Can anyone point to some information about the Ishayas and what their connection is to Transcendental Meditation, and who the mysterious MSI is? It would especially help to get basic info on this because I don't have a solid understanding of some of the Eastern-influenced cults.

I recently learned that an old friend of mine, along with members of her family, is planning to become a teacher within the Ishaya. From the little information I could find online, the Ishayas practice some form of meditation called "Ascension" and are based in Lincoln City, Oregon. They have another location in Canada, where people who want to get "ascended" faster can pay $20,000 to become a teacher, and go through "TT" (Teacher Training).

I was able to find a little info about them on Factnet, but nothing here at RickRoss.com. I hope they'll be added to the database. It sounds like for the vast majority of people, they are offering free courses in meditation, but to go "higher" you have to pay out the nose, and withdraw from family.

Having being raised in the early daze of the TM movement, and still with family connections, I know so many TM spin-offs. Not worth my time to list them all.

I don't remember hearing of Ishayas. But I left TM almost 20 yrs ago. If that group is a more recent spinoff, I would not know. Besides the spinoffs, many former TMers just cult-hop (for the rest of their lives sometimes!). The cult-hoppers may be Ishaya's only connection.

T,

If I may, I agree here...I think that any one of us that possibly get "spider-webbed" into a cult or cult-like techniques
, come out similar?......What the "f" would I know?...except

from being a logical-conscious "up-front, in-my - face-witness", about this stuff?

Well, people, I am still here, after the explosions, dis-trust-tie-rades (sp?) hitting, and spittting/cassette-tyoe responses from my 'soul-mate ' of 20 yrs......


I will not apologize if you disagree or don't understand....It's something (along with others that post here) that is happin' on my path....but it's out there!!!!!!! B-ware & gather info to protect yourself or e-m me......

PAX

Quote
Peyton_Place
I don't have a solid understanding of some of the Eastern-influenced cults

Singer's book "Cults in our Midst" has a chapter about TM titled something like "Hindu based meditation cult" If Ishaya is structured similarly to TM, you might find some useful information there. As outsider, you may not be able to rescue your friends who are diving into Ishaya-land, especially since a family group is doing it together.

The Ishaya websites use a lot of the same verbage as TM. An overlap of followers is likely. Will folks never learn? Addicts trying the new designer drugs? Please forgive my analogy, that's what it looks like from where I sit - watching family and former buddies rave about the latest-and-greatest. :roll:

[www.ishaya.org]

[www.ishaya.net]

[www.ishaya.com]

[www.ishayatechniques.com]

Here's the connection - the founder is a former TMer, lost business through divorce, and decided to form a cult to generate new life ($$):

[www.ishaya.com]

Hi, Toni, et al.

I heard about this group last year and thought they were somehow connected with a late 19th Century author's idea about Jesus (Issa) in India. I don't know if the makers of this "cult" drew upon that or not.

I talked about my involvement with Mahesh in another thread (Mahesh and Money). What Mahesh very cleverly offers is the 'security' of trusting him. He alone has all the secrets. He very openly acknowledges that he was so devoted to his Master that he made his own mind just like his Master's.

On a recent Buddhist retreat, I found myself wishing that there was a specific answer to cling to. Rather than being free to simply meditate, I found I wanted something to cling to! This may sound somewhat insignificant, but it is exactly what cult leaders offer: something to cling to. We get into a vulnerable situation and the cult leader insinuates him/herself as the answer, that which can be depended upon above all else.

It's very clever, very hurtful, very unethical and very human. It's part of parenting, isn't it! you need me -- and away goes your money.

Fortunately on my retreat, the teacher kept pointing us back to ourselves; we were the answer. It was a very interesting examination of the difference between ethical and unethical, real spirituality and cult-mentality.

But, getting back to Mahesh who claimed to have made his mind like his Masters, the logical conclusion is that if you make your mind like Mahesh's, then, obviously, you will be like Mahesh. On the surface, to the believers, this is something incredibly desirable, isn't it! -- After all, the Organization says that he is widely acknowledged as the leading expert on consciousness. They don't add that this wide acknowledgement is confined to the TM organization and the believers attached to it. Real scientists, that is, scientists who have not attached to the TM world-view, pay Mahesh as little attention as they do fortune tellers or sandwiches displaying the image of the virgin mary.

Mahesh's organization is founded on Mahesh's meditation technique which advocates that the mind goes in the direction of more and more. In other words, the greed/desire/itching to know his secrets drives the desire to find out his secrets ... and thereby hangs the hook.

It would appear that the Ishayas have bought into this interesting and quite unethical device. Anyway, I signed up for their free course, so will be able to recognize, I hope, what they are up to and how much of their "come hither" selling scheme is related to Mahesh.

There are two recent documentaries that I think everyone interested in cult studies would be interested in reviewing: Ken Burns' on Frank Lloyd Wright and a recent PBS documentary on Charles E. Bedaux.

Bedaux is probably not a familiar name, but at the turn of the previous century he got into being an efficiency expert. He devised ways to more efficiently produce more and therefore make greater profits. Finally he ended up collaborating with the Nazis during WWII.

Why is he interesting? Like F L Wright, he had a very high opinion of himself and manipulated others for his own ends. We seldom get to see the workings of cult leaders as clearly as in these two documentaries. I thought they helped clarify what clut leaders "do" so that the mythos of the cult leader being somehow more special than the rest of us can be disposed of.

Basically, whether we are talking about Mahesh, Wright, Bedaux or a host of cult leaders, what we are really talking about is self-driven individuals whose need for our favour is so high they will do anything to get it!

So, who's really in control here?

Yes, each of us. We may be tempted to pay any price to get something for nothing. People do that; Mahesh certainly proved it on a grand scale, once upon a time. The Ishayas seem to be trying it.

Paying any price to get something for nothing is what it's all about. Think on it.

M

I have contacted a friend at MUM (Mahesh’s “university” in Iowa) where the Ishaya leader claims to have been a student. Hopefully this will reveal a little more about the Ishaya organization.

There are two things noteworthy about the “value” of Mahesh’s meditation method (“TM” [i:7b4ec59221]transcendental [/i:7b4ec59221]meditation): (1) the method or use of a mantra and (2) the mantra.

Because most people focus on the mantra as if it were somehow magical, because Mahesh really makes no effort to disclaim this focus of attention, he can literally [i:7b4ec59221]sell [/i:7b4ec59221]people the fulfilment of their desires under the guise of his definition of the function of mind – it goes in the direction of more and more. According to Mahesh, the mantra, when used properly, takes the mind to more and more, [i:7b4ec59221]i.e.[/i:7b4ec59221] to the source of mind itself. This is questionable, yet massive numbers of well-intentioned individuals have not questioned this at all and handed over the course fee. The mind going in the direction of more and more is, quite frankly, at least in my personal opinion, simply a definition of GREED. The greed to know his secrets is what drives his [i:7b4ec59221]industry[/i:7b4ec59221]. And his industry, also in my opinion, is an imaginary carrot on an infinitely long stick. Greed permits us to imagine just how marvellously tasty this carrot is, will be, when we reach it; Mahesh's teachings enable further and further imagination to grow along with our greed to know, which Mahesh makes every effort to assure us we will if we just follow his advice.

That advice, of course, is to buy more and more of his techniques. With each new technique, the infinitely long stick with the imaginary yet increasingly tasty carrot grows a little longer, not unlike Pinocchio’s nose.

With this as a basis, a clever person (the Ishaya founder doesn't deny his business experience, he knows all about selling his product) can easily make up his/her own system of enabling the sincere public to subscribe to a new method! This seems to be what the Ishaya founder has done: concoct a plausible story, fill it up with acceptible semi-truths and make it available at a price commanding respect.

It is easy to ignore something for nothing, but having to pay a price for something for nothing seems to be far more enticing, as long as actual work in not involved: just why exchanging money for something for nothing is more appealing than exchanging mental and physical effort for something for nothing is, I guess, a no brainer. For me, it is what separates ethical from unethical cult behaviour, but a little more about this later.

Did you notice that item (2) was all that was discussed? No one seems to be interested in (1). The method Mahesh brought is far more interesting and far more worthy of investigation than the inconsequential and utterly worthless “value” of the mantra. Mahesh himself stated quite categorically at the very beginning of his “mission” that any word would do and then he qualified this by saying that the mantra brought the user the benefit of the gods with which it was associated.

Instantly forgotten was “any word would do” and he was off selling what people wanted to buy. Buy the influence of the gods, for a fee, something for nothing. Another no brainer.

This seems exactly what the Ishaya folk are up to and may well be a model for all unethical cult leaders. Since Mahesh is relatively benign as far as unethical cult leaders are concerned, he is also easier to examine and offers a more solid basis for structuring a measuring device, at least in my opinion, for assessing what other unethical cult leaders are up to.

I have said “unethical” cult to delineate [b:7b4ec59221][i:7b4ec59221]cult[/i:7b4ec59221][/b:7b4ec59221] [i:7b4ec59221]per se[/i:7b4ec59221] from [u:7b4ec59221]ethical [/u:7b4ec59221]cults which have real value and enable the individual to come to greater awareness of growth and self-reliance. “Cult”, to me, has a meaning similar to “social” or “society”. Society is a congregation of individuals who can accomplish more together than separately: societies form for reasons of safety, combined effort for mutual prosperity, combined “wisdom” for self and social preservation, growth, advancement and longevity.

Whether a cult is valuable or not, however, becomes a valuejudgment. For me, the value of Mahesh's teachings with respect to the USE of the mantra or METHOD of meditation far outweighs the overall value of his unethical cult. Some of the Scientology "methods" have, in and of themselves, some value, but their "misuse" makes Scientology itself an unethical cult, again, in my opinion.

To make a really viable “cult”, one needs the semblance of ethical behaviour. I think it was Mark Twain who intimated that if you could master sincerity, you could fool anyone. So, in order to protect ourselves from unethical cults, we need some standard of what real sincerity is all about, what real ethical behaviour is all about, otherwise we will be like the character in one of Pinter’s plays who says that the breakfast cereal is good for you because “it says so right on the box”.

I will continue to collect the “free” Ishaya introductory course material. When I have compiled it, I will try to go through it and point out what seem, at least to me, the dubious selling points for which most of us have had a past acceptance tendency.

Martin

For what it might be worth, Maharishi Sadashiva Isham (MSI) is Vaughan Abrams.

The name is familiar; I might have met him, but I don't know. Anyone out there know Vaughan?

M

Quote
Martin
Maharishi Sadashiva Isham (MSI) is Vaughan Abrams.

That's Vaughan??!!

Omigosh, yes, I knew Vaughn forever ago! I was on friendly terms w him, his first wife and young children. He always was a little odd.

However, I have no current information. Haven't seen Vaughn and his 1st wife (oh jeez, I don't remember her name even.. maybe it was Del?).
I still remember the country house they'd built, our young children playing 25 yrs ago. Can see it in my mind.

So, Vaughn broke off and made his own cult, just like Barbara DeAngelis, the Chicken Soup gang, Johnny Gray, Deepak ("Deep Pockets") etc.

If, in fact, the founder of the Ishayas is Vaughn Abrams - here's the little historical information that I know about him (his face on the Ishaya website looked vaguely familiar)

If my memory serves me right, (I claim protection of perimenopausal memory lapses)
In about 1980 or so, Vaughn and Del Abrams, with I think 2 young children, built a home south of Fairfield Iowa (TM mecca) on Glasgow road. This information should be available in public records of Jefferson County, Iowa.

Vaughn was a devoted follower, he followed the TM Program to the letter. He was quiet and focused, as were/are the truly devout. We had maybe a couple of conversations ever. I spent time on his property, his wife and I had friends in common - the young mama clan. Vaughn did not have the inclination to interact with those who were not strictly following the TM Program (I never followed it closely... thank heavens!)

Del, his then wife, was a sweet devoted mother. It was challenging to impossible for her to live to Vaughn's standards and still care for the family. They divorced when those children were young. I believe Vaughn had a construction company that focused on building and remodeling homes for the TM community. I do not know about remarriage for him, nor her.

As for the claim on the Ishaya's website that Vaughn had 'a personal relationship with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (MMY)'. As far as I know, that personal relationship was no more nor any less than that claimed by any TM Initiator. When one attended TM Teacher Training (TTC), and was made an Initiator, they supposedly had a personal connection to the Master, MMY. Vaughn was not one of the higher-ups in the TM Movement. He was just another TM groupie, nothing extraordinary. He was very focused, semi-withdrawn, because he meditated so much.

Just my memory and opinions.

I knew Barbard deAngeles well. She and I worked together in the tape library in Mallorca. Later, she married the magician, Doug Henning. I attended one of their performances, Barbara sang a nice song (slightly off key).

I remember the first time I encountered (first) Johnny Grey staring down at me from a book shelf in a store. Creepy. Then there was one of Barbara's books, also her staring down at me (why must people place these people above eye-level?).

I ran across an Albert Einstien quote today: The [i:50293f22a1]secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources[/i:50293f22a1]. This probably covers all of our present cast of wanna-be guru-types. It certainly covers Mahesh quite well. He, not unlike Henry Ford, had all sorts of people working for him, then he (Mahesh, Ford, take your pick) pumped out brilliance [of sorts] under his own name only.

I had suggested to Mahesh a format for the SCI course on the basis of the (Harvard?) study system: SQ3R: [i:50293f22a1]survey, question, read-recite-review[/i:50293f22a1]. And it is fairly obvious that the SCI course follows this scheme, but it's only Mahesh who got credit. No little people in his world, eh?

Looks like Vaughn was one of those little people who had a socializing ability to engage people. I have before mentioned F. L. Wright and Charles E. Bedaux. It would be useful if more people saw how these two worked; I think it would be an interesting disclosure of the "secrets" of their creativity: take the hard work of others and take all the credit for what they have done! Just a little of your own spin apparently wipes the slate clean of any further obligation to "the little people".

Today's installment of the Ishaya "free" course hasn't arrived yet. No idea why. But the first two "lessons" are chock-a-block full with just enough promise and just enough feasiblity to be quite compelling. I am not convinced, but I see the trend of thought.

M