Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: November 29, 2007 02:55PM

Yes, yasmin, you are right. Casey's post was very compassionate in tone. Though, I can't help but think that if I or one of the others had written something similar about some similar experience, we'd be accused and belittled for "bragging." The cynical part of me wants to say something sarcastic like, "Oooooh Casey, how good of you! Oooh, you are so humble to tell us of all your good deeds!" etc. What is "testimony" for a JC is evidence of "bragging" and hypocrisy for a JC critic. You know? A double-standard.

Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: Blackhat ()
Date: November 29, 2007 03:25PM

Can somebody list something for me?

How many times has there been an outcry about the methods of recruitment into the JC's, I would like to know. I mean families doing what they can to stop it, legal cases against them, incidents of reported abductions.

There are many postings here now, can we have one concise list of the history of times when families and/or the law have done things to try to stop someone joining because they believed there was undue coercion or brainwashing? Each instance can be debated, but the sum of the parts may be greater than the whole.

I would just like to know the hit-rate on the cult-o-meter.

Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: November 29, 2007 03:28PM

David wrote:

"It is evidence of the fact that people who are not deliberately looking for ways to condemn us can see through even the sleaze, and should help us to remember that we don't have to get angry at the sleaze on the grounds that good people are going to fall for it. People only fall for it because they want to be turned against us."


OK, so if I disagree with the JC position in any given topic, it is my fault, and it has nothing to do with objectivity or logical thinking, right? I disagree with and am alarmed by you because I WANT to be, right? Do I understand? If I do not, please explain: what do you mean by that David? "...because they want to be turned against us." It couldn't have something to do with you, no way, right? Always the other person's problem, isn't it? Of course.

You never cease to amaze me with your incredibly "self-serving logic", David. I like that term, "self-serving logic." About sums it up. Like you look for every single chance you can get to be "persecuted." Makes me sick. Good night, all.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2007 03:29PM by zeuszor.

Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: hello ()
Date: November 29, 2007 08:27PM

Casey wrote:

"Although their hatred is so strong against us, I find it hard to believe that any of our critics would refuse a kidney from a JC if he/she was lying in a hospital bed in need. If I had it to do over again, I think I would seriously be ok with donating to any of the crew over at RR, despite our disagreements. I don't know if any of them would believe that, but for what it's worth, it's how I feel."


Casey, you have it all wrong. I do not hate you. Nobody ever said that they hate you. I am quite concerned for you, as I have repeated in the past, but you have made your decisions, and I have made mine. I salute your decision to donate. This is not an "us vs. them" scenario, and I do not think of the JCs as my enemies. The matter is not so simplistic as that. I believe that you have been tricked, however, and that David is a bad man.

Anyway, I hope that you are well.

Yeah Casey- I thought your post was lovely- lots of love to you.x

...pre-neanderthal logic...
Date: November 29, 2007 08:57PM

Dear Zeusors,

David's patently wicked attempts to yet again "dehumanize" his critics by "labelling"(we are bitter or hateful, what have you) plain evidence of the outright criminality with which he conducts himself....(in addition to the brazen statement it makes about the neanderthal nature of his "intellect")....Davids' faithful relationship with Satan, does occasionally bear "thorns" however, in that as David notes.....a few individuals, who fail to perceive that Davids' "innocence" is as equally credible as Al Capones' "lack" of criminal convictions", may briefly write "nice things" (to David McKays' ears) on the JC web-site......(I observe that the people who write "nice things" regrettably then fail to "forsake all and follow David".....perhaps the intentions behind those "nice things" might be just a little superficial...!!....but at least David can stoke his ego, with them...)

Lets' put Caseys good will to the test at some point, shall we!!.......I'm not anywhere as noble and must say that personally there is at least ONE Jesuschristian to who I certainly would not donate an organ....Casey might like to hazard a guess as to who that might be.....

Dear Blackhat,

As NO parents have ever supported the entry of their children into the JC's (the sad resignation of Rolands mother might be the closest they have come), you need simply add the numbers of current former members to calculate the figure you seek....and taking Private Eyes statistics to heart, one might then presume there to be something like 100 "families" involved and assuming that there would have been a minimum of 5 people (two parents, some siblings and/or close friends) affected by the decision to join there would be at least 500 people world-wide. who have personally suffered through Davids' abduction of their children....

Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: private eyes ()
Date: November 29, 2007 11:59PM

Blackhat, in regards to lists, Dave will simply argue the technicalities of whether people have been psychologically coerced, abducted or are simply exercising their own choice to become involved in the Jesus Christians.

But here he admits to having had a special group of members, who didn’t have a choice.

The following excerpt is taken from a “Dave Letter”, dated August 2003 which was addressed, “A Message to our Young People”

“Hi (Five Children’s names, deleted to protect their identities).

Do you guys know that whenever we talk about how many members we have in our community, we include all five of you as equal members to the rest of us adults? We say that we have 28 members, when really we only have 23 adults. So why do you think that we say we have 28 members, and not that we have 23 members? It is because we really do think of each of you as full members of the Jesus Christians. You all go out on the streets each week and work faithfully to help tell the world about the teachings of Jesus. We all appreciate the hard work that you are doing for God.
But you guys have a special problem, and that is that you don't really have a personal choice about being with us or not being with us. You are here because one or both of your parents are members of our community...”

Fortunately, some of the children to who this letter was directed are no longer with the cult. However, how do you replace the years that were stolen from them? We are talking about some real youngsters here. Kids that should have been at School, instead, allegedly eating out of garbage bins and out on the streets asking for donations for Dave’s tracts. Let’s all spare a thought for the children still in or yet to come, who still won’t be able to choose.

Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: FunkyPunkyG ()
Date: November 30, 2007 09:23AM

Whatever I post never gets posted.... LOL What sort of 1 sided Forum is this??? LMAO

I feel exactly the same way. Where is my last post? Well, at least my account works and I am not blocked...

Thanks for your "concerns" for the children of the JCs...

Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: zeuszor ()
Date: November 30, 2007 12:04PM


"...the RR mob came up, and I think that most of us felt that we would be over the moon if someone over there really expressed any genuine remorse for the way they set out to see evil in everything that we do.

Obviously, it's important not to get bitter toward people who are NOT sorry, but the kind of forgiveness that leads to reconciliation has to involve effort from both sides: One repenting and the other forgiving... just as happens between us and God."

David McKay


Always the other person's fault. Always the other person's problem. Never can he consider that there might be something wrong with him. So friendlier relations with him will begin only once I repent of my position with respect to his group and ask for his forgiveness? This is more of David putting himself in a sort of God-like position, he's really enjoying his power-trip, I am sure. "You must first repent and then ask for my forgiveness! Then and only then can reconciliation begin!" That is something that would never happen. Like it never occurs to him that David McKay might have anything to apologize for, he's oblivious. It just amazes me every day.

Also: today I got the word that our (JK) show will be on on the 10th and 11th of December. That'll be something to see. I wonder why David did not break the news already...?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2007 12:05PM by zeuszor.

Date: November 30, 2007 12:23PM

A poignant observation Private Eyes....

but.....hmm.....duty of care? Given the increasing raft of legislation now mandating standards of "minimal care"....would it not be possible to convict David of deliberately inciting dereliction of parental care (given that we aware that those who are pyschologically trapped within the JesusChristians will perjure any legal proceedings in order to protect David himself from prosecution as far as possible) among those he "leads"(....down to their own destruction...)....the act of INCITEMENT itself, being the legal transgression in question, not the actual acts per se of negligence of care.....

His own extant writings might well then be enough to convict him....

(....Naturally we would anticipate that David would work to circumvent this by then demanding that his disciples "forsake" their own children (in addition to giving unscriptural committments not to marry) prior to joining and during their servitude....

because you know, after all... (in the opinions of some) there is of course no price too high, that one might pay for the "pearls" of wisdom from David "twist" a certain biblical parable into a Mackayism....)

Re: Australian cult: Anyone recognize this?
Posted by: cultmalleus ()
Date: November 30, 2007 07:03PM

“In 25 years, there must be dozens of people who have left the Jesus Christians, who could have been produced as more reliable witnesses against us than Malcolm. David Lowe claims to have located sixty of them, and Brian says that every one of them has only negative things to say about me. So where are they? There are very few groups on earth that could boast a record of a quarter of a century without a single disillusioned ex-member willing to publicly criticise it. But that seems to be the Jesus Christian claim to fame.”

Dave is so ridiculous. What is this forum except many ex members and others linked with them publicly criticising him and his cult? There are very few groups of such a small size that have had such long running vehement criticism against them. That is the truth. Why don't we all publicly say who we are? Because unlike him, we do not crave publicity. We are also wise to the manipulations of Dave, who tries hard to get a handle on his critics so as to be able to manipulate them and get some sort of control or intimidation. He threatens law suits. We know how far he can go. We have more important things in our lives. He has little else.

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