No, I am not comparing Steve Hassan to Sigmund Freud. I am merely pointing out the fact that Freud did not see himself as a scientist.

Steve Hassan is not a plagiarist. Goodbye.

Hi Zeuszor;
While certainly most theories are based on constructs and can't be proved, one can prove the effectiveness, or lack of it , of how a technique actually works.


IE : If you say your technique is better than other people, you should have some type of empirical evidence to back it up.
Maybe he has some type of study or numbers to demonstrate this; in that case imo he should produce these, or at least define in what way he feels his technique is "better".

That is a point that I do agree with Dr Mann about, and as Anticult showed, Mr Hassan does claim his technique is "better" on his site.

Dr Mann also criticizes Mr Hassan for only citing successful case histories.That does seem to be pretty common. I was recently reading O'Hanlons book "Even from a Broken Web"; much the same could be said about him. I may have missed it, but I don't remember any "failure type " case studies.

Interesting statement in a "Favorite Counseling and Therapy Techniques" by H Rosenthal p 20
"When you read text books written by world famous therapists,keep in mind that they are almost always top heavy in terms of focusing on successes rather than failures. Even Master therapists do not succeed with every client."

so again weighing the anecdotes fairly heavily in ones own favor appears to be a fairly common problem.

Your argument however which appears to suggest Mr Hassan should not have to work by normal rules is a scary one. The reason for ethical codes to prevent abuses of power and position.

Dr Mann ; thank you for your book referrals,I will try and find and read them.
(By the way, to clarify, I have an academic interest in this topic, but I am not a counselor or mental health professional.)



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 09:56AM by yasmin.

To whom it may concern:

I sent the link to this thread to Steve himself, and he asked me to state that I have been participating in this thread without his direction/permission (but instead on my own time and of my own volition). If anyone legitimately is interested in finding out Steve's responses to Ross, Mann and Pignotti, they are welcome to email him at his publicly-posted email address.

As well, I have never been hired to write a research report that any client paid $125 an hour for.

Furthermore: Steve has consulted extensively with the Rev. Bob Pardon, the individual who introduced me to Steve and Steve has only shown proper boundaries and respect-never wishing to take advantage of me. I hardly feel exploited by anybody.

Steve has held himself back from responding to the attacks and absurd accusations as he has been advised by more than a few prominent people in the filed to ignore these three and not engage them. That it is a huge waste of valuable time. Steve further asked me to say that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Freud was a medical doctor, an internist; never a psychologist. It's a myth that Freud is the founder of psychology. He's the founder of psychoanalysis, which is very different. Someone watching too much TV or reading out of date articles (say about 50 years) may rely on the legacy of Freud. Again, most psychologists have moved beyond these outdated theories. Freud rejected the biological bases of behavior, and sought out to create his own mythology, based primarily on the work of Mesmer, who help found hypnosis. This is a historical fact. Psychoanalysts still exist, but they are not mainstream at all. Psychology, through research, has now come full circle and the latest research supports the idea that most behavior is biological in nature.

Theories in order to be valid must be disprovable. This is the essence of science. It is based on the seminal work of Karl Popper.

Hassan is no original. he's never developed any original theories. He just says it, and "poof" it must be true to his ardent followers. It is my view that this is very cult like. He has become, to use the ideas of the great John Douglass of the FBI Behavioral Unit, what he sees in others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 10:34AM by Cathleen Mann, PhD.

Yes, it is true that most people publish only selective, complimentary accounts of their successes. However, this does not make it right. There is no way to check the validity of these testimonials, and they're self serving. It is my opinion that they should be excluded all together because they leave a false impression that every case was a success. I know for a fact that not everyone of Hassan's interventions have been successful in getting people out of their groups on a permanent basis. Why not just admit it and give people a realistic view of the struggles of an intervention?

I should have said Karl Popper is the founder of the falsification theory of science. Just wanted to clarify. You can look him up on Wikipedia.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 11:07AM by Cathleen Mann, PhD.

Hi Dr Mann; I agree that a book is in my mind is much more interesting informative, and accurate if it includes failures as well as successes.
And you are right that the effects of a theory should be testable.
To quote a selection of statements from "Perspectives on Personality" by Carver et al,
A theory is used for two purposes, (and this is true no matter what the theory pertains to) the first purpose is to explain the phenomenon it addresses.....(page 7)

( page 8)Theories also have a second purpose, though. A theory should also suggest possibilities you don't yet know for sure are true.To put it differently, a theory should allow you to predict new information.
it goes on to state
(page 9)"some theories are criticized because they are based heavily on the theorists experiences in conducting therapy.Others are criticized because they rely heavily on the behavior of laboratory animals in highly restricted situations.Yet others are criticized because they rest heavily on information from long sets of rating scales.None of these sources of information are bad in itself.But to base a theory on only one source of information weakens the theory."

I do see some similarities between therapists and religious leaders, particularly in regard to the power differential, and think this is why ethical standards are so important.
Do you feel that in terms of your issues with Mr Hassan that he has crossed important ethical boundaries and should be reported to his licensing board, or is this more a case of dislike of his personality, techniques, and approach?

By the way, it was interesting to read about Karl Popper;being Jewish in Nazi Germany would have been very difficult. Interesting; per Wikepedia Karl Popper believed that " scientific theories are abstract in nature and can be tested only indirectly by reference to their implications"
I think that is what I was trying to say earlier; the ideas unperpinning most theories are abstract constructs;but you can test the effectiveness of the theory.
I agree with you that some of the newer stuff on brain plasticity is really interesting; and also much more readily provable through scans etc.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 11:50AM by yasmin.

zeuszor:

Let's see if I have this right.

1. You work for Steve Hassan, but you are not here working for Steve Hassan now.

2. Bob Pardon runs a rehab for former cult members and has a history of working closely with Steve Hassan, but the fact you went through his rehab and ended up working for Steve Hassan is not evidence of any breach regarding "proper boundaries" or "taking advantage of [you]".

3. Steven Hassan "asked" you to speak for him here, but refuses to respond here publicly.

And you "hardly feel exploited by anybody."

I am very sorry for you Brian, but you seem to have exchanged following one cult leader for another seemlingly similar situation.

If you ever take the time to seriously explore just the issue of Mr. Hassan's plagiarism, you will discover that Dr. Mann's critique is correct. Steve Hassan has copied the ideas of others without specific credit or proepr attribution.

Dr. Mann and Dr. Pignotti both once worked with Steve Hassan. I also worked and met with Steve Hassan during the 1980s and early 1990s. We all terminated any working relationship with him due to his unethical and unprofessional behavior.

I have also received serious complaints from families about Steve Hassan, which is why there are not links to "Freedom of Mind" or any of Mr. Hassan's books at this Web site.

And "more than a few prominent people in the filed" have confided that they too have received similar complaints, regarding Mr. Hassan's fees and unprofesional conduct.

Apparently almost anyone prominent in the field knows about Steve Hassan's ethical lapses, penchant for plagiarism, excessive fees and unprofessional conduct. Many have chosen to remain silent, which in my opinion enables Mr. Hassan to continue his bad behavior and hurt more people.

Dr. Mann, Dr. Pignotti and I have chosen not to remain silent.

Please understand that the doctors and I have all known Steve Hassan a long time. Much longer than your two year association. Sadly, you will likely learn the hard way why many people have a problem working with him and why many that once did have ceased working with him.

I sincerely hope that things work out for you.

All the best.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2012 09:34PM by rrmoderator.

Why does someone need permission from Hassan to post here? How controlling.

So, Hassan is staying silent because others have advised him to? I don't believe it. He is just using his familiar pattern of having others defend him and speak for him.

What does "glass houses" mean? I have a transparent practice and am upfront about what I do. To say such a thing via a spokesman is pathetic. Steve has a commercial website where no one can provide feedback in any way. If you try to post anything but unquestioning promotion of Steve and his media appearances on his facebook page, then you get banned and your posts are erased.

Steve is the emulation of a cult leader in my opinion. He has operators who defend him and talk for him in his lofty perch. I don't believe he has any defense which is the real reason he stays silent. He needs to know that I have emails, documents, and contacts with people who have been hurt and exploited by him. I just hope he is more careful with the emails he sends out, because some of them end up getting forwarded to me. I have also heard many, many complaints about Steve's attitudes and methods from many people so I guess Hassan can't control everyone.

And, Brian, your protests are not convincing based on many people's long association with Steve. I mean, what do you expect him to say when he forbids you to post (or even read) here?

When I closed the FOM (freedom of mind) listserv on my own initiative due to the many complaints I received and Steve's interference, he seeme to want to control what I said about closing the list that I started, owned, and moderated. Yet, he did not ask me directly, but had someone from his office email me to find out what I was saying. (I deleted the name of Steve's employee to protect his or her identity). See:


----- Original Message -----
From: freedomofmind.com>
To: "Cathleen A. Mann" <cathleenmann@comcast.net>
Cc: "Steven Hassan" <hassan@freedomofmind.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 11:49:41 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: From Steve's Office

Dear Cathleen:

A client called asking what has happened to the discussion board. Steve wonders how you have been answering queries of this nature? He wants to ensure you are both on the same page as far as what to say to people. Let us know. Thanks.

Regards,
___________________________________________________________

I guess I need to be "on the same page" with comments I make just like Brian Birmingham.