Rule #2 - If the post contradicts my point of view, it is a lie.

"L", but it appears NOTHING (including the attached photo) will protect me or my mother.

Thank you, those of you who support my request for my mother's privacy.
Thank you Zeuzsor for your absolute transparancy
Thank you counsel of mothers for your blessings
Thank you Jack for your scientific method (says the lab rat)
Thank you all for explaining to me how Dave supposedly NOT visiting his mother helps your cause, because that seems to be the most unpopular untruth in Brian's LETTER TO DAVE. That "Holy Grail" piece of information is worth the suffering you are causing my mother.

Fight fire with fire. That's how wars start. It appears some of you are ok with my mother being a casualty of war.

I personally believe your forum should divide, because it is apparant that some of you wish to combat the JC's with "good and righteous motives". If you truely wish for people to take your forum seriously, you will stick to your ethics, I commend you.

For others, those are only words to the used to justify an eye for an eye (I forget which sermon Jesus put that out in).

I figured it would take me a few days to see through the grey, but it appears there is only black and white, those with good and righteous motives, and those out for blood (but in a sensitive and respectful manner).

I case, I've misunderstood a post, maybe you could tell me which you are in each of your next posts? I'm running a poll.

Just trying to figure out who I need to protect my mother from. Seems since I am the brother closest to my mother, Dave's other brothers are appreciative to anything I can do to protect her. Please don't fault me for that.

ASININE JC-RELATED QUOTE OF THE DAY

It should be re-stated here once again, with regard to the relationship between David Lowe and Brian Birmingham. Brian has been one of the major sources of information for David's research. However, when David planned a media summit at ITV, he deliberately left Brian out, after getting a psychologist's report on Brian, based on stuff that Brian had written. Brain was regarded as a dangerous loose cannon.

The question is just how long will it be before David too has to publicly dissociate himself from his main source of information?


[welikejesus.com]

Quit beating a dead horse, David. His main source of information? You idiot. You FLAMING idiot. Nobody named David Lowe is involved with this. I had never even heard of such a person until you started that stuff up. You make yourself look far more silly and bizarre than I ever could on my own, and hence, do half of my work for me. The only reason you recommended me for the ITV deal was because you thought that you could use that as an opportunity to reveal my source's name, huh? You thought you could trick me, right? Boy, you sure did screw yourself on that one, David.

Earlier, it would have been better for me to have written:

In principle, I still believe in TFI's ostensible mission.

What color is the sky in your world, David?

I told you once already, the source of my information (a lot of which was from Eyes) is really a PI who lives in South Korea. His name? Fah Kyoo!



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 12:16PM by zeuszor.

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zeuszor
I think the REAL reason that more (most) exJCs have not come forward has nothing to do with me or anything I have done; it is because deep down, there is a part of each of them that still believes in DM and the "special" mission of the JCs.

In the JC's Dave would condescendingly tell people what their "deep down" thoughts were. He still does it, even to those outside his sphere of influence. Now you are doing the same.

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zeuszor
They generally seem still think of him, in some ways, as a friend and hope to be able to reason with him and prompt some change. There's still a lot of fear of DM among exJCs in general too. I can understand that. I can relate to it. It can take years for the ex-members to work their own ways though the damage in their hearts and minds.

I do not hide the fact that I consider myself Dave's friend. I am a friend to lots of people. It is out of a sense of friendship to him that I challenge him, or in this case challenge you for doing what I consider to be completely innappropriate behavior. Regarding prompting change: there is a saying that says you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar... or something like that

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zeuszor
This is my opinion, my theory.

How would you feel if I simply discount you opinion as you did mine by saying we all have "elbows"?

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zeuszor
I will further remind you that it was you, Apostate, who got me involved with this in the first place, like a year and a half ago, right after I left TFI.

Zeus, I met you on this thread. You were already "involved".

Apostate, let's not fight. Peace. I meant nothing by the "elbows" comment, and was simply trying to express that everybody has a right to their opinion. Don't read too much into it.

DM takes people's posts apart and responds to them line by line. Now you are doing the same thing.

I told everybody what I THINK, what MY OPINION is, and I didn't tell you WHAT IS THE CASE. DM presumes to tell us what reality is, what we are all thinking, and I made it clear that I was expressing AN OPINION.

I don't believe that I do not remember reading DM EVER preceding a statement with something along the lines of "In my opinion..." You know?

I do not hide the fact that I consider myself Dave's friend. I am a friend to lots of people. It is out of a sense of friendship to him that I challenge him, or in this case challenge you for doing what I consider to be completely innappropriate behavior. Regarding prompting change: there is a saying that says you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar... or something like that

If you are such a great friend of David's why do you still decide to remain anonymous, why not let him (us) know your real name?

Actually, I wanted to be a part of TFI because I admired Ole and wanted to help expose the crooks of the Christian world. What wound up happening, long story short, was that I helped to expose TFI. I got into investigating the JCs right after I left TFI, around the time of the "trial", a couple months before that actually.

He works in mysterious and wondrous ways, does He not?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 01:54PM by zeuszor.

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apostate

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zeuszor
Hey aghast, if you really are McKay's brother, please tell us the first initial of the first name of the first person to call Alice McKay, the person who called her even before I did. Give us some kind of hint, if not an initial, give us something. Can you do that please, so that we can know you are genuine and not one of McKay's drones??

Take it from me Zeus. It is one of Dave's brothers.

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Jack
What Zeuszor has done (accomplished) here at this forum is not unprecedented. It would seem rather naive to try and 'protect' the wider milieu of Dave McKay. It is actually quite logical to investigate all threads of his life. I mean, if he were Charles Manson or Adolf Hitler some journalist at some point would have to make contact with their friends, associates, family, etc. As I have stated, there are 'rules' to protect these innocent individuals. You'd be surprised how truly powerful it is just to say, 'No comment!'

Here's the thing, Jack, we are not dealing with Charles Manson or Adolf Hitler. Such comments in no way foster continued communication or promote rational discourse. Dave does not loom that big in my mind.

What exactly has Zeus accomplished? All I see is a wake of destruction similar to what dave leaves behind him, and if people are thinking that dave will somehow have an epiphany as a result... think again.

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Jack
For the sake of this mission, let's stay calm and collected.

Yes let's.

It's fine that someone as obviously destructive as McKay doesn't loom as large for you as a Manson or Hitler, but, to be fair, these are not new comparisons. I'm level-headed enough to know that I was exaggerating to put a point across, and, to be fair, I didn't say McKay was like either of these two killers. So, one only has to dilute the mix by a small amount to arrive at a more accurate comparison of McKay.

There is no doubting, in my mind, that McKay is a very troubling and troubled individual. Does he go out of his way to apply his twisted mind/soul to destroy and/or damage others? I think the answer is obvious. I personally cannot paint anyone as being evil (it's just not a concept I can accept) and, so, any so-called individual who is deemed as such will always be unfairly labeled. My point? I think there is goodness and positivity in even the worst monster. I'm very tempted to ask Zeuszor to contact my father for a clearer example of this grim personality type. But, like contacting any monstrous individual, it is fraught with disappointment. And the only reason I mention my father is that he could easily be compared to someone like Hitler or McKay, but I survived his torment and, IMHO, I gained much by doing so. If you asked me if I would have had it any other way...I'd have great difficulty in answering that.

What's my point here? The point is that we all have some level of compassion and empathy for even the most vile individuals if we take the time to first heal ourselves. It's a rare individual that goes through life only expressing hate and cynicism. I trust that those who know me feel that my life as it had been is not a huge influence on my current life. Of course, I'm not foolish enough to say that I don't require more healing.

Of course, I'm waffling now. Yes, I'm defending myself because I don't make claims lightly. I value this forum and, in doing so, I value each and every voice here.

What has Zeuszor accomplished? I think you know the answers to that just as we all do. For instance, he put himself on the public firing line to face up to this man, McKay. Okay, it might be considered light-weight, but he is backing his words with deeds. I don't think anyone here, including Zeuszor, is under the illusion that McKay will ever snap out of his delusions. No, the only epiphany for him will come when he looks down at his own grave and realises that no one can be bothered leaving flowers for him (my sad attempt at humour, of course).

I thought the main aim of this forum was to educate and illuminate the public of the goings-on of the Jesus Christians.

I think Zeuszor would be the first to agree that occasionally his emotions take the upper hand, but, unlike McKay, he has the strength of character to admit his faults and failings.

With regard to McKay's brother, your vote of confidence of his genuine identity is surely noted. But to be fair and just to this process, the jury is still out.

Just for the record, I do not subscribe to the doctrines of the Bible, the Gita or Qu'ran. I have suspicions of any individual that takes religious ideas beyond their own hearts.

I thought the main aim of this forum was to educate and illuminate the public of the goings-on of the Jesus Christians.

Hahahaha good point Jack. That's the whole point, isn't it? Education and prevention. Thanks for your kindness and support.

Okay, it might be considered light-weight, but he is backing his words with deeds.

I know what you mean Jack, but this is people's lives at stake here, man. Some of these people would be willing to die for David. That is no small potatoes. Dig it?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 02:07PM by zeuszor.

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zeuszor

If you are such a great friend of David's why do you still decide to remain anonymous, why not let him (us) know your real name?

It is called wisdom and freedom of choice Zeus.

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Jack

What has Zeuszor accomplished? I think you know the answers to that just as we all do.

I told you what I thought had been accomplished. What do you think has actually been accomplished?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 02:19PM by apostate.

CRAZY TRAIN



ALL ABOARD! HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of people living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate

Mental wounds not healing
Life's a bitter shame
I'm going off the rails on the crazy train

I've listened too preachers
I've listened too fools
I've watched all the dropouts
Who make their own rules
One person conditioned to rule and control
The media sells it and you live the role

Mental wounds still screaming
Driving me insane
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train

I know that things are going wrong for me
You gotta listen to my words
Yea-h!

Heirs of a cold war
That's what we've become
Inheriting troubles, I'm mentally numb
Crazy, I just cannot bear
I'm living with something that just ain't fair
Mental wounds not healing
Who and what's to blame
I'm going off the rails on a crazy train!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 02:31PM by zeuszor.

Jack's right, Apostate: the fact that you say you can vouch for aghast means little. Please sir, give us a clue of some kind as to who the other caller was so that we can know with reasonable certainty that you are being truthful. Nothing personal, no offense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2007 02:53PM by zeuszor.

It's been a good night, everybody. Thanks for all of your kindness and respectful attitudes on this matter.

Logging out.

B