Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: July 25, 2009 11:23PM


About a week ago, someone hacked into our forum and planted a virus. It's happened in the past, and it's always hard to nail down where these things come from. Being paranoid, of course, we thought that it could have been coming from someone with a personal axe to grind. But who knows?

About the same time, it seems that yet another revised version of Nick's cloned web sit went up on the Internet. The previous page (and the post at the top of this page) talks about Kate's many denials that she had anything to do with the clones that Nick has been setting up. It's interesting, however, that this one opens to something called "Kate's Page".

It sounds like Ash must be misbehaving again, and Kate and Nick think it's time to haul out their "weapon". Or is it just something that Nick is doing to help out the folk on his website, since it was announced that JCs will no longer be visiting there? Shame on you, Nick, stooping to such tactics to get a mention over here!


You’re way off your target. You don’t even know enough about the Crofts or the other posters here to rage at them to these extremes. The reason why you don’t has a lot to do with the fact that you spend more time spinning self aggrandizing threads (all of which have steadily gone downhill), than acquiring any understanding from those who’ve been through and left your cult, as well as the family members of such persons.

Everyone deserves to be able to vent their anger from time to time, yes. You just don’t seem interested in anything other than escalating your own tantrums to a dwindling audience.

So try and learn something from others who understand your anger. Shut the hell up on an at least occasional basis and allow yourself the time to think between ranting posts. If you allow yourself this you might not come off like such an ignorant, self-involved, hyper-defensive prick.

Another bit of good etiquette for you to experiment with would be to shorten your posts and not ramble on and on about every little thought and conspiracy theory that comes to you. And please realize you do not have to have the last and final word on every topic.

If you and cadre want to be heard respectfully you might want to start by extending that to others.

You and your paranoid sing songs aren’t really encouraging an audience to view your perspective as credible.


Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: July 26, 2009 03:54AM

Dear Zeusor,

Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention.....and looking in particular at the last paragraph you quote,

It sounds like Ash must be misbehaving again, and Kate and Nick think it's time to haul out their "weapon". Or is it just something that Nick is doing to help out the folk on his website, since it was announced that JCs will no longer be visiting there? Shame on you, Nick, stooping to such tactics to get a mention over here!

Is Davids' lame-brained attempt at "blaming" (further evidence of his descent into lunacy if more were needed!), trying to imply that Nick and Kate routinely "threaten" Ash with attacks on the JC web-site, if he considers rejoining? While what David says is clearly just so much vile puke, underneath it we may be able to read some of the "assumptions" driving David....

Do you think that David here has now officially "dumped" Ash and is subconsciously advising the other JC's of his decision?....Ash is "weakly" allowing himself to be "adversely" influenced by his parents is, naturally enough, Davids' futile attempt at a manipulative falsehood?...Ash has now been resigned to the ranks of the xJC's?

Pitifully dutiful Zoe (aka Lisa Simpson) could of course easily verify when the system was hacked into and where the attack originated from...I note that David (obviously deliberately) declines to research any hard evidence before shallowly nominating Nick as the source of all his problems....(all the better not to know really from David's would only hamper him "use" the situation...)

Shame on you, David, stooping to such bullshit to shore up your dwindling credibility over there!

Ohh....(breaks down into tears)...but (whimper)...

but PLEASE, ...please sir,..don't......just don't I say! know, blame poor old Nick and Kate any further....

I..I...can't (sniff)..I can't see them suffer like this any more like this....

I...I'll...(straightening my back and standing a little more erect).....okay I'll own up to what I've done.....

I'll admit that there is an absolutely horrendous virus on the JC site, which I in some way share the blame in setting loose....

.....this is a destructive program that regularly lets loose a flood of incoherent drivel of meaningless and unconnected thoughts, that it has arbitrarily collected from other postings on sites across the web and that are then meaningless twisted into just so much idiotic "noise" that it then releases back at random back onto the JC site.....

...years in the making, I have coined a name for this pernicious virus...I call it DAVID MCKAY

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: July 26, 2009 04:40AM

You're welcome Mal.

As I have always said, I frankly feel sheer contempt and actual hatred when it comes to David McKay. In a way, I am ashamed to admit this, because I do not normally HATE anybody, but he has rubbed me very much in a bad way. I tried, I really did, to look for anything good or sympathetic in David so that I would not feel so badly towards him.

You know what? I honestly cannot think of any positive quality in that snake.

Anything that MIGHT be a positive attribute, like his ability to be witty, is spoiled because his wit is always poison sarcasm; it's cruelty, and therfore not a good trait.

Sometimes he is actually funny- but it's always humor at someone else's expense, cutting and unkind.

He is indeed smart, but that's not a positive quality in David's instance, as he has used his ability to write well to beat down and bully others, and to try to make them feel stupid and inferior, so again his "brain" doesn't count as a good quality since it's always used to promote evil.

If one says that he is creative, that too is tainted, because he uses his creativity to deceive and lie and slander and to make up wild stories and suck his disciples further into his abyss.

Even the kidney thing is all a scam, a con for media attention and now he's not as interested in helping people since the media has faded off so he's busy bashing the poor family of Joe.

So I dare you or anyone to tell me something good about the man, that is not used for evil or tainted purposes.

I wish I could see something human in him as it doesn't feel normal to me, for me, to dislike someone as much as I do David McKay.

He just is a selfish wicked nasty little slimeball, and I feel not one drop of sympathy for him, just zero. He is a worthless, painful wart on the rectum of the world, and the world will be a better place once he is out of it.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: July 26, 2009 04:42AM

On a happier note:


Kate Wolf
Give Yourself To Love

Kind friends all gathered 'round, there's something I would say:
That what brings us together here has blessed us all today.
Love has made a circle that holds us all inside;
Where strangers are as family, loneliness can't hide.

You must give yourself to love if love is what you're after;
Open up your hearts to the tears and laughter,
And give yourself to love, give yourself to love.

I've walked these mountains in the rain and learned to love the wind;
I've been up before the sunrise to watch the day begin.
I always knew I'd find you, though I never did know how;
Like sunshine on a cloudy day, you stand before me now.

So give yourself to love if love is what you're after;
Open up your hearts to the tears and laughter,
And give yourself to love, give yourself to love.

Love is born in fire; it's planted like a seed.
Love can't give you everything, but it gives you what you need.
And love comes when you're ready, love comes when you're afraid;
It'll be your greatest teacher, the best friend you have made.

So give yourself to if love is what you're after;
Open up your hearts to the tears and laughter,
And give yourself to love, give yourself to love.

Give yourself to love, if love is what you're after;
Open up your hearts to the tears and laughter,
And give yourself to love, give yourself to love.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: July 26, 2009 06:00AM

Hello to all Friends on this site...
I have been busy with uplifting pursuits and not made time to involve myself with anything MCKay. However, I have just found out that the Johnson family is still entangled in the crazy lawsuit and that Mckay/Reinhard are still holding on like leeches in the hope of making a financial killing. Shame on both of you...
Sheila, please have your attorney contact me on Monday. I'll do anything I can to support you and relate to the jury what this cult is like from a mother's point of view.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: paul_connor ()
Date: July 26, 2009 09:03AM

Very well said zeus. I also thought if DJ could ever PAUSE and think before he spews his venom on innocent people, he would save himself from eating the glutton’s amounts of crow he keeps feeding himself. I'd like to why each time McKay's latest conspiracy theory crumbles, WHY WHY WHY he doesn't ever LEARN and WHY WHY WHY next time some little life glitch happens-David doesn't PAUSE-THINK BACK-REMEMBER LAST WEEKS?LAST MONTHS PARANOID FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND JUST WAIT TO SEE IF THERE IS SOME NATURAL EXPLANTION FOR THE GLITCH but no David points his fingers, shouts so loud even Satan hides, rants, discerns, uses his magic powers to come up with some bizarre theory that explains absolutely nothing but he will just spew it anyway. And he never corrects or retracts anything when he is quickly proven to have been wrong and lying. He'll just come up with some new wild idea and print that instead.

SHORT MEMORIES ABOUND AT THE JC SITE. People who are friendly with the J.C.’s need to remember how quickly the J.C.’s turn and make you the enemy. Then where are all your fine Jesus like friends? The very friendly J.C.’s you now defending AGAIN not so long ago called you every single name they subscribe to all their enemies.

Another example is the faithful few who follow David and then also the hangers on who semi follow<> When David or another member has some issue with someone, they seem to try to draw others into sadisticly jumping on and isolating their victim. All you have to do is look at their special forum section called Resolving Differences which is just the spot where they go to verbally whip people. How many people have been their victims? Victims of lunatic conjecture. False accusations of mental disorders, lying, deception, fraud, fake I.D.'s and it just goes on and on. They rumormonger behind their victims back and then pounce using all the info the person has posted about themselves whether its health issues, spiritual problems, marriage tiffs, child issues- The J.C.’s stop at nothing and nothing is too low to use to “whip” the person.

CASE IN POINT IS KIRSTIE-she has been on the receiving end of horrible abuse from David and the J.C’s on several occasions. Yet she gets back into the fold, after loudly swearing she is finished with them forever and thankful to be free of them. Then she falls back in with the J.C.’s and again everyone else is the bad guy, picking on the sweet innocent J.C.s. as she did last week, was one of the worst, most unkind abuser to a woman on the J.C. forum. The (a senior person-aged 65 ishly) woman’s great sin was to be posting requesting the J.C.’s to leave alone one of her family members who they had been communicating with and inviting to a trial week. I was also invited to their trial week in the US and I had been in communication with a "weighty" J.C. so I do know they quickly invite people to “sign on”.Anyway this old lady was posting as she had apparently found the J.C. books and CD’s etc in their home and didn’t like what she saw. I believe she had also done some research and been in touch with EX’s and some cult busters. So she posted something telling them to stay away from the young person in her family. The J.C.’s reacted in their typical fashion by attacking this woman and her family, making threats to call people who live near the family and spew lies. David went so far as to say this woman might be holding her young family member as a hostage tied up in the cellar. POSSIBLE MURDER WAS MENTIONED BY DAVID-though of course he is such a coward he phrases his accusations in questions. Plus for some reason the J.C's also attacked the character of the younger family member and divulged all his/her personal data on their forum. The young person then appears on the forum begging for the abuse to stop, they have a dying family member, stress everywhere and she/he wants the personal info removed. NO WAY. NO MERCY. THEY STRIKE AND ABUSE THEIR POTENTIAL SUGGESTING SHE IS SICK IN THE HEAD AND A DOUBLE PERSONALITY TELLING HER OFF FOR HER MAKING UP WITH HER MOTHER AND NOT DEFENDING THEM. WHAT? THEY WANT TO BREED DISENTION WITHIN THE FAMILY!!! PAST REPEATS.PATHETICALLY KIRSTIE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO JOIN IN WITH DAVIDS NONSENSE OF ABUSING SOMEONE IN PUBLIC, ENCOUAGING OTHERS TO JOIN IN AND HER VERY COMPLAINT OF HER “FRIENDS” FALLING SILENT WERE THE VERY THING WE ALL SAW THEIR LATEST VICTIM COMPLAINING OF. Again Kirstie well trained by the master abuser embedded her slurs carefully in questions “I’M JUST SAYING THIS BECAUSE I LOVE JESUS AND I WANT TO HELP OTHERS” but her topic she started was entitled-
“Mental Illness and Beau (the old ladies name)”

Kirstie also followed David around, from post to post loving the encouragement she was receiving for being on board with his nonsense accusations and attacks. She was so clearly attacking the person with the same accusations she had leveled against her some time ago.

Here are a few of Kirsties posts from the EX forum when SHE was under attack by the J.C. wolves.
Post made by Kirstie

Thank you, Blackhat, TonyB, Gertrude and Apostate. It has been a long slog for me to get where i am now, i thought i had finished with them months ago, im not sure what drew me back in to wanting peace with them. But now thier true colours are shown, and they are not pretty. I thank God that i am free of thier control, and glad i didnt get in further with thier games.

They accuse me of lying when they are the ones doing the lying, like the fact that Dave posed as "somebody", he also did it a few months ago when he posed as "Bettina" and he got me to say lots of things and then used that information against me. I think that is what happened about this whole Berni thing. If anyone on here does know who Berni is what she does please do tell me, cause i am still very confused about that. I never did try to email anyone called Berni, not even someone i thought was her, but it doesnt really matter anyway.

I am done with the Jesus Christains forever, Private Eyes, if you are reading this, sorry i didnt take your advice in the first place, i should not have gone back looking for peace, it only bought pain.

Oh what a relief to have them out of my life for good, I have learnt my lesson though, for good this time.

Love Kirstie


Another explaination of why the Jesus Christians believe i am lying could be what Franky and I were talking about the other day, we were discussing what has happened with the whole Berni thing. We think maybe what could have happened is that when Franky advertised her password on the JC forum, someone took it and used it to access her emails on the RR forum. There could have been talk a while ago that i was going to email Berni, so the JC's took that as gospel and said that i did email her. Either way Franky thinks the JC's have accessed her account.... so that is why they wont prove where thier information comes from, because it would show who the devious people are here...

Not to mention what happened when Dave used Bettina's email to get to me....

Who is lying and decieving really??



Hi, yes i am Kirstie. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Kevin it is nice to see you on this foum, i have heard a lot about you.

Thank you for your support.

I actually really like some of the Jesus Christians and i really thought we were making head way. Sue and Roland came over for dinner and we had such a great evening. I wanted to be friends with them as they are nice people. Having said that for people that i considered my friends they have not shown me much friendship. I have been verbally attack by Fran and Casey and where is Sue with her comments? You see for me when a friend is being attacked, (which of course is what happened with Franky) then as a friend i think a person should speak up against injustice.

It is 4 months ago! The same thing happened then, when i left the JC's (association with them) i was attacked but the people that i had got to know said nothing in my defense, which is why i originally went to the RR forum. I was left to freeze and no-one was there to wrap me up.

The reason i stuck up for Franky in the first place is because i believe her to be a warm, caring and loving person. So she has made mistakes, mistakes that i think she would probably like to be sorted out. But she went to the forum asking for forgiveness but they didnt want to know. I had to say something i could not sit back and let her be riped apart, she has been through enough with the Jesus Christians. It is time they looked at thier part in all of this and tried to do something about it rather than let it get totally out of hand... but of course if they did that then they would have to apologise for the things of the past, and that could not possibly happen, so instead they will continue to attack and cause pain.



I wanted to be friends with you, i wanted honesty and love, but it looks like that is never going to happen. All you want is arguments and accusations.

And for everyone else... i am not lying i really dont remember ever emailing anyone i thought was Berni, i have gone through my emails and there is not one there to Berni or someone who may have been pretending to be Berni. Obviously people are working together here to catch me out? or something like that but i am being honest... but that obviousy does not matter to them!

Goodbye forever, have nice lives..... decieving people!


We question Kirstie about where she really stands. Kirstie has a track record that not only makes it difficult for the Jesus Christians to trust her, it must be hard for the enemies of the Jesus Christians to trust her as well, and she has been much more loyal to them than she has been to us.

This is Sherry trying to make sure Kirstie feels cut off on all sides. Sherry attempts to sow seeds of distrust against Kirstie and attacks her loyalty so I do understand why now Kirstie is desperate not to be seen as disloyal and why she feels she has to “jump” others to prove herself loyal to the cult. It’s sad. The same thing Kirstie had hoped for-mercy and empathy was what she would not give to another.

I also thought this post made by BLACKHAT was so accurate
“Somebody set the tone for the treatment of Kirstie. Somebody put down the blood-trail for the wolves to follow. Somebody harbours revenge and cannot forgive. Somebody has no empathy.”

Blackhat clearly was pointing at David. Yet we see now Kirstie HAS gone back to the J.C.’s and thinks David likes and trusts her. Can she really believe he forgives? Has he shown that to be in his past? I wonder what would happen if Kirstie disagreed with David again? She’d be right back getting called mentally disturbed, a liar and a bad person-same place she was and same place she saw Beau getting put and rather than either remain silent, Kirstie opted to jump in with David and make mad speculations about the person all over the J.C. forum.

Kirstie learned well from the J.C.’s-it’s obvious the more time you spend around their forum the more you adopt David’s cowardly way of framing his accusations as questions and also refusing to be accountable when proven wrong.

Right now that master of lies DJ is saying on the J.C site:

Of course, while we have the likes of Liesel and Brian and Malcolm calling for me and other JCs to be killed, and medals to be awarded to anyone who does it, Sheila and Jared will continue to believe that what they did was brave and honourable.

There is much more that we would like to say, but it has to wait for a couple more weeks. In the meantime, Liesel, Brian, and Malcolm continue to spew their hate for me and their support for Sheila, the Johnsons' continue to repeat Craig's mantra about us being killers for Christ, and Kevin continues to maintain that Sheila and company did nothing worse to Reinhard than anything that we have done to one another. And they all congregate on the X site, where each one sings a different part in the choir, but it all harmonises in one word: hate (with "murder" echoing somewhere in the background, just quietly enough that no one quite knows which singers are saying it).


Posts: 2933
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:02 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

What an absolute delusional fool! Get this old dude a good physiatrist.


Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: July 26, 2009 12:53PM

Dear Paul,

My God!! That's a pretty strong endorsement for Berni, if David can STILL be intimidated and threatened by her, (hence the ongoing need to attempt to blacken her name and besmirch her reputation as the "bogeyman" Sisi dares to conjure up)....YEARS after she successfully freed here son from his grasp...quite a woman I'd say!!

I am beginning to have increasingly little time for Kirsty. While I acknowledge that Franky has spoken positively in regard to her, I would otherwise wish her actual membership in the JC's for a few years.....a little episode that would cost her everything she owns, any career she currently has, all the social company she now keeps...and likely leave her damaged for years to come, once she was eventually thrown out.....a little keepsake for her penchant for tattle tale participation...

......certainly Cherry and Kirstie (on current performance) would appear to deserve each other....

...thank you for your research here Paul......the individual members of the JesusChristians are really quite isolated...they (initially) believe that they are "obeying God" when ignore criticisms of David or of their matter how accurate those "criticisms" may be....the hatred they vent towards those who question them is a result of the subconscious effort it requires them to be forever living out the lies they are constantly defending....

I agree with you Zeusor, although there once was the semblance of a caring human being here.....there is a certain tragedy in what has happened to him (..even if its what he has MADE happen to himself....)....

In relation to my purported "calls to kill David", and I quote "Of course, while we have the likes of Liesel and Brian and Malcolm calling for me and other JCs to be killed, and medals to be awarded to anyone who does it, Sheila and Jared will continue to believe that what they did was brave and honourable."

(Let me again repeat that I believe that David should serve gaol time, however I'd be happy to see him alternately, forcibly incarcerated in an Institution, where some semblance of treatment might be attempted on him!)

....I usually simply ridicule David self-serving cant as I don't believe it even merits the efforts in seriously refuting something so patently ridiculous.....He wants to goad a response out of me that he would then use to "prove" the malicious misrepresentation he is engaging in.....Oh God!....He is SO pathetically transparent!!

I do see though that the JesusChristians have released some promotional images of the cruise that they have in mind to invite the unsuspecting on, (although they may need to delete some footage as they appear to have inadvertently, mistakenly revealed the exact key to putting an end to the rule of that heartless wraith that the merciless "Captain of the ship" has become)...while David may imagine that he can put paid to however dares cross swords with him, I think he may eventually find that only the simpering crew of cut-throats (to be), that he has trapped aboard, refuse to see through him....

....even disregarding the somewhat unfortunately, inclement weather, I must say that it is not really a vessel I'd be keen to board, however now that I know what's inside the actual chest of the man, perhaps I could briefly swing over that way and cut me a deal,......[]

...perhaps I might then just somehow manage to forestall David's judgement of me!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2009 12:57PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: matilda ()
Date: July 26, 2009 08:15PM

[] Time 1.28

Dave said’ They don’t even know what a cult is, nobody does. It’s just used to put down a group you don’t like. ‘
This is untrue. The word ‘cult’ is not necessarily negative, some groups are benign and some are not but the JC’s are extreme IMO and cause unnecessary pain and suffering to most who become members and associates.

[] Time 1.28

Thos post is based on the BITE model put forward by Steve Hassan from the freedomofmind website here

A destructive cult is one that uses destructive mind control. According to Steve Hassan , destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym BITE:
Behaviour Control
Information control
Thought control
Emotional control

It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present.
I. Behavior Control
1. Regulation of individual's physical reality
a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
d. How much sleep the person is able to have
e. Financial dependence
f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations

Dave regulates who members live with. Members are isolated from society and generally from their former friends, families and anyone else who disagrees with the JC’s.
They are in effect isolated from outsiders and rarely encounter outsiders without their buddy or partner to keep them in check
They are to provision food mainly by bin raiding
All proceeds from litnessing go to the group. The individual does not make financial decision alone and is dependent on the group.
The little time that is spent on leisure is planned, heavily directed and spent with the group. There is therefore very little real ‘ free’ time in this group.

2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals

Intensive group sessions involving indoctrination by leaders and intense grievance sessions

3. Need to ask permission for major decisions

Members cannot suddenly decide to have a day off or to do anything autonomous. They need to seek counsel and permission. In theory decisions are made collectively but in practise Dave manipulates many decisions.

4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors
Dave learned this from the COG. Members write regular reports on their thoughts, feelings and activities. They also assess their own commitment in terms of a percentage to the Virgin army and 144k vision.
5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).
Members are rewarded for reaching litnessing targets through treats ( desert, a visit to a theme park etc) and punished by going without meals or missing a leisure activity. Punishment could be more extreme; members have reported being thrown out of the community at a weak point and their passport being withheld.
6. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails
Individuality is judged to be ‘out of the spirit’ and a grievance or worse may result.
7. Rigid rules and regulations
Rigid rules and routines are encouraged.
8. Need for obedience and dependency
Disobedience is judged to be ‘out of the spirit’ and subject to severe correction.

II. Information Control
1. Use of deception
a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable or unacceptable
Dave discourages his members from reading here by labelling posters negatively, misidentifying them and promoting an irrational fear of them. He has got it wrong every time but it does not stop his feeble attempts
c. Outright lying

Dave does all of the above and encourages his group to do likewise.

2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged
a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don't have time to think
The JC’s do restrict information mainly through keeping recruits so busy and dependant that they cannot cope. They do not encourage members to meet with former members and will often interpret the news/ information for them.
3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what
Several examples of all of these in the JC’s
Information has been withheld from members, including mail/ messages from families

4. Spying on other members is encouraged
a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control

Telling tales encouraged challenging those who are ‘out of the spirit;. Two by two partnerships.

b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership
Yes, through oral and written reports and grilling sessions.
5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda
Dave generates a mass of literature, and writes reams of propaganda on their website, forum and through booklets and articles.
Dave loves to confuse and confound in order to control.

a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources
Numerous examples of this. Literature is usually sold on the street when the JC’s request a monetary contribution for printing. Sometimes lit is given away but this is not the norm.
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution
Numerous examples of this

III. Thought Control
1. Need to internalize the group's doctrine as "Truth"
a. Map = Reality
b. Black and White thinking With us or against us
c. Good vs. evil
d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside)

Polarised thinking.Fear vs Faith

2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".Parts of the JC vocab designed to encourage black and white thinking and to restrict thought eg Systemites, rebels, churchies, time bandits, pigs,

3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.
4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts
5. Critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy discouraged Yes
6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful
JC creed considered superior.Discourage emotional responses, emotional expression and emotional ties.

2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader's or the group's.
Individual often considered ‘out of the spirit’

3. Excessive use of guilt
a. Identity guilt
1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
2. Your family
3. Your past
4. Your affiliations
5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions
Recruits accused of allowing themselves to be held back by their past, associates, family or friends. This may be done consciously or subconsciously. Recruits often work very hard in an effort to prove they have ‘forsaken all’
Joseph is currently under pressure to prove that he has really forsaken his family ties , Dave has hinted that Joseph is too 'intelligent' to engage with his family and that he would be 'stupid' to do so. Ex JC's have been through similar experiences but that did not stop Dave turning on them later

b. Social guilt
c. Historical guilt
4. Excessive use of fear
a. Fear of thinking independently
b. Fear of the "outside" world
c. Fear of enemies
d. Fear of losing one's "salvation"
e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
f. Fear of disapproval

The JC system currently encourages excessive and irrational fear of outsiders, to the point where they are labelled negatively as’ rebels’, ‘ reprobates’, apostates, ‘witches’ etc

5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.
Dave pushes the buttons expertly Dave is now aware that community members can read this site and the XJCS site so he has started a major offensive to categorise both of these sites as ' Hate' sites. In an attempt to prove that the group is being #persecuted' he has invented personalities and posters and tried to muddy the waters with regard to both sites.
6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins". Yes
7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader's authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.
a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "; etc.
c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group's perspective, people who leave are: "weak;" "undisciplined;" "unspiritual;" "worldly;" "brainwashed by family, counselors;" seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.
Recruits are warned that they will become bitter, rebellious and will be in spiritual or physical danger if they leave the group.
They shun the XJCS completely unless they are considered' friendlies' and can assist or support the JC's in some way. The COG had their Kings, queens and the JC's have the same system.
The truth is that as long as they remain IN the group, they are endangering themselves physically, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually.
Exit brings freedom but it is actually easier to remain subservient and a follower than to walk away and make your own choices in life.

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2009 08:43PM by matilda.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: free of DM ()
Date: July 26, 2009 11:47PM

quotin Dave de mindy bendah!!!

There is much more that we would like to say, but it has to wait for a couple more weeks. In the meantime, Liesel, Brian, and Malcolm continue to spew their hate for me and their support for Sheila, the Johnsons' continue to repeat Craig's mantra about us being killers for Christ, and Kevin continues to maintain that Sheila and company did nothing worse to Reinhard than anything that we have done to one another. And they all congregate on the X site, where each one sings a different part in the choir, but it all harmonises in one word: hate (with "murder" echoing somewhere in the background, just quietly enough that no one quite knows which singers are saying it).


Posts: 2933
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:02 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

What an absolute delusional fool! Get this old dude a good physiatrist.


Iff Dave rote ' Killers for Christ' wots iz prolemo wid it zo!

Did ee 4got

Wotz iz beef? Wotzup wid dah mindy bendahz mindey?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2009 11:54PM by free of DM.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: Dogmother ()
Date: July 27, 2009 12:05AM

Thank you Matilda, in my recent post I did not use the word "cult" lightly, and in my mind I went through the facts which you so clearly and comprehensively listed for us again. For this reason--Joe being duped into a cult--we are not holding his deplorable actions against him. What can be more deplorable than to sue, seek revenge, and try to destroy your own family for something that has aleady been dearly paid for. Joe will see the light. Joe will be reunited with the people who love him.

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