I am glad to find this thread here.
I am also an ex student of chrism, I was part of his group for about 3 years and met him in person three times as well. Not much transpired from our first two years of online interactions, other than that he seemed a bit more controlling then I was comfortable with. his writings seemed wonderful though and the group was lovely.
After meeting him the first time at the beginning of 2010 though, I was distinctly aware something was not right. there were a lot of discrepancies, he seemed not to be practicing what he teaches and on top of that I perceived a lot of sexual stuff... he constantly told sex jokes, he wanted me to sleep in his same bed, for "energy purposes", he did not show patience to people, was not in any way grounded or centered.
The thing is, you can basically justify anything at all, until you cant anymore. He is good at twisting things, when you confront him about things, and I did it many times during my first visit, he always turned things around so I got more and more confused.
I could not step away from self doubt and kept thinking maybe it was me, maybe it was me, who was I to know? he always tells you you get what you need. I knew teacher student relationships were confusing, supposed to be that way, so I could not find in me to trust my gut and say OK this is not right!!
after our last meeting in march 2012 however, it became absolutely clear. he is an extremely manipulative person, he is very good at finding your weaknesses and using them to get what he wants. and basically, if you are a woman, he wants you naked. he wants to dominate, to have power and control over you. he calls this surrender, he states that god expresses through him and that he is completely surrendered, and uses this to justify what he does.
during my second stay, things were going on that were much more sexual in nature. I did not know this other then a bit, that people had gotten naked with him, within the context of surrender and release of ego boundaries. I did feel these boundaries strongly in me, and people I trusted seemed to be able to make sense of it all. plus I was here this second time to figure it all out, that's why i went with it mostly I think. I had resisted a lot the first time, but had not been able to release. I think I felt that if I went that path again, I would never make sense of this at all. so I jumped in and tried not to second guess. I needed the actual experience. I went with it. and it was not nice. far from it. actual sex did not happen with me (although I know it has happened with others) but it was mostly because there was a limited amount of days. what did happen was very bad anyway, and not that far from it. it was annihilating, draining, hurtful. there were a lot of tears.
I was put through a week long marathon of daily 3 hour sessions of "the work" that broke me down so completely i did not know who I was anymore. I felt like a turtle completely retreated in it's shell. he could have done anything to me at one point. i was completely shut down. he said this was good :| I feel he uses mind control techniques as well, he definitely did something that looked a lot like it with me. he is good at what he does, he works you up to it gradually, it sounds so good, it makes so much sense and the deeper you go in to it, the harder it is to step back, cause to do it, you will have to deny all that you did, and it hurts. you want it to be true cause if it's is not, then it hurts. I feel I was made to violate myself. I was manipulated and weakened till i voluntarily turned against myself and violated myself. that was the worst of it, as I could not even separate from the horror that was going on. and so day after day, I was brought deeper and deeper in to it.
I now know for a fact that others have gone through my exact steps of the "work", some have even been made to go to more difficult levels still. "normal" practices in that ashram that I discovered later (I was there only a week, and did not share much with others, he discourages that actually) were "hoovering", which was standing over his naked body to absorb the energy. kneeling at his feet, while completely naked, and vocally surrendering everything to him. sleeping with him too. all of this was called "devotion". if you were not able to do these things, or any that he proposed you were resisting, you were not surrendered.
anyhow, I have written out my whole story of my experience with him, it is very intimate and detailed, but I feel the need to give others the option to know what is going on. he is dangerous and powerful. I was naive and got lured in, but I learned my lesson and it is a very valuable one. he will not stop or change ways of his own accord. so here is the link to my story:
if links are not allowed, I'll just post it here, it's very very long though.
below is an extract from it, describing my second visit and the actual practice. the whole writings gives you more of the context of how and why I did what i did.
I KNOW it is for something, I KNOW I was guided to go for a big reason, but I am not sure what it is yet, so i content myself with letting things play out and staying neutral.
Once home, my first talk with chrism goes well (surprisingly given out precedent talks lol!). He seems to “get” where I am at, I tell him about the ireland experience, how i felt the “jump”, the semi-conscious letting go of self and the consequent expansion in to god. I explain to him my feeling that it is not supposed to be easy, that often through the difficulty we are made to get to the next level.
He seems to be on the same page. He urges me to take advantage of my time here, to not let ego get in the way like last time, to not waste my time in ego resistances and to learn surrender. This relates to my path so I feel ok. He urges me to jump off the edge, to see that I can fly, i feel this true, I have done it before, I KNOW it to be true. So I trust.
He urges me to find the most difficult thing for me to do with him, and to then do it. I say that I have trouble recognizing divinity in him, I have trouble accepting that everything he does comes from shakti, as he says.
I am also aware of some students working with nudity, and part of my surrendering is accepting that he does that and that it is god. Directing this. Accepting that he is nasty to other people that I love and that comes from divinity. Accepting that if i dont like it, it is only because I do not understand.
So we go to his trailer in the back yard, and of my own initiative, I sit before him and just gaze in to his eyes, and look for god there. I overcome my resistance, my “ego block” against looking at him in the eyes, and “feel” the divinity in him. My energy reacts well to this. I am immediately infused. My sight opens up and I do see god. He does not fully realize what I am doing, but it is ok. I am half blissed, but also a bit scared as I know what it feels like to let go to that. I know I cannot function in that state. So I hold back a little.
When I tell him, he says we need to get you there, we need to crack the shell before you leave, and I figure he’s right. I figure it cant hurt to try.
So the second day he prompts me to vocalize my surrender to shakti, while still eye-gazing. I do so, and again, through the eye-gazing and the intention, I get strong energy infusion, I almost literally, though it sounds weird, see god in him.
It is a powerful experience, similar though milder to the one I had in ireland. Like a beginning of that.
So now I trust. I consciously categorize all misgivings and doubtful feelings to EGO and feel shakti is guiding me to do this, 100%.
That second day, towards the end, he says shakti is giving to him to do the “zone work” on me. So we do it. After a few robotic orders like the ones I described above, he has me lie on my back and says more or less:
-see yourself at the top of a staircase, looking down
-see the stairs going down down down
-go down the stairs
-you get to a landing, and you see a mirror. Look at yourself in the mirror
-now reach behind the mirror, there is a closet with hangers. Remove one article of clothing at a time, hang it on the hanger and put it in the closet. Do this until you are completely naked.
-when you are naked look at your body and surrender it all to me, one part at a time.
And from here, i remember nothing, until he is “zone working” me back in to the house, in to bed. And now he tells me to continue repeating my complete surrender to master chrism until I fall asleep.
The third morning, I am not in such a good place as the day before, I am so so. I want to go back in to that blissful oneness, and I think if we eye-gaze again I will get there, so I ask if we will have time for another session today, so we go in the afternoon for the third time.
Today I am confused, not sure where I am. He prompts me to surrender not just with my mind but with all my bodies, including, first of all, my physical body. I resist this as I feel strongly against “faking it”…. If I do not feel devotion, how can faking devotion serve me, except by placing expectation of what “should be”? We discuss this and more, and what I recall is he says,
“do the motions until the motions do you”, “fake it till you make it”.
try, you have nothing to lose. And so I accept.
It had worked that first time I thought, so I trusted him and my shakti to know what they were doing. So he has me find the next hard area to face, and I am aware of the nudity that has been going on (although I am aware of no details, only that there has been nudity as a form of devotion and surrender). I am aware that this is something he has people do. And I do not want to do it. So I share that with him.
Of course, this is now my hardest thing. So to continue with the work, I am to overcome this obstacle. I am to undress. I cry, I am distressed, yet I believe in what we are doing, I believe it to be meaningful and I am trusting him, so i eventually do it.
All this time now, from the second day on, more and more there is continual repetition of the vocal aspect of the surrender. A sort of stream of consciousness of all and any area that comes up as to be surrendered. My life, my ego, my intentions, my body, my mind, my emotions, my thoughts, my work, my home, my expectations, what my family is to me, my love, my future, my path, my freedom, my freedom to choose my path, my freedom to choose right and wrong, I surrender the parts of my body one by one, with special accent on my uterus, I surrender my future children, my freedom to decide, my freedom to choose what to say and what to do, my morals, my intentions… and on and on and on. I cry, each single one said with deep intention, given to god. I am crying and crying.
I am the one choosing what to surrender, and I GET the surrender concept, I FEEL it in me. It is to god, and I mean it, I mean every word.
But chrism requires the wording to be
“I surrender my ____ to master chrism, or just “to chrism”.
And I struggle with that, I am surrendering to god THROUGH chrism, not to chrism human. I feel the distinction becoming blurry, I cannot blend the two in to one, the divine and the human anymore. I had been able to do that the first day. Now I find it harder and harder to FEEL god in chrism. I say chrism, but I am thinking god, and they are not one. At all.
So now to the vocal surrender, already so hard, we add the nudity. I overcome that, I undress.
I am now naked.
Now he puts me in to devotional poses, lying on the floor touching his feet. At the beginning he says to cover up with a blanket, he looks away or closes his eyes, as time goes by he stops and is now looking at me directly. Things are worked up to gradually. One big leap, as few small ones, another big one, a few more small ones. There is a logic to the sequence, although it is all blurry in my memory, especially the last days are all one long stretch.
He puts me in the trataka position, kneeling with my butt in the air, and my head at his feet, repeating constantly constantly my surrenders to him.
He has me hug him, with his chest bare and my body bare, he lying on his back. He has me breathe faster and faster like I am sexually aroused and then stop all of a sudden. I am constantly repeating my surrender, and I am exhausted sooo exhausted, crying off and on, protesting and then complying. He is patient throughout but very firm, either I do what comes up or we stop and the work is lost. And I am still believing in the work, although by this time my mind is so empty, only focused on the near present, shutting off all projections all speculations, as aspects of ego. at one time he mentions in passing, that it would be helpful if I got my second chakra going a bit, it would make it easier. I am grossed out and and vehemently, the only way I can do this is if I keep my second chakra WELL out of this!!!!!
Every morning I am waking up feeling more and more crappy, severe headaches, pain in my chest and shoulders, in my legs, a sense of fatigue i cannot shake off till the time comes again that he calls me to the trailer, where with me in a trancelike state of emptiness, we resume the work. He explains the pain and emotional anguish as the ego releasing it’s hold and that this releases toxins from the body.
From the third day onward, my “hardest thing” is to love him, I have never been able to except in the moments of oneness, in ireland and at the very beginning of the eye gazing. And now I cannot, I truly cannot, and in doing my vocalized surrender the hardest area is the love, finding love for him, feeling love. it is simply not there. I tell him all this, so now he has me go through the motions of love, so that then the emotion follow the motions. I am in such a state of emptiness I feel nothing now. he says this is good, it’s a big step.
He has me straddle him, with him sitting cross legged and me sitting facing him, on his lap, nude, with my legs wrapped around him, I am to hug him, to rub his naked back as if I love him, to kiss his shoulder with love, to make myself feel the love, to express my love to him.
once when I was struggling, he said to me, hug me as if it would save your little sister’s life. and I did it, I hugged him and faked the love.
I am crying, filled with horror, protesting that it cant be right, it is such a violation, I feel violated. Yet I am believing in what we are doing, I am trusting the energy that allowed me to see god in him. I am trusting the goodness he professes. yet on a deeper level, one I am trying to shut off and kill, I am utterly completely repulsed by him.
all the issues are promptly explained away, it is always all ego all ego, and it is supposed to be hard. The harder the faster, he is saving me future pain, I will loose my job, my home, my reality unless I comply to this practice to the end, the fruits will come at the end, i am to prepare myself for a spinal sweep over the next few days and this work will save me from the pain, the anguish.
He has me touch myself in all parts and one by one surrender them to master chrism. he wants me to place his hands on my body and give my body to him. this I cannot do. He has me kneel, he has me stand, I am reduced to a robot. Yes, I have free will. At any time I can say enough. But the emotional strain, the exhaustion, my own trust in him, compel me not to stop, not to waste the anguish and torture I have put myself through till now.
I am reduced to an utter state of numbness, I am “in neutral” as I tell him. He touches my breasts to test this, says “do you mind this” I say no. I feel nothing. He touches my pubic area. “do you mind this?” . again no. He touches my vagina, “do you mind this” I say no.
He jokingly says shakti is telling him to do “the pinch” I ask what is it, he says “ it is when I put my thumb in your anus, my index in your vagina and then pinch and give you shaktipat”. I am so very numbed that even though horrified I think I would comply if he gives it as a must. I am empty, separated from myself. I feel as if I am a turtle and right now I am retreated in my shell. You can kick and hurt my shell, but I will not feel it, I will not think, as that hurts, I will not feel as that hurts, I will not judge as I have surrendered that again and again, all of it.
He laughingly says i am resisting shakti on that one and my relief is enormous.
At one point I recall him leaning froward and trying to kiss my mouth, like that, matter of fact… I am horrified, absolutely horrified… he says, why, just a peck, no tongue!! What’s wrong with that?? And I’m just horrified, that is all I can feel… yet now I know that the next hardest thing is to kiss him. I will have to kiss him. My mind is only filled with that, I am naked, exhausted, trapped in this “work” I voluntarily have taken on, with a man I trust to be surrendered to god, to have good intentions. If I let myself go against this, it is my ego speaking. I am “loosing the battle”. I must go through it to the end, I must complete the task, shakti made me trust for a reason.
I know I must kiss him, so I forse myself deeper in to my state of neutral and do it, against all the fibers in my body screaming NO. And so I do it, it’s done. But now he says, but we are trying to produce love, give me a long kiss. And again the struggles, again the tears, again the please no, enough, I am tired, again he tells me that it has to be or we can stop but then the work is lost. We must progress or all is waisted.
So I lean over again and kiss and hold, still struggling to stay in neutral or I will feel the hurt of the violation I myself and doing against my self.
And now that is not enough either, he asks for em to kiss, and to try to feel the love. And that I cannot do.
I keep asking him, where are the boundaries, where are the limits, my hard thing was to see god in you, then to undress, then to hug and then to kiss…. Where are you taking me? You know I will never want to have sex with you, you know that will come up, it is coming up now, are you taking me there? And he says well, I do what shakti tells me, so if she tells me I will consider, I however must protect my work here so I must pay attention before i cross that border.
He has spanked me, and has had me slap him
I ask do you do this with men too, why is it that there are so many women here why are we all women, so so many women, and he says vaguely that there are men too, gives me a couple names, that he does this with men too, that men have bigger egos so it is harder for them to surrender, that women are simply more open to surrender so there are naturally more women coming to him. I just remind of the photos of shaktipat. I feel it no accident who is invited to the ashram. all sorts of people ask to come, but he picks and chooses those who get the special invite.
At one point he has me lie on my back, he asks me to masturbate and I protest, i cry, he says to do it, and that when I come I must be noisy so that he knows and then he will touch me and shaktipat me, I am horrified, too deep in this to turn back without denying the work. Now it hurts too much to recognize the lie of this practice, as I have hurt myself, I have been turned against my core, I have denied my very core truth, I have done to myself what I would never have done. To admit it’s falseness, the falseness of the practice, would be to have to feel the pain and the hurt of having hurt myself.
I try to self-stimulate, but cannot, so after long struggle he says ok I can give you something different, harder but different. But you cannot know what it is till you commit to it, either you self-stimulate, or you do this other thing without knowing what it is till you commit. I am scared, I am terrified he will undress and make me touch him (he has his pants on right now) but eventually i choose the unknown evil over the known one. It turns out it is more of a physical exhaustion practice, he makes me run on the spot, he makes me do push ups and sit ups, and this is welcome, tiredness is welcome as it helps me delete myself, I feel the pain less when I am tired. So I am relieved, almost grateful. And I comply. And now he has me straddle him again and it is horrible, each new thing is like a punch in the gut and each time I must take a deep breath and jump in. I straddle him and I am naked, and he holds my wrists and I go up and down, doing sit-ups from this position. He gives me enough help so that i tire slowly we can do it for a long time. I keep my mind black, if I look at myself the humiliation is too deep, the horror washes over so I push the mind away.
The last day is FINALLY here, I am sooooo exhausted all I want to do is sleep, lie around, I have no energy at all, I feel empty like I have never been in my life, all the beautiful oneness of the first day, the love, the understanding is long gone. All I am trying to do is not feel. I cannot allow myself to feel or I will admit the horror, and I dont want it to be a horror, I want it to be true or it will all have been in vane.
I feel dirty so I shut my mind off.
This last day he has me undress yet again, he says we never backtrack, we always start where we left off so after I undressed the first time, every day I am to undress. And now he asks me what does you shakti tell you to do, and my shakti has always said the same thing, see god in him. See god in all. and so I tell him and he has me lie on top of him, and tell him he is god, that there is no separation from him and god. And I do it and do it, i am so exhausted. I am naked, on top of him. He want me to feel the power now, to be the feminine, the shakti. he asks me to say thanks, to thank him.
I am so tired. It is the last day. He asks me what I want to do, it is in my hands now. I ask if I can dress, so I dress, I go back to the beginning I try to look in to his eyes and see god.
And I do.
And I start seeing god, I start to find Him. And then chrism leans over and kisses me. On the mouth. And it is as if he sucks me out, he pulls me out, he jerks me back and the horror of that this time is too horrible to push away. I try I try to go back to the eye gazing, to fall in to the divine again, and again he leans over and kisses me and now I push him away, I am sobbing and sobbing, horrified. I feel as if he sucked something out from inside me with the kiss. Like the dementor kiss of Harry Potter.
When i calm down we discuss it, I say how horrible it feels to me, so wrong. he says it was an energetic sealing so the work would not be lost.
The next day we are to leave for the seminar in Arizona and we will not be able to do “the work”. So he tells me that once in a while he will look at me and when he does I will have to drop anything I am doing or saying and go in to the surrender mantra, in my head.
He says he will not share our practice with anyone, to preserve it’s sacredness, to keep it pure. He tells me what has been done with me is pretty much unique to me, many people have no issued undressing, so there is no point going there. He has me think what he has done to me he has done to no one else.
I am deeply upset, deeply exhausted. I struggle to not think. I accept the task of the surrender and we go home, I go to bed.
The next morning we leave for arizona, we are three women and chrism. one of the women is the same from my first visit, the one which I had perceived as being bullied by chrism.
I wake up again in this state of physical and emotional pain. In the mornings it is always harder to stay out of “ego”. I am in a very bad place. I feel separate, in pain. We leave early in the morning, and I sleep sleep sleep in the car.
During the trip one of us is severely injured, the woman I knew from my first trip to CA, who was already back then being, to my perception, bullied in the name of teaching. Something snaps in me and the third woman with us because of this injury and how chrism deals with it.