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apostate

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zeuszor
I do not think it's really DM's brother at all, but an impostor; if it really were DM's brother, he'd of realized that I was not the first nor the only person to have called DM's mother that day.

Can you somehow prove or show reasonable evidence that you are who you say you are, Mr. Offended?

Zeus, You are doing to this person what Dave did to David Lowe in asking him to prove himself. This poster showed me that you have reposted stuff from his mother on this forum and that is what he is upset about. I agree with him that his mother should not be involved in this in any way, even as far as posting Dave's newsletter copies of her letter to him all those years ago. I recall us coming to logger heads over this issue previously and ask that you comply with his requests and remove it from public view.

It is my prerogative to verify the ID of who I am dealing with. Am I just supposed to take the word of whoever shows up here at face value?

I never made any claims to certainty, definitive pronouncements or presumed to tell you what IS the case. That's David's style.

As for your request. Sorry, can't do it. It's impossible for me to remove them now anyway. Even if I could, I would not.

The blame for this should be on David, who published a letter from his mother in a newsletter that he then sent around the world to anyone who requested it.

We have come to loggerheads before Apostate, and I respect and admire you, but again must remind you that you are not the moderator.

His own efforts are coming back to haunt him. So don't blame me. I am not the one who published that letter in the first place.

Hey Rob, I'm sorry if this is unpleasant for you to hear, but your brother is one sick, sick individual. He has hurt a lot of people and seems to have absolutely no conscience about it. I for one am out to expose and stop him in any way I (legally) can. I am not going to sit idly by and let somebody else worry about it.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2008 01:14AM by zeuszor.

Thank you Apostate, thank you Blackhat, and thank you Private Eyes for not going on the offensive concerning my last post.

I have not objected to the posting of my mother's opinion of David 20 years ago. David himself make that public knowledge.

The conversation between Brian and my mother is not what upset my mother and therefore is also not what I am upset about.

It was the fact that he posted many (a whole letter full) of "quotes" on the internet in his campaign against David, and she says much of it is either a twist or outright fabrication of what she said to him and became extremely distraught over it. I find it interesting Private Eyes, that you would mention that everyone has accepted that Alice was wrong when she said... Could at least one person here consider the possibility that Brian was wrong in his recollection of the conversation? By all means Brian, if you are researching for a factual biography (or even a cult forum) would you consider the value of a recording of a conversation that obviously some people are going to dispute? But maybe it's not so obvious (at least at this forum). In Private Eye's own words, the agreement on how to use the contact information on Alice was torn assunder by Brian because getting information on David is more important than honoring agreements. (though I am still at a loss as to if the intent of this information was to help in Cult Education or just to hurt Dave and his mother) Could it possibly be that Brian's recollection of the conversation might be a little more spectacular than the actual conversation itself? After all, if I am going to misuse this contact information, I really need to produce some quality results, and while I might get challenged on my use of the contact information, who could possibly challenge whatever I write about a conversation with an 86 yr old lady in a nursing home who has no internet access. Certainly no one will believe David if he disputes it.
So when a new post occurs (no mention of the age of the information, only that Brian has met my mother, and here is what she thinks), I believe the age of the information is a mute point concerning the affect this will have on my mother if she finds out again that Brian is posting what "Alice thinks...." on the internet again.

While she does not see eye to eye with David concerning Christian concepts, she is not in the same relationship with David as she was 20 years ago as Brian would like you all to believe. The misrepresentation on Brian's part as knowing David personally, and being there to prepare a biography (when will it be coming out Brian, that I will read), was an open invitation to my mother to suggest that maybe Brian should reconsider writing a biography (because in my mother's opinion, maybe David is not a Saint). She was manipulated into saying some things about David that were NEVER intended to be put into a Cult education forum (but I'm sure you were upfront and totally transparant about your plan to do this all along, right Brian?)

Brian, good luck in your pursuit of David, but could you please refrain from quoting my mother on your forum again without proof of your information (as you have required proof of mine).

OK, I'll not mention your mother again. I guarantee you that.

The other person that called her that day no longer wishes to be involved here and I have to honor that so will mention no names. The people that need to know how to find this person know how to find this person and it can be verified that we colluded before making the calls. It was decided between us that my partner would make the first call to DM's mom, then I'd make the second call and write the report. We discussed the matter in some detail before anybody dialed the number. It was a Saturday morning as I recall. Nobody recorded the conversation; at least, I didn't.

Is this the proof that you are looking for?

Since you are here, how would you, sir, feel about telling us your memories of your brother as a youth?

Try and get my phone number from apostate and call me if you wish, sir. I would love to hear from you and am hardly hiding myself here.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2008 01:54AM by zeuszor.

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zeuszor
OK, I'll not mention your mother again. I guarantee you that.

The other person that called her that day no longer wishes to be involved here and I have to honor that so will mention no names. The people that need to know how to find this person know how to find this person and it can be verified that we colluded before making the calls. It was decided between us that my partener would make the first call to DM's mom, then I'd make the second call and write the report. We discussed the matter in some detail before anybody dialed the number. It was on a Saturday morning as I recall. Nobody recorded the conversation; at least, I didn't.

Is this the proof that you are looking for?

Since you are here, how would you, sir, feel about telling us your memories of your brother as a youth?

Try and get my phone number from apostate and call me is you wish, sir. I would love to hear from you and am hardly hiding myself here.

Thank you Brian, that was all I wanted. The proof I was referring to was to the content of your conversation with my mother (which if she told your partner, she could provide coroboration), but since you will not bring my mother up again, it's not needed.

My memories of my brother as a youth. I remember his paper route where he won a trip around the world, I remember his marriage to Cherry. I remember Kevin being born, because it was kinda neat having a nephew only a few years younger than me, and then I remember him going to Austrailia to become a missionary for I believe the Assembly of God (but I might be mistaken what church). Kinda hard to recollect stuff when you're only 6 years old, so Malcolm will have to excuse me if I don't consider this childhood experience enough to guilt me into taking up arms against my brother. Those posting on this website have spent more time with my brother than I have, and I really believe the only purpose of getting me to post here would be to hurt Dave by saying, look, we got your own flesh and blood to oppose you. You guys can do better than stooping to that. I really have bigger fish to fry with my own family and issues at hand here in the U.S. that I consider to be a bigger concern for me than posting on this website.

This is how I see it: if there was a serial child rapist running around on the loose, and I knew his identity, his whereabouts, his MO, etc. I'd feel a moral imperative to speak out and warn the public so that this guy could not hurt anybody else's kids. Sorry if it's a graphic example, but I am trying to put a fine point on it. To me, in my mind (and in a lot of other people's for that matter), what your brother does and how he does it is every bit as real and damaging and nasty to kids and families as what that pedophile would do. Maybe even more perverse in a sense. Your brother is a predator. He is deluded and amazingly arrogant. He's a generally bad guy. He is evil and he does evil. If you know something that could lead to his being exposed and/or stopped somehow and you do not speak out, then I say you share some of the responsibility for your brother's actions. The gate that he will touch when his number is up is bound to be hot. What he is doing to these families is abominable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2008 02:15AM by zeuszor.

zeuszor:

Dave McKay is certainly a destructive and despicable man, but that doesn't mean it's his family's fault.

It seems to me that Dave McKay has probably hurt his family and we should have sympathy for their pain.

It is not productive to attack Dave McKay's family, nor how his family handles the matter, which is private and personal.

Let them handle Dave McKay in their way and you handle him per whatever legal manner you feel is reasonable.

Dave McKay's family is not obligated to become activists in an ongoing battle.

As long as they are not actively supporting Dave McKay and his group, they are not complicit in whatever harm he does.

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Offended

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zeuszor
OK, I'll not mention your mother again. I guarantee you that.

The other person that called her that day no longer wishes to be involved here and I have to honor that so will mention no names. The people that need to know how to find this person know how to find this person and it can be verified that we colluded before making the calls. It was decided between us that my partener would make the first call to DM's mom, then I'd make the second call and write the report. We discussed the matter in some detail before anybody dialed the number. It was on a Saturday morning as I recall. Nobody recorded the conversation; at least, I didn't.

Is this the proof that you are looking for?

Since you are here, how would you, sir, feel about telling us your memories of your brother as a youth?

Try and get my phone number from apostate and call me is you wish, sir. I would love to hear from you and am hardly hiding myself here.

Thank you Brian, that was all I wanted. The proof I was referring to was to the content of your conversation with my mother (which if she told your partner, she could provide coroboration), but since you will not bring my mother up again, it's not needed.

My memories of my brother as a youth. I remember his paper route where he won a trip around the world, I remember his marriage to Cherry. I remember Kevin being born, because it was kinda neat having a nephew only a few years younger than me, and then I remember him going to Austrailia to become a missionary for I believe the Assembly of God (but I might be mistaken what church). Kinda hard to recollect stuff when you're only 6 years old, so Malcolm will have to excuse me if I don't consider this childhood experience enough to guilt me into taking up arms against my brother. Those posting on this website have spent more time with my brother than I have, and I really believe the only purpose of getting me to post here would be to hurt Dave by saying, look, we got your own flesh and blood to oppose you. You guys can do better than stooping to that. I really have bigger fish to fry with my own family and issues at hand here in the U.S. that I consider to be a bigger concern for me than posting on this website.

You are welcome.

Call me anytime you want. Even if it's three in the morning. Apostate has my phone number.

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rrmoderator
zeuszor:

Dave McKay is certainly a destructive and despicable man, but that doesn't mean it's his family's fault.

It seems to me that Dave McKay has probably hurt his family and we should have sympathy for their pain.

It is not productive to attack Dave McKay's family, nor how his family handles the matter, which is private and personal.

Let them handle Dave McKay in their way and you handle him per whatever legal manner you feel is reasonable.

Dave McKay's family is not obligated to become activists in an ongoing battle.

As long as they are not actively supporting Dave McKay and his group, they are not complicit in whatever harm he does.

Agreed. They will handle it their way, and I mine.

From now on I'll not mention that aspect of my research again.

I never "attacked" anybody, Rick.

zeuszor:

Fair enough.

But at times people may feel "attacked" by being included in this context.

Let's try to be sensitive to those feelings.

Yes, sir.