "Christians" are tearing Schaap down worse than the world. G says we are not going to be like that, etc. etc. etc.

BUT THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE ROC DOES TO EVERYONE THAT GETS KICKED OUT OF THE CHURCH. There is NO difference. EVERYBODY who has ever had to leave the ROC loses all their friends, a person might as well not exist or die. And even if some people disagree, there's nothing they can do except not get caught having or maintaining any friendship behind their backs.

And... this guy sexually abused a child. Probably more than a few times. With more than a few girls (hopefully just girls).And Sammie was14. I do not know about any other girls. I say prove it because some of those accusations basically indicate a longterm problem with pedophilia among these IBF leaders. It sounds like some kind of underground weirdness like Nambla.

But Sammie and that girl... those we know to be true. And I hate to even realize something that is crossing my mind right now, but....

It's not all that hard to get kicked out of the ROC. Usually it's getting high, sneaking around (like going to party in the middle of the night), disrespect, sex... but I don't really think that last one happens too often. The staff has sex with the disciples, for example, and that would never be made public. Any male staff that got caught having sex didn't seem to get in much trouble. One pastor got sent to rehab or a ranch for 3 months or so.

But pedophilia? Sexual abuse? The FBI is investigating it! And breaching Pastor counsellee/member trust? A psychiatrist would have their licence revoked, go to prison, and sued for everything he was worth for having sex with a pediatric patient. If only the ROC was this merciful to disciples with nowhere to go, no job, no money, probably no family if the are living at the ROC, in immediate danger of relapse, who are already doing slave labor for barely any food, the ROC might actually have a good success rate for disciple recovery!

Does anyone get the feeling that girls are toilet paper and sexual sin in no big deal to these people????

A Pastor being at a ranch for sexual misconduct issues? Haven't heard that one. Drugs, yes. Sex, no.

The reason I say no, and don't think that statement is accurate because you even said yourself that sexual sin isn't dealt with at the ROC, or really even confronted.

Just trying to figure that one out.

Yes, you are right. I was unclear. Long night...

This particular discipline was a few years back and it was a relapse situation. Everything was fine when he got back. That one... okay, I know more stuff about that person than will fit inside my brain. But there's no point in talking about it whatsoever, except the very relevant fact that... they let him alone, I guess. Not holding leadership accountable includes backing off, ignoring potential issues. Two people were unable to ask for help for some reason, pride maybe, and they weren't under enough scrutiny to monitor successfully. I don't know what pastor G thought about any of that. He shares strong bonds with his nearest and dearest, loyalty is an extremely prized quality to a weird extent. But that often leads to enabling. That's what I meant before about the differences between how people are treated at higher and lower levels of the hierarchy over there. It's completely the opposite! Lowly ones are tossed out with reckless abandon, yet it is those closest to the top that could end up forgiven to a detrimental level.

Jason was a detective. I wander how he feels about obvious wrongdoing that he HAS to have noticed by now. I thought he wanted to combat evil and hold the perpetrators accountable? Did he yield to the influences of corruption that quickly and easily? If not, this is an even bigger problem than anyone thought. The government has their hands all in it to a certain degree, regarding a few different issues. More investigating.

I want to be just paranoid about all of this. I'm mental, the anti-Occam's-razor. It's exhausting. I didn't start posting because of Jack, obviously. I would never have known without this forum. Yes, I'm familiar with this ministry and it's people, and I've witnessed and participated in plenty of BS, so the paranoia isn't unreasonable. But this latest thing has opened up wounds. I'm too freaked out to not keep one eye open.

But after reading stuff like this Pastoral Club 1 and this Pastoral Club 2 (these are the guys who are all in disagreement about Jack and his support of G... read the comments! They cover every spectrum of crazy and they're all guilty of the same sin!) and this Pastoral Club 3 (Hyles' son and Jack Hyles himself, who mentored Pastor Phil and father-in-law of Jack Schaap, Hyles who is the common denominator for this whole group)... not only am I thinking zebras, I'm thinking my Nambla comment might not be so inconceivable after all.

regarding posts of this last page. Loyalty is a fine quality and the church really needs some more of it, but, these people seem to talk and behave they they are still in a gang. At least in my observation. Or, is it just me? Just asking.

I don't know if I'd say a gang mentality, I don't think that's a fair comparison, but that's my opinion.

There definitely is a "lifestyle" there that people get caught up in. That's probably as simply and best I could explain it.

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hismercy
regarding posts of this last page. Loyalty is a fine quality and the church really needs some more of it, but, these people seem to talk and behave they they are still in a gang. At least in my observation. Or, is it just me? Just asking.

I looked it up: a group of people who associate together or act as an organized body, esp for criminal or illegal purposes.

Obviously, sex stuff is NOT the purpose. With a church, I'd say cult. With a network of Church Leadership, it's almost like a secret society, in the sense that I think they feel pretty safe to do what they want among each other. That applies to the individual churches, too. The regular congregation of the ROC probably doesn't know a whole lot about what goes on or what problems with staff are happening. So the hierarchy reap the best benefits (illegal things would be permitted to some extent, at least from what I've seen). The congregation enjoys the dynamic preachers, music, services, plenty to do, never get bored, get lots of attention if they give big money. It's a feel-good place and the ministry homes people and RSUM students are their slaves, fresh off drugs and exploitable. So that's more like Mob Bosses, Mob wives, minions/thugs/worker bees and on the side mistresses. Biker clubs are an okay (but not great) example of the sexist ROC stuff, and the soldiers are bikers. However...

The Roc won't make a person stay. Some people are just gone immediately, the staff is quick to show disciples the door. That's opposite of gang. I need to research this more and I can't right now. Up til the sunrise, need sleep...

I did find this interesting about everybody's model, Jack Hyles, and the connections are very obvious (bus ministry, for one).

Jack Hyles preached a bastardized version of the Christian gospel. The Hyles gospel has been labeled as decisional regeneration or one, two, three, repeat after me. I used to label the gospel of the IFB church movement as:

win them
wet them
work them
waste them

The only thing that mattered was winning souls. Dennis Corle told me one time that I should spend more time soulwinning and less time studying in preparation to preach on Sunday.

The key to church growth was to keep more people coming in the front door than were going out the back door. IFB churches are notorious for turning over their church memberships.

Here's the whole thing if anyone wants to read it, but keep in mind it's not about the ROC. It's about the Hyles pastoral style and church model. The links are true and accurate. All of this info is. But it's easily deniable and written by people with a bone or two to pick (original article doesn't really have that problem but the writer dropped Christianity over the whole mess. Legacy of Hyles

That was interesting. Thanks for posting that.

Does anyone have information on Chill Aguilar? They visited True Vine church in Richmond this past weekend but were not seen at The ROC.