May I suggest that as many of us as possible make inquieries with the US Consulate in Nairobi as to the Jesus Christians' safety during these unsettled times.

The US is in Kenya as a neutral observer. They will not take political sides.

We cannot count on Dave for correct information, good or bad.

Dave, if you truly care, put your relentless slandering of mothers aside for a little while, if only for the benefit of your young charges.

No son or daughter enjoys having their mothers taken to pieces and ridiculed. It doesn't make them feel good about themselves. Mother-child relationship is universal and primary.

It surely does not reflect well on Dave to do unto others what he does not want done to himself. We all treated mother, Alice, with utmost respect.

Cherry, do you have any say? Do you have the freedom to write to me privately? Maybe come for a visit?

As the New Year approaches, let's all make extra efforts to create peace and harmony in the world.

With regard to my last post, i.e. Dave asking to be the daddy, it is quite revealing that later on that particular thread he admits "my facetious comment about playing the part of the daddy". Okay, I'm not an expert in reading between the lines, but this comment seems rather contemptuous of parental titles. I mean, call me daddy but i was just being facetious! Does anyone else get the idea that he views both fathers and mothers with suspicion? With utter contempt? I'm open to being wrong about this, of course (hear that, Dave?).

I see David's been posting on his forum since the wee small hours this morning until much later today. He's got an answer for everything except the questions I raise, and dishes out hateful venom to other people that makes Jesus weep!

e.g. "Liesel continues to be her digusting self" [welikejesus.com]
"Sleazy" is so much closer to the truth than "hateful". [welikejesus.com]

He is more interested in slinging mud at his detractors and trying to win spurious arguments than in being a true "Jesus Christian" in his attitude towards people who don't agree with HIM! I thing everyone else on his Forum is much closer to "walking with Jesus" than "The Leader" ! I think this might be one of the reasons he says the Quakers are about to distance themselves from him.

He praises Franky for her attitude:

"Franky has higher estimates of her own greatness than can be subjectively measured. She says some good things, and I especially liked that re-worded letter she put together, showing how disagreements can be expressed in more positive terms. It was top quality quakerese!" [welikejesus.com]

But over and over again he shows that he just doesn't "get it" regarding how you relate to others in the way Jesus taught.


(Again I ask the question you won't respond to:)

David, you told an amputee that he wasn't for real until he gave up the pension, and you fell over yourself trying to get him and his payout to join the JC's.

When are you going to give up yours?

Good Morning all my dear children far and wide, especially Zeuszor! (I'm probably the oldest on this forum! Go on Dave, beat up on a woman approaching your mother's age!)

Welcome 2008!

Jack and Blackhat, I agree that Dave has some serious, deep seated, emotional shortcomings and hatred for parenhood which is pretty creepy. Does this come from childhood experiences when his parents might have called the "kettle black and a spade a spade?" Now he finds us confirming what his decent parents told him all along? "Dave, you are not led by God. Sorry to tell you son."

What a shame. All that time and brainpower wasted. All that constant drama and paranoia.

Has anyone ever seen Dave take a vacation? Build a sand castle on a beach somewhere? Splash around in the ocean? Anyone got pictures? Does Dave know how to swim? Scuba dive into deep, dark waters? I can picture him right now with that oxygen tank on his back.

Dive deeply Dave, there's more to dig up.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2008 09:15PM by Dogmother.

Dave has posted this on his forum. I am told that Dave in fact increased his slanderous writing activities over the Holidays. Yet he writes:

"I have not sent you a personal email, but I would have hoped that others have done so since you arrived on this forum. I don't know what happened if they did, but if they either did not write to you or if they wrote once and then ignored your reply, then I think you have a valid complaint, and it is, indeed, disappointing that it may have happened.

This is a very busy time of the year, when many of our members are visiting relatives, travelling, AND spending long hours getting out a lot of literature on the streets. We have not, over the past few weeks, been spending anywhere near as much time on the forum. I expect that over the next few days, there will be a lot of members returning to the forum, and probably getting back into touch with people that they have not been in touch with for a while. "

Which of your members visited relatives?

I can believe, however, that everyone spent "long hours getting out a lot of literature."

Nice way to take a Holiday. Did you get out a lot of literature yourself Dave?

Kirstie, from the Crazy Cat Ladies Society, you can write to me. I am mother to 3 aging cats.

Cats are amazing and perceptive creatures, aren't they? Run Dave by any cat and see what you get. Not a lot of purring....They'll probably hide on the talest piece of furniture in your house and screech.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2008 09:58PM by Dogmother.

Nope, never posted as Muppet. Dave's on another fishing expedition.

Someone's cat was disinterested in Dave. Smart cat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2008 09:04AM by Dogmother.

My husband will be posting soon as I'll take a break and shall embark on a sabbatical trip to a distant part of the world. Stay tuned. He has a great sense of humor and doesn't mince words. May have a few choice things to say to Dave. I let him speak for himself.

He has his own e-mail address, of course, but because RR has such strict standards he cannot post from the same computer in our home.

I have never posted as Muppet and I can't take credit for that person's excellent sharing on this forum. Muppet were are you?

Sooner or later we all get a little weary and have to take a break to restore our souls from being dragged down by Dave. He's not a very uplifting man, is he now?

Dear Dogmother,

I look forward to your husbands "robust" contributions......Enjoy your well deserved time away!

You are quite right that David is purposely fabricating an image, when he states...."this is a very busy time of the year, when many of our members are visiting relatives"...like many of his lies, it is based on the premise that most cannot access the information which would easily disprove him(and information that he chooses to hide) ....and the statement is, of course, solely for PR purposes on his site, in the hope that the "hype" of "loving and caring" JC's "joyfully" contacting their families over Christmas will dispel and doubts visitors to his sites might otherwise harbour (....the REAL influence that David has on his members relationships with anyone external to his organization, of course can be seen in Joes Johnsons "communication" with his family) and can yet hopefully deceive others into considering joining his "merry band"...(led by none other than a "Robbing Hood"!!)

Blackhat again raises a blatant scriptural anomaly here.....David covertly tells those in his servitude that ONLY he lives up to the scriptures (Acts 2:44-5 "And all that believed were, together and had all things in common.....) hence you cannot serve "God" except through discipleship in his empire.....however nothing has EVER been "in common"....the bank accounts(or land titles) were always in Davids' name (or in his trusted leaders such as Cherry or Christine) for the ENTIRE history of the JesusChristians......nothing has (or ever will be, I'd wager) "in common".....and in fact David has willfully DISOBEYED the scripture he throws as proof of his "Godliness" to his minions, since the very commencement of his "ministry".....

Hence,..may God both add to him the "plagues" that are written in the Book of Daniel, and take away his part from the book of LIFE (Rev. 21:18,19)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2008 06:49PM by Malcolm Wesley WREST.

I am Muppet and am not Dogmother.

The current situation in Kenya is just one example of where the Quakers involvement with the Jesus Christians could bring discredit to the organisation.

On what appears to be the official Takatifu Gardens website, there is no mention made of the Jesus Christians.

In fact it states: “Takatifu Gardens is associated with local Quakers”.

Whether those local Quakers are in fact the Jesus Christian members who are also Quakers or one of the African groups of Quakers is unclear.

The site goes on to state:

“Some Christian activities may take place on the premises. There is no pressure on volunteers to attend these activities”. (Emphasis mine)

There is considerable effort to attract volunteers to the site, under what can only be assumed to be the auspices of the Quakers.

However, we learn that in a crisis, those apparently responsible for the safety of the “volunteers” do not even have next of kin's phone numbers.

It is good at least that steps have been taken to hide one of the Jesus Christians members to keep him safe. In that area, we can at least have some confidence in the organizers.

According to media reports, Sue Ellis was hidden from her parents lest they deprogramme her. DC was hidden in India after the “Hinch” programme. KS was taken to Australia. Bobby Kelly was apparently hidden to stop him being deprogrammed and the Jesus Christians were said to have hidden member, Betty Nyorge and her son in Kenya from her Father.

The Australian Quaker Yearly Meeting starts on the 5 January. It is hoped that those organizing the meeting will take urgent steps to clarify Quaker responsibilities and provide some independent oversight to Takatifu Gardens. That way at least, parents can be confident that their children are being well cared for, not being placed under undue pressure and not unduly isolated from support systems should they wish to return home.

If a volunteer was seriously injured or killed in this crisis or any that could occur in the future, who will take responsibility? Who will be legally liable?

Quakers are reminded that the Jesus Christians have no legal standing in Australia. They are not an incorporated organisation, do not qualify as a charity, nor are they tax exempt.