Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: hello ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:02AM

Besides- the world needs more gay poets. Al's poetry is fab- he's really talented and wonderful. Bring it on Al!xxxxx

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: February 27, 2008 09:59AM

Besides- the world needs more gay poets. Al's poetry is fab- he's really talented and wonderful. Bring it on Al!xxxxx

Yeah, "A GOOD HARD F**K" and "A Gay Christmas" are real literary masterpieces. Al's a regular Walt Whitman.

Seriously though: look, before you yell "Homophobe!", I want to say that I don't care if Al's gay. I am not making fun of him. I never said that there is something wrong with being gay. What consenting adults do behind closed doors (as long as nobody is getting hurt) is their business, and none of mine.

The first time I saw those pix was like six months ago, and I never pulled them out before now because they have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Al's latest round of bulls**t set me off and I decided to take them out of the closet, so to speak. Al outed himself already. All I did was Google his name.

I am sick and tired of the childish antics of Al the gay poet/Jehovah's Witness/Jesus Christian supporter/transvestite/erotic poetry author/Internet troll.

All that I am doing is simply trying to get him to quit trolling these boards, stirring up drama, and starting trouble. I want him to understand that this is not a game nor anything to be taken lightly. This is serious, and not a place for high school rumor-mongering.

He put those photos online, and they are publicly accessible. It's therefore "fair game." Don't dish it out if you are not prepared to take it, Al. Don't put pictures of yourself dressed like a woman out there if you are not prepared for people to see them, and don't complain about it when people read up on you. Don't call people names like "Satan's whore" or "dyke" unless you are prepared to air out your own laundry in public.

Al always projects his own gay self-hatred onto everybody else.

He has written me a couple of times threatening suicide, and once after he supposedly got his stomach pumped after swallowing a bunch of pills, and I urged him to go get some professional help. He is practically screaming out for it. The man has serious, serious issues.

There's nothing to be ashamed of in seeking psychiatric help, Al. I did and it worked for me. I do not judge you. You need help, Al. Please get it.

And please say hi to Wayne for me while you are at it.

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2008 10:16AM by zeuszor.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: February 27, 2008 06:32PM

(To confirm...)

From the JesusChristians website

Glenn, that last line is really just an insult and is not genuine criticism. I hope we can all learn how to disagree strongly but still not stoop to insults for the sake of insults.

A couple of comments I had were:

A. That David Lowe used that same phrase ("fair game") when showing off what he knew about you and Lisa. It's sad, but I hope that we don't assume we can do it here just because Brian, David, or someone else does it there.

B. Brian made a rather funny comment that he has nothing against gays, but that he was shocked that Al gave the title "A Gay Christmas" to one of his poems!

C. Anita said that she was not going to post anymore, and then an hour and a half later she posted again! She is very similar to Brian in that way.

D. Malcolm offered an unprecendented (apparently non-sarcastic) compliment to me/us for having censored some of the stuff that has appeared on this thread. I think that was very nice of him.
David McKay

Yes David that was NOT sarcasm on my part...again I acknowledge the responsibilty shown in your remark.. "I hope we can all learn how to disagree strongly but still not stoop to insults for the sake of insults.", in your recent posting. While I cannot speak in relation to points (B) and (C),

I am obliged to apologize to you and the other JC's on those occasions where I too may have "stooped to insults for the sake of insults".....(as incredible as it may be to believe) I would personally much prefer not to do so, but occasionally one carelessly, becomes too "involved" in "disagreeing strongly" as you put it.......

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: February 28, 2008 04:24AM

Dave is feeling "ruled"
For some like Malcolm and Craig in particular (and probably Rick and David Lowe as well), there is a desire to actually rule that world SOURCE: JC "flame" thread (so much for "resolving" differences)

Are questions from outsiders interfering with your desire to "rule" the world Dave? How odd that you would attribute a desire to rule the world to those who ask you questions. Your statement about those who ask you questions says more about you, and your thought processes, than it does about those who ask questions.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2008 04:33AM by apostate.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: February 28, 2008 02:00PM

Here's to good vibes and improved relations with the JCs!

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: February 29, 2008 08:12PM

Seeing as how Tofferer is reading what we say, and Dave likes to comment on it let's revisit his claims that WE are the ones who want to "rule" the world.

Dave writes: []
"Mmmm.... I feel you've missed the love and hate bit, Chris... but there may be some link between what they love and what they hate that is not based on opposites. My own feeling with regard to the link is that these are people with a type of perfectionist mentality, who crave an ideal world where all the bad guys have been done away with. For some like Malcolm and Craig in particular (and probably Rick and David Lowe as well), there is a desire to actually rule that world."

It's curious that Dave accuses us of having a perfectionist personality who crave an ideal world where all the bad guys have been done away with.

I was expelled as the bad guy ("apostate") along with half the community that Dave labeled "dead wood". Dave's "over-simplified" profile then, was that we lost the "vision" as a result of marrying women and caring for the things of this world, and he wrote the Virgin Army article in which he challenges the men to maintain the vision of remaining celibate/childless so they can be part of the end time virgin army that will ultimately slay the wicked resulting in rivers of blood.

Dave has had other purges since, testing a husband's loyalty by asking him to kick out his wife and then kicking him out instead, had a servant in Kenya whipped for stealing, and when the less than perfect world failed to press charges against someone they held their own trial and invited the "bad guy" to submit to their whipping and then whipped each other instead to provoke authorities into laying charges against him. The JC Flame Thread (which in typical doublespeak is misnamed Resolving Differences) is one continuing saga of Dave making sure the "bad guys" are "done away with" in Dave's world. I was banned from Dave's world because it was feared that people who were not "properly trained" might believe what I said.

Roland routinely fantasizes about the day when he can slay his enemies and rule with a "rod of iron", echoing the same sentiments that Dave has expressed in his "captain of the ship" rant, and I wonder what all the other followers think about Dave's negative views of those who crave an "ideal world". The idea that we should aim for perfection and forsake everything that might prevent us from seeking an ideal world (Kingdom of Heaven) is the line used to lure all new disciples in. If this is a personality deficiency then why did they drop out of the evil "system", shun their families affection, to flog Dave's books on the street?

And if we are the ones struggling to deal with the real world, why are we successfully contributing to it?

"So they love what we have (or even what we aspire to have), but they hate the fact that it is not working for them personally."

Yes, Dave I wish I had the wonderful relationship you have with your family and with the wider community where your tolerance and pragmatism is helping you fit in and be part of the greater mass of humanity! (sarcasm) What I "hate" is the fact that you condemn everyone else for what you yourself do. The fact that what you preach is not working for you personally deserves to be periodically pointed out, so others are not deceived by the rhetoric of utopian aspirations that in real life just becomes Dave's regime.

" The "occasional compliment and apology" probably represent something of a good step on both sides, where we accept that we DON'T have it all figured out, that even if we were given all the power in the world, we probably still don't know how to use it wisely enough to keep from hurting people. The compliments and apologies mean (for both of us) letting go of that utopian ideal and looking for common ground."

Did Dave apologise for something? Cherry will no doubt be pleased to hear that he is going to try and find some common ground with his children, so that she can at least enjoy the company of her grandchildren.

"Definitely over-simplified, but that's my take on it. I hope the compliments and apologies can continue."

Yes, I am keen to hear more about these apologies, Dave, and about how the "utopian ideal" failed for you.

Tofferer writes:
Quote (Dave):
So they love what we have (or even what we aspire to have), but they hate the fact that it is not working for them personally. End quote

"Perhaps that may simply be what keeps them coming back as well. I don't know."

It's good that Tofferer is honest about what he doesn't know.

I keep writing because people like him are reading it and our testimony might help others see they don't need to submit to Dave's perfectionist mentality, who uses people's idealism for his pragmatic purposes and to create an ideal world where all the bad guys have been done away with.

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: February 29, 2008 11:32PM

Dear Tofferer,

You would be aware that "projection"....(vexatious allegations against others of the motives and qualities that one is subconsciously aware they personal hold themselves, but from which they wish to divert any focus) a ready psychological ploy that the emotionally immature rely upon, to avoid confronting the demons that afflict them.

David McKay has overtly placed himself in control over the assets, finances and lives of a couple of dozen people, who have no legal recourse to any recompense for the years they have toiled away for him, selling the (ever more biblically remote) literature he produces in order to raise funds for his ongoing crusade, and who never in any sense of a direct, open and secret ballot freely elected him or the pliable cronies who have subsequently been nominated as "leaders".

Please indicate where I, Apostate or any other critic of David have been, or are, in similar circumstances: That is, we have duplicitously persuaded people (far younger than ourselves), that their relationship with "God" depends on the sincerity with which they obey our whims (naturally we would deliberately disguise this be describing it as our relevation of God's will)....Name the people we dictate our will to, (again we would in our own self-interests describe is as sharing our wisdom) and whose finances and assets were sold in order to pursue the wider goals we unilaterally set..

Tell me who they are, Tofferer! Point out where those we "rule" are! Show me the literature that any of us have produced that purposely endeavours to ensnare young lives into our political or religious empires, by calculated manipulation and the steady erosion of any previous relationships that threaten to draw those lives back away from us.

If you can not do this.....while are at the same time you are in a position to be able to observe that David can "persuade" those within in his organization to whip themselves, harvest their own organs for the publicity it buys him, live off refuse and eke out their lives living in leaking campervans while David has cooked meals in a home (courtesy of the welfare payments of the Aust Govt)....and while you are cognizant of the fact that EVERY former member (the clear majority of all the "JesusChristians" that ever existed) speaks out against the JesusChristians, in mutually corroborating testimony, and is then routinely pilloried by David, as we threaten the fantasies that sustain the empire ......... are you simply demented?

I understand that you have had a head injury and hence had previously decided not to question you further. However if you wish to vicariously amuse yourself by partying in David's charade......I also understand that you may be undergoing treatment of some nature. Possibly you may need to consider dramatically committing yourself to even greater level of acute care (.... for example, if you were ever surgically attached to Al Antony in a manner reminiscent of some Siamese Twins.....well at least then there might then be one full brain amongst the both of you...)

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Date: February 29, 2008 11:39PM

(Thank you...for pointing those recent postings out Apostate....there was a brief moment there, when I was in strangely unchartered waters being guardedly polite to David....I see now that it was merely a temporary and clearly diversionary instance, on his part)

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: March 01, 2008 01:05AM

A sent me this video of himself and I was shocked when I reviewed it. Check out what Al does in his spare time. What a weirdo.


Just kidding. That was Buffalo Bill's self-erotic dance from The Silence of the Lambs.

Get some help, Al. It's OK. There's nothing to be ashamed of.

Goodbye horses, I'm flying over you...

Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by: apostate ()
Date: March 01, 2008 10:09AM

Dave wrote: []
"Now I'm likely to derail this thing even further with a thought that I shared with Cherry yesterday. It's about growing old, and how people often return to some point in the past when they get senile. We both agreed that we find it hard to think of ourselves as being as old as we are, and that if we became senile tomorrow we would probably think of ourselves as being in our 30s or thereabouts (probably with our kids still being quite young). I am curious as to whether other older people feel the same way, but since we have so few older people posting here, we may never know! (Actually, we also wondered if it is connected with being around younger people that keeps us feeling that we are young... apart from all of our aches and pains from arthritis, etc.)"

Its interesting that Dave and Cherry are contemplating senility and are anticipating their thoughts returning to the time when they were around 30 and their children were quite young. Despite the benefits Dave sees in being surrounded by a community of young people, it seems the joy of raising a nuclear family still represents the prime time of his life. It is a shame that his daughter Christine, along with most other JC's has missed out on that experience.

I wonder what their other children will remember when they are old and their thoughts return to when they were about thirty. Hopefully it won't be when they were each kicked out as "rebellious heretics" or banished as "enemies posing as friends". If Dave could undo the damage he might find that he could share in their happy experiences of raising a nuclear family, although their grandchildren are quickly growing up.

For those who might be interested, Sheri and Boyd's son Josh was married on February 29 somewhere near Kyogal, NSW, to a girl from New Zealand named Hannah. They are travelling by faith on bicycles at present with no fixed abode.

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