Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: furry faerie ()
Date: July 26, 2008 04:24PM

Hi Talamasca. I read what fran had to say on the welikejesus forum, and it seems like you have quoted him out of context.

I really didn't see that he was advocating that that should actually happen.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: private eyes ()
Date: July 26, 2008 05:25PM


I noted your query on another Forum:

At the risk of sounding up myself (or should that be, “projecting” myself positvely?:) )I have previously written some (what I think are) good explanations of the actual charge faced:

On Page 127 of this forum, I wrote (commenting on what appeared to be Dave trying to imply Reinhard was assaulted with a deadly weapon):

“Court Statute: P 245 A1 My understanding is this is a felony charge: Assault with a deadly weapon or force likely to produce great bodily injury

Sometimes, people like to leave out the last part when reporting, so it makes it sound more like the offender had a weapon.”

On Page 129 of this forum I wrote (commenting on Dave’s use of the term, deadly):

“In his post, he introduces the word, deadly. The relevant statute was Californian Court Statute: P 245 A1 the specific section in relation to this charge was,… force likely to produce great bodily injury. The word deadly, only relates, if a weapon is involved.”

I hope that explains that the charge is more correctly, force likely to produce great bodily injury, as there was no weapon used by those charged. The Australian equilavent would probably be, assault causing grievious bodily harm.

Regarding your question with reference to misdemeanours:

The American system allows for plea bargaining and what you are originally charged with can be downgraded, if it it acceptable to all parties. Particularly, if there are strong mitigating circumstances, as there would be in this case.

Sometimes the Court will accept a felony becoming a misdemeanour as the prosecution may fear losing the case altogether. Sometimes a defendant will plead guilty to a lesser offence, as they may not have the resources to fight or they simply accept to cop some punishment on the chin. The Courts may also take into consideration, whether a person may lose there job if they have an assault conviction. The result could be a worse punishment, than that which would be handed out by the Courts, so sometimes a decision could also be made to drop charges altogether, provided restitution is made and costs are also met.

I hope the above has been helpful to you.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: July 27, 2008 10:34AM

Dear Private Eyes,

Thank you again for your usual accuracy and the courtesy of "clearing up" this nagging uncertainty for "furry faerie"....

It IS more difficult to stir oneself to get involved with David now longer visibly involved. I mean you had a REAL "baddie" there, didn't you....

.....not just the witless side-kicks...

In their day Kevin or Craig were far, far, FAR more competent leaders than Fran, who really only holds his current position due to "default" (Roland and Sues' betrayal of the community in Australia, to whom before God, they hypocritically lied to their face in their protestations of "Christian love", while plotting to covertly dump them)

If either Kevin or Craig were still involved in the JC's, they would simply blow "straw men" like Fran away.....

...ho-hum....hence it does become an effort to continue to involve oneself with those who are either simply despicable or mediocre....

As may be seen in the words (thankyou Talamasca) of some scripturally clueless (Matthew 5: 39-40) Godless thug,...

.....(...(sigh) and aren't all they just utter rubbish these days!....but PLEASE furry faerie....DO provide the context that "excuses" this, won't you!!)

"I am not sure if the Johnsons will end up having to pay 3 million and file for bankruptcy, etc. As far as justice goes, those who beat Reinhard probably deserve to be beaten to the ground and have someone kick them in the head almost to death."

(As I in principle support the defence of trespass and provocation that the Johnsons will have open to them, surely then I too must deserve to have Fran (or his cohorts) "beat me to the ground" and "kick me in the head almost to death"......surely there must be some Jesus Christian who'd be willing to travel to Korea, and just try this out!)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2008 10:36AM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: July 28, 2008 01:09AM

Rom 9:14 ¶What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Rom 12:3¶ For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

1Cr 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Cr 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Cr 12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
1Cr 12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2008 01:19AM by zeuszor.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: July 28, 2008 02:17AM

Bhagavad-Gita, Chapter 16 verses 10-16

The demoniac, taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent. They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Being bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification.

The demoniac person thinks: "So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him; and my other enemy will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice." In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance. Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, one becomes too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and falls down into hell.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2008 02:27AM by zeuszor.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: July 29, 2008 06:59AM

John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.

So simple it is; it just hit me: it's hard for me to imagine Jesus getting beaten almost to death and then crucified, dying slowly and painfully, and then coming out of the grave three days later and proclaiming the Good News of the Kingdom, and then suing his persecutors for six million dollars for lost wages and His loss of earning capacity (not to mention His pain and suffering) in order to help finance the building of that Kingdom. You know?

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: July 29, 2008 09:21AM

John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you.

Another thing: can you imagine Rino washing Mr. Johnson's feet? Or, for another example, David washing any of his critics' feet?

Posted by: Mark Scheiderer ()
Date: July 31, 2008 12:52AM

Approximately how many people are involved with this group?

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: cultmalleus ()
Date: July 31, 2008 08:51AM

Zeusor, you have inspired me.

MckayJesus Appears to the Disciples
36 While they were still talking about this, MckayJesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Grievance be with you."

37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they would have a long meeting. 38 He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands. I have good donies! Touch and see; a ghost does not get such donies, as you see I have."

40 When he had said this, he counted his donies. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" 42 They gave him a piece of rubbish from a bin, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.

44 He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written by the Lawyers of Moses, the Solicitors and the Police."

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand Dave's writings. 46 He told them, "This is what is written: The McKayChrist will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and He will sue all those who have trespassed against Him, for loss of earnings and for pain and suffering, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Solicitor has promised; MILLIONS of dollars! but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from the System."
The Ascension
50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the Lawyer's office, praising the Legal System and waiting for their money.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 08:59AM by cultmalleus.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: private eyes ()
Date: July 31, 2008 10:08AM

Mark Scheiderer, quote:

"Approximately how many people are involved with this group?"

It would probably be generous to say 30. But that is the number commonly used (virtually all the time) by the cult when discussing its' membership with the media. The group also has interest from associates.

However, their internet presence and distribution of large volumes of literature, have the potential to influence large numbers of people. For example, one book written by their "annoited Apostle", Survivors has sold more than 1 million copies.

We have identified by name, approximately 70 ex members. There maybe more. The quality of our research is always dependent on and subject to, the willingness of people to co-operate and provide information.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2008 10:14AM by private eyes.

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