To all those who have received a copy of the Jeremy Kyle Show, I hope you will appreciate some advice. I apologize to those who already have this in hand and whose technical knowledge is better than mine, but I just want to help here.

It would be great to see the entire show on YouTube, but there may be legal issues. Generally, short clips are ok under 'fair use' rules, but putting the entire show up may be illegal.

It may be more effective to post short clips. Two spring to mind. The first is the classic "Dave, you're not Jesus" exchange. It's not often you see a cult leader totally humiliated on national TV, but this was a classic. Try to get this out on YouTube and get it to 'go viral', like "Star Wars Kid". Give it a funky title like "Cult Leader Humiliated" and use key words like "Jesus Christians", "David McKay", "Dave McKay", "cult", etc. Then send it to all your friends.

The second clip that springs to mind is Sue sneering at the Children of God survivor and being told by the TV presenter to stop disrespecting her, just because she was commentating on perceived similarities between the Children of God and the Jesus Christians, and between David Berg and David McKay. To see a cult member sneering at someone who suffered sexual abuse from the age of 2 is disturbing to say the least. This would be a great clip to post online and send to any people thinking of joining the Jesus Christians. The obvious question to ask them would be this:

"Just how Christian do you think this is?".

Neither one. He's neither person, Jason, I assure you.

Quote
malcolm
...and in the event that you can't......just go the f*ck to hell (..your brother will kindly show you the door......)....and piss off with the divisive "hate-mongering" your brothers has bidden you spread here.....!!

this is really so over the top. I have met much of DM's family including the brother I think is Aghast and he is just such a genuine guy. Really, really generous and kind.

I am happy to be divided from those that hate. Really pleased in fact. I would be pleased to be in the same "hell" as Aghast. You can stay in your "heaven". You can analyse me and tell me I don't have strong enough "faith" in the anti JC club and that I secretly want to follow Dave again but I simply do not care what you think, or what Dave thinks, because I have broken free from the "you are either for me or against me" mindset.

I will go further and state that I appreciated many things I learnt and personal growth I achieved in the JC's. I was helped by them in certain ways. I stayed there too long, that is true, but I cannot deny good things about them, at least how they were at some times (which was probably somewhat determined by Dave's mental state which can fluctuate, I wonder sometimes about whether there is an actual mental illness, but I digress....).

So if this is the division you want, here it is. You have achieved it, as you are achieving higher and higher unity in the JC camp.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2007 09:11AM by cultmalleus.

I will go further and state that I appreciated many things I learnt and personal growth I achieved in the JC's.

What were some of those good things of which you write, friend? What did you learn from your experience with them? What was DM like at the time you were involved? When exactly did you leave? Why? Just asking so that we can see where you are coming from better, and because I'm wanting to get to know you a bit better.

I admit to my opinion as being that DM is an un-redeemable, basically evil person, a malignant personality. The kind of man that society should be protected from. I see him as lower than a pedophile and admit find it hard to think of him with any compassion. I simply see no good in him. He's bad to his core in my eyes. How explicitly can I put it?

Does this mean that I "hate" DM? I don't know, we throw that word around a lot...let's look it up...

HATE
1.
a. To feel hostility or animosity toward.
b. To detest.
2. To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes.

I despise DM, as I wrote before, feel nothing but contempt for him, don't feel sorry for him an ounce, dislike him personally a great deal and find him to be a most distasteful of character. I guess that means that strictly speaking, I "hate" DM. I despise him, detest him, and will have a glass of champagne some day when I get the news that he has left his body; I'll stop what I am doing and celebrate it on the spot. And I don't feel like a hypocrite in writing this and still calling myself a Christian. More later.

Ephesians 5:1



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2007 09:32AM by zeuszor.

I wrote this a long time ago, just found it, and will reference it again:

Please consider the pastoral epistles where Paul calls people out by name. We can also look at 3 John where John calls out Diotrephes (sp?) the coppersmith by name. Then of course there is the entire book of Galatians where Paul speaks directly to the false doctrine infiltrating the church there.

Jude 3 commands us to earnestly contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. The context of the passage makes it clear that we are contending against false teachers. 2 Peter says very similar things.

1 Cor. 11 says that some divisions are necessary so that those who are approved to God may become manifest from those who are not. 2 Cor 11 also has very strong statements about false teachers.

Another great passage is Acts 20:28-31.

My favorite is Ephesians 5:11.

The Bible simply does not support a "peace at any price" or "hands off" position. False doctrine destroys people spiritually.

But then remember that I am crazy.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2007 09:42AM by zeuszor.

Quote

What were some of those good things of which you write, friend? What did you learn from your experience with them? What was DM like at the time you were involved? When exactly did you leave? Why? Just asking.

Thanks for your kind questions.

I learned to be disciplined, first externally, then internally in the JC's. I was in a state in my life where I felt I needed to join something like the Army, but preferably one with more idealistic aims. We did some good projects at times in the JC's. Dave has times when he can be understanding and reasonable. There are certainly nastier people in the JC's than him, but he is more responsible. At times he can flip into a real state and be very black and white over something that is grey, or even untrue. When Dave is in a "state" he can be very unreasonable. I wonder about manic depression.

I left over 10 years ago now. I had a better time in the JC's than many, and I had privileges others did not have. I could not accept that life and God's will was about selling dubious interpretations of prophecy on the street, often a forced sell technique of handing out the tract/book and then asking for money. In the past they did free work projects and community projects that were quite positive.

I will write more later.

Thanks for your kind questions.

You are welcome. Thanks for your kind answers.

There are certainly nastier people in the JC's than him, but he is more responsible.

Intriguing, friend. Nastier people than him? Wow, that's a strong statement. Nastier people. Like who, do you mind telling us? That gets my curiosity aroused. And why and how is DM more responsible for it all? You are giving me a whole new perspective, a whole new understanding of the JCs now.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2007 09:59AM by zeuszor.

I do not really want to say who is nastier, it is a subjective thing. Suffice to say that, by following Dave's dictates, people have had to suppress parts of themselves, and have become bitter and nasty as a result. Dave is relatively free to do as he pleases, so he is not really bitter, and can be easier to get along with (as a member).

Members in deputy leadership positions get criticised for being too "soft", so they often try and please Dave by being hard. Sometimes they assume Dave would approve of them being hard in a particular decision. This allows Dave to sometimes take a softer line which makes him more popular. Nevertheless, it is manipulation, in an environment where Dave has created the rules. This makes him more responsible, but does not absolve all responsibility from those who always take the hardest line under subjection to Dave.

Other, kinder members try and be more reasonable, even at cost to themselves in terms of status within the group. If you read the article "The Cuddlies" you can see where these ideas come from.

I'm a big fan of cuddles myself!

Thanks for that insight. Tell us please, what do you see as being David's main faults or flaws in character and /or leadership style? What do you see as his strongest strengths? Where and when do you think he went wrong, if you do think that he did?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2007 12:57PM by zeuszor.