Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 19, 2020 06:53AM

ImagoDei Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
Malcolm Wesley WREST
>
> What topic did you find them under, in 'Reddit',
> may I ask?
>
>
> This is not comprehensive, but using the two
> verses I quoted above, I found 6 users who have
> started threads in the following subreddits:
>
> Christianity, philosophy, conspiracy,
> ifyoulikeblank, socialism, Shit_To_Watch_Online,
> collapse, wokekids, AskAChristian, lostgeneration,
> AwakenedTV, awakened, DebateReligion,
> ShrugLifeSyndicate, DoesAnybodyElse, minimalism,
> spirituality, howtonotgiveafuck, totallynotrobots,
> Soulnexus, RadicalChristianity,
> conspiracy_commons, alltheleft, EndTimes,
> OrthodoxChristianity, Catholicism, religion,
> changemyview, PrayerTeam_amen, Thetruthishere,
> PhilosophyofReligion, CapitalismVSocialism,
> conspiracyundone, 1984isreality, unpopularopinion,
> aliens, Consumerism, agnostic,
> relationship_advice, theology, TheSolutions,
> ELINT, ChristianApologetics, CasualConversation,
> Economics, economy, Foodforthought, conspiracies,
> conspiracytheories, AnythingGoesNews,
> Anticonsumption, Anarchism, altnewz, Coronavirus,
> zen, communism101, DumpsterDiving, unknownvideos,
> todayilearned, CrazyIdeas, NoFap, NoFapChristians,
> DebateAChristian, China, AcademicBiblical,
> EndTimesProphecy,TopConspiracy,
> CommunismWorldwide, propaganda, teenagers,
> facepalm, funny, Futurology, Bible, Freethought.
>
> It appears they each have 2-3 subreddits they
> regularly post in, then they make fringe posts in
> other subreddits. Their posts and comments get
> downvoted pretty often, so a lot of their posts
> get removed due to subreddit rules for having
> negative karma (Reddit "points"). The bulk of
> their activity seems to be on the Christian and
> conspiracy related subs.

They are also using Quorum, for the same purpose. This (below) video is called "A Radical New Way to Share Your Faith!" But what is so "radical" about using the Internet, and some sites on it, for preaching purposes? That's what most churches, and most evangelical Christians are doing nowadays! That's what THE SYSTEM, the CHURCHIES do! This is the age of Covid-19, and everybody and their brother is stepping up their Internet presence. How is using Reddit and Quorum "radical"?

[www.youtube.com]

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 19, 2020 06:55AM

corboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When reaching out to persons involved in COG,
> perhaps another way would be to emphasize who
> stands to gain.
>
> Jesus told the rich young man that to be perfect,
> he should give his possessions *to the poor* then
> follow Jesus. Jesus did not say give to me, he
> said give to the poor.
>
> When COG say theyre real Christians, because they
> gave up their possessions, whom did they give to?
> The poor? Or the COG leadership?
>
> Who stands to gain, financially?


Everybody in the group has to forsake all, except for Dave. How do you think he was able to afford to pay for that "graduation cruise" ten years ago, for all those people? Duh. Dave's got plenty of money at his disposal, even as he lives off of the Australian taxpayer! He is a bald-faced, transparent hypocrite!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2020 07:00AM by The Whirlwind.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Date: August 20, 2020 12:26AM

Thank you for the information. I appreciate it.

I second Corboy's approach!

Acts 2 : 44-5 is the verse McKay quotes to support new 'disciples' turning all they have in the world over to his keeping....as was the practice in the Children of God...

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

....where McKay is patently unfaithful to the scripture is that NOTHING is held 'in common'...the bank accounts will always be in his name or his 'trusted lieutenants' ....there is no 'joint bank account'....

The fact the the current JesusChristian members will claim that they freely 'vote' upon where money is spent....is also a furphy...as the choices provide to them to 'vote' upon are heavily 'moderated'....

(For example...a vote NOT to distribute the material David McKay writes...would simply never be permitted)...

'Freedoms' in the JesusChristians are illusory....you are only 'free' to influence matters that David McKay has decided in advance do not matter to his control over the direction of his cult....(the colour of socks you wear...or the breakfast cereal you might prefer to eat)....

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 20, 2020 05:41AM

You are welcome, for the information. It's my pleasure. I thank you, for the same.

Those passages in Acts 2 and Acts 4 are descriptive in nature, and not prescriptive in nature. It's giving us a historical account of how the early Christians lived, and it's not telling us how we ought to be living today. I recall that one Jesus Christian article, though, called "The Tentmaking Myth", in which Paul's making of tents (for the purpose of earning money) is refuted. So somebody saying "But Paul made tents for money" is something that the Jesus Christians are prepared for, you see.

[jesuschristians.com]

Here is the true story of what happened: Paul arrived in Corinth on his own. (Acts 18:1) He usually travelled with at least one other Christian (as Jesus commanded--Luke 10:1), but this time he was on his own. He met some prospective converts (Acts 18:2) who offered him a job in their tent company, and he accepted. (v. 3) He still preached on weekends (v. 4), but the rest of the time he apparently witnessed 'on the job' to Aquila and Priscilla. When Silas and Timothy arrived some time later, Paul was "pricked in his conscience" and "gave his whole time to preaching the message" (TEV, v. 5) Paul later writes to the church at Corinth (with whom he had more problems than any other church he started) and says, "The only way I treated you differently from any other church was that I didn't rely on you to support me. Forgive me this wrong." (2 Corinthians 12:13)

Personally, I always interpreted the "forgive me this wrong" part as Paul using sarcasm, hyperbole, and not as him seriously asking for forgiveness. It's as if he was saying "I'm so sorry about not depending on you like a bum, guys" as he tolled his eyes.

That's the problem with the lie that one can live without working for money. What always ends up happening to the person who believes this lie, is that he or she invariably winds up depending on somebody else, who DOES work for money. For example: Dave does not work for money in a system job, but he depends on the Australian taxpayer to provide him with money, shelter, etc.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2020 05:49AM by The Whirlwind.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 20, 2020 09:47AM

CORRECTION (I am a stickler about proper editing): Personally, I always interpreted the "forgive me this wrong" part as Paul using sarcasm, hyperbole, and not as him seriously asking for forgiveness. It's as if he was saying "I'm so sorry about not depending on you like a bum, guys" as he ROLLED his eyes. Paul was being sarcastic, when he wrote that. Paul's letters are replete with this kind of sarcastic hyperbole.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2020 09:49AM by The Whirlwind.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Date: August 20, 2020 07:19PM

It would be worthwhile having a 'normal' perspective on Christianity created somewhere (outside the Cult Education Institute..that is not the role of this board) that was accessible to readers of 'Reddit' and 'Quorum' as a resource....

David McKay fills 'vacuums'....the 'Catholic Workers' and the 'Quakers' are both institutions that the Jesus Christians (when they once the 'Christians') associated with.... David generally isolates his minions where possible to avoid the threat of them opting for a 'faith' he does not direct....

...there were contacts with these organizations once....along with BUGA-UP in Sydney... made life in the Christians far more tolerable as 'dissent' had to be tolerated to a degree.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 20, 2020 10:19PM

Malcolm Wesley WREST Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would be worthwhile having a 'normal'
> perspective on Christianity created somewhere
> (outside the Cult Education Institute..that is not
> the role of this board) that was accessible to
> readers of 'Reddit' and 'Quorum' as a resource....

The Interactive Bible home page is one such resource, and it's great. There are all kinds of Bible studies there that support mainstream, non-extremist Christianity. The False Doctrines section of that website is noteworthy as well.

[bible.ca]

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2020 10:19PM by The Whirlwind.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: ImagoDei ()
Date: August 21, 2020 07:39PM

I found this recent post on /r/GetDisciplined that really troubles me.

Quote
User on Reddit
Warning: sounds religious and extreme but it works

I was shocked when I read what Jesus is quoted as having said in the bible, "if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell". I know you might not be a Christian but that is a really hardcore thing to do in order to stop yourself from making a mistake. I then thought about it more and realized though that that is what it takes if you want to change. I think we all know as well as Jesus that cutting off an arm isn't going to solve the issue or change us but if a person is willing to go as far as cutting their hand off before making the same mistake then they will be able to stop themselves from making the same mistake again.

The problem I think a lot of us run into is that when we are trying to improve we think we are giving it our all but I'd be willing to bet that isn't the case. The way you can find out if you're really dedicated to change is this.

Warning: this is the extreme part:

Make a commitment to yourself that the next time you fail at doing what you need to do to change you'll cut your hand (not off but just cut on the inside of the hand) with a knife. (a small pocket knife in which will heal quickly but a knife none the less.) You then carry around that pocket knife for the whole day in your pocket to remind you of that commitment you made constantly and whenever it comes time to do what you need to do then I 100% bet you are gonna do it. (The key is you have to actually be committed in your mind that you will cut your hand or this won't work.)

I know it sounds extreme but I've done this before and it sure as hell cause me to fix my issue at the time. It's something Jesus taught (links to AVID "The Most Shocking Teaching of Jesus video, timestamp 7:15"

and even if you're not religious you gotta admit he accomplished a lot of stuff in his life. This isn't for the squeamish but doing this will get you to be honest with yourself about what you want to do with your life.

I hope this helps.

So Jesus Christians are encouraged to self-harm in an attempt to resist the temptation of sin. Truly disturbing.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 21, 2020 10:19PM

The Jesus Christians had an Australian Business Number: 78 622 540 509.

This was a relatively new number for business dealings with the Australian Tax Office and with government agencies at all levels.

An ABN is needed to register for GST and other elements of the new tax system.

The Jesus Christians ABN was registered on the 8 September 2000 and was cancelled from 31 Aug 2016.

I wonder if the group still has an ABN, and if so what it is now? I cannot find anything new in that respect.

[abr.business.gov.au]

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2020 10:19PM by The Whirlwind.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "cult", Dave McKay, the "Truth Believers"
Posted by: The Whirlwind ()
Date: August 21, 2020 10:22PM

ImagoDei Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I found this recent post on /r/GetDisciplined that
> really troubles me.
>
>
Quote
User on Reddit
> Warning: sounds religious and extreme but it
> works
>
> I was shocked when I read what Jesus is quoted as
> having said in the bible, "if your right hand
> causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it
> away. It is better for you to lose one part of
> your body than for your whole body to go into
> hell". I know you might not be a Christian but
> that is a really hardcore thing to do in order to
> stop yourself from making a mistake. I then
> thought about it more and realized though that
> that is what it takes if you want to change. I
> think we all know as well as Jesus that cutting
> off an arm isn't going to solve the issue or
> change us but if a person is willing to go as far
> as cutting their hand off before making the same
> mistake then they will be able to stop themselves
> from making the same mistake again.
>
> The problem I think a lot of us run into is that
> when we are trying to improve we think we are
> giving it our all but I'd be willing to bet that
> isn't the case. The way you can find out if you're
> really dedicated to change is this.
>
> Warning: this is the extreme part:
>
> Make a commitment to yourself that the next time
> you fail at doing what you need to do to change
> you'll cut your hand (not off but just cut on the
> inside of the hand) with a knife. (a small pocket
> knife in which will heal quickly but a knife none
> the less.) You then carry around that pocket knife
> for the whole day in your pocket to remind you of
> that commitment you made constantly and whenever
> it comes time to do what you need to do then I
> 100% bet you are gonna do it. (The key is you have
> to actually be committed in your mind that you
> will cut your hand or this won't work.)
>
> I know it sounds extreme but I've done this before
> and it sure as hell cause me to fix my issue at
> the time. It's something Jesus taught (links to
> AVID "The Most Shocking Teaching of Jesus video,
> timestamp 7:15"
>
> and even if you're not religious you gotta admit
> he accomplished a lot of stuff in his life. This
> isn't for the squeamish but doing this will get
> you to be honest with yourself about what you want
> to do with your life.
>
> I hope this helps.
>

See what I mean?

Once again: it seems to me that when Dave writes things like this, he is gradually conditioning his people to be able to cheerfully accept a "final exit" for himself and the group. I just have this gut-level feeling, an intuition that this group will meet with a Heaven's Gate-ish tragic end.

“Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said; Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now thy loins like a man: for I will demand of thee and answer thou me.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2020 10:23PM by The Whirlwind.

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