Good Description of How Bait-and-Switch Works
Posted by:
corboy
()
Date: October 18, 2004 07:36AM
Re: Subject? Spirit and truth, of course!
Post by ChuckS on Aug 2nd, 2002, 1:08pm
I remember, when researching the Indian background of this Knowledge, (one term for material taught by Maharaji/Elan Vital) when I came accross the Rhadasoami's website. Maharaji has borrowed heavily from that religion.
[i:c386e3f2b7](This can also be spelled 'Radhasoami'. There is a library of information available here
[vclass.mtsac.edu])[/i:c386e3f2b7]
The first thing the Rhadasoami's did was describe themselvers as a "cult of LOVE". They then went on to describe the "Ocean of love" of which we are all a part.
I loved that! It felt just like the old days when I received Knowledge. So even though I was shocked to discover the details of the religous background of M & K, I felt a kind of reassurance that it did come from some tradition, and that cults in India were not seen as a bad thing, and perhaps that all cults were not bad?
That feeling of reasurance soon disappeared, though. As I read on, further down the text of that long, introductory page, I saw the usual religious stuff; none of this, none of that, you must be vegetarian, no drugs or mind altering substances, blah blah blah.
But I liken my 20 years with K to reading that Rhadasoami page on their website: which sounded so good at first. The ocean of love, the good vibes, *[i:c386e3f2b7]but as you go further along, the attachment to those vibes are used to hitch other things to you.[/i:c386e3f2b7]Now with the Rhadasoami's, I recognized the religious schtick; the way religion often lure you in with the good stuff first, then try to hitch their wagon load of nuts to you, and make you haul it.
I believed that Maharaji was NOT doing that, because we were told often that it was not a religion, and he had seemed to get rid of a lot of the religious trappings. That was my blind spot.
Sure, he did get rid of some of the trappings. The superficial ones. But he kept many others, and disquised or modified others. When compairing M's schtick with the more convetional Indian relgion he' borrowed from, it's interesting to see how he carefully chose what to eliminate.
[i:c386e3f2b7]Many of the Rhadasoami rules and beliefs, were there, I think, to prevent abuse by a Master to his followers. Many of M's ways of making things simpler were really just expedient. He was till teaching a bhakti religion, without some of the convetional protections of the traditions it came from.[/i:c386e3f2b7]
When I realized this, and was willing to look at it honestly, I had to ask some questions. That is when I met The Wall. The wall of secrecy, protecting Maharaji from scrutiny. It caused me to question deeper.
([i:c386e3f2b7]Later someone describes how certain toxic groups and leaders create the sense of threat/malaise, then present themselves as the remedy from the sense of threat/malaise they engender in their listeners:)[/i:c386e3f2b7]
b]PRe: Subject? Spirit and truth, of course!
Post by ChuckS on Aug 12th, 2002, 3:06pm[/b]
(Part 2 continued)
'And what are we getting saved from?
'He (Maharaji) saves us from all the things the guru-worshipping bhakti religion tells us we need saving from.
'And until the premie breaks out of the guru-worshipping bhakti religion box, [i:c386e3f2b7]the frame of reference which dictates what the problems and solutions are[/i:c386e3f2b7], he/she will be terrified to leave. [i:c386e3f2b7]The thought system that creates the problems and offers the solutions, also hold the believer captive. Until those accepted, implanted beliefs are examined rationally and understood, they have the power to hold the believer, and make it impossilbe to see the problem/solution dilemma any other way without experiencing suffering and conflict. [/i:c386e3f2b7]
If you believe the only choices* are Surrender to the Master or become a rotting vegetable, then there are not other choices for you, because you don't believe there are. Your faith, or ability to believe, in invested in the bhakti-guru religion.
([i:c386e3f2b7]Professor Janja Lalitch calls this process by which you're led to believe that these are your only choices--'bounded choice'--you do your thinking in a menu of options that is made steadily more impovrished, boxing you in, closing off more and more options and exits. Lalich's new book 'Bounded Choice' published by University of California Press is well worth reading.)[/i:c386e3f2b7]
'The power of belief is SO strong. Whatever we believe as the truth, becomes true for us. Yet, it is not necessarily true at all, it's just something we chose to believe.* [i:c386e3f2b7]We believe we are being "saved", because we belived in the threat as it was explained to us, accepted the offered solution, and then stopped questioning[/i:c386e3f2b7]. But is are the beliefs real?
[i:c386e3f2b7](*Or rather, something we end up believing, as a result of making choices in a context of bounded choice)[/i:c386e3f2b7]
*Can reality actually be threatened? Does it need to be protected from scrutiny and examination? What kind of truth doesn't hold up to scrutiny?
"Belief is Relief", says Maharaji nowadays. Had he said that back in 1981, I would have said "Sounds like just another religion to me".
[hamzen1.proboards27.com]
Post by ChuckS on Aug 2nd, 2002, 1:08pm
I remember, when researching the Indian background of this Knowledge, (one term for material taught by Maharaji/Elan Vital) when I came accross the Rhadasoami's website. Maharaji has borrowed heavily from that religion.
[i:c386e3f2b7](This can also be spelled 'Radhasoami'. There is a library of information available here
[vclass.mtsac.edu])[/i:c386e3f2b7]
The first thing the Rhadasoami's did was describe themselvers as a "cult of LOVE". They then went on to describe the "Ocean of love" of which we are all a part.
I loved that! It felt just like the old days when I received Knowledge. So even though I was shocked to discover the details of the religous background of M & K, I felt a kind of reassurance that it did come from some tradition, and that cults in India were not seen as a bad thing, and perhaps that all cults were not bad?
That feeling of reasurance soon disappeared, though. As I read on, further down the text of that long, introductory page, I saw the usual religious stuff; none of this, none of that, you must be vegetarian, no drugs or mind altering substances, blah blah blah.
But I liken my 20 years with K to reading that Rhadasoami page on their website: which sounded so good at first. The ocean of love, the good vibes, *[i:c386e3f2b7]but as you go further along, the attachment to those vibes are used to hitch other things to you.[/i:c386e3f2b7]Now with the Rhadasoami's, I recognized the religious schtick; the way religion often lure you in with the good stuff first, then try to hitch their wagon load of nuts to you, and make you haul it.
I believed that Maharaji was NOT doing that, because we were told often that it was not a religion, and he had seemed to get rid of a lot of the religious trappings. That was my blind spot.
Sure, he did get rid of some of the trappings. The superficial ones. But he kept many others, and disquised or modified others. When compairing M's schtick with the more convetional Indian relgion he' borrowed from, it's interesting to see how he carefully chose what to eliminate.
[i:c386e3f2b7]Many of the Rhadasoami rules and beliefs, were there, I think, to prevent abuse by a Master to his followers. Many of M's ways of making things simpler were really just expedient. He was till teaching a bhakti religion, without some of the convetional protections of the traditions it came from.[/i:c386e3f2b7]
When I realized this, and was willing to look at it honestly, I had to ask some questions. That is when I met The Wall. The wall of secrecy, protecting Maharaji from scrutiny. It caused me to question deeper.
([i:c386e3f2b7]Later someone describes how certain toxic groups and leaders create the sense of threat/malaise, then present themselves as the remedy from the sense of threat/malaise they engender in their listeners:)[/i:c386e3f2b7]
b]PRe: Subject? Spirit and truth, of course!
Post by ChuckS on Aug 12th, 2002, 3:06pm[/b]
(Part 2 continued)
'And what are we getting saved from?
'He (Maharaji) saves us from all the things the guru-worshipping bhakti religion tells us we need saving from.
'And until the premie breaks out of the guru-worshipping bhakti religion box, [i:c386e3f2b7]the frame of reference which dictates what the problems and solutions are[/i:c386e3f2b7], he/she will be terrified to leave. [i:c386e3f2b7]The thought system that creates the problems and offers the solutions, also hold the believer captive. Until those accepted, implanted beliefs are examined rationally and understood, they have the power to hold the believer, and make it impossilbe to see the problem/solution dilemma any other way without experiencing suffering and conflict. [/i:c386e3f2b7]
If you believe the only choices* are Surrender to the Master or become a rotting vegetable, then there are not other choices for you, because you don't believe there are. Your faith, or ability to believe, in invested in the bhakti-guru religion.
([i:c386e3f2b7]Professor Janja Lalitch calls this process by which you're led to believe that these are your only choices--'bounded choice'--you do your thinking in a menu of options that is made steadily more impovrished, boxing you in, closing off more and more options and exits. Lalich's new book 'Bounded Choice' published by University of California Press is well worth reading.)[/i:c386e3f2b7]
'The power of belief is SO strong. Whatever we believe as the truth, becomes true for us. Yet, it is not necessarily true at all, it's just something we chose to believe.* [i:c386e3f2b7]We believe we are being "saved", because we belived in the threat as it was explained to us, accepted the offered solution, and then stopped questioning[/i:c386e3f2b7]. But is are the beliefs real?
[i:c386e3f2b7](*Or rather, something we end up believing, as a result of making choices in a context of bounded choice)[/i:c386e3f2b7]
*Can reality actually be threatened? Does it need to be protected from scrutiny and examination? What kind of truth doesn't hold up to scrutiny?
"Belief is Relief", says Maharaji nowadays. Had he said that back in 1981, I would have said "Sounds like just another religion to me".
[hamzen1.proboards27.com]
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