Dave claims they just cover the cost, what a load of bollocks. LOL

The money they received through benefits fraud would have helped also.

I've thought it over and prayed on it and have decided to make a very public offer.

Time to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak.

If there are any Jesus Christians or ex-Jesus Christians out there who may feel as if they are in need of any counseling, therapy, or other specialized support services designed for survivors of high-demand, controlling groups (or "cults" if you prefer), then please allow me to here and now make this public offer to pay for your travel expenses to receive such counseling.

I even know of a therapist who specializes in working with the children of the leaders of such groups, and am willing to extend my offer to help a certain someone meet with this person.

In other words, if there's anybody out there who has left or is in the process of leaving the Jesus Christians, and you want to get some help in transitioning back into the outside world, then I'll pay for your ticket to either Wellspring or Meadow Haven, (or to one of the types of very specialized therapists I mentioned above).

I am not offering to pay for the services themselves, mind you, but the travel expenses there and back.

Anybody who wants to take me up on this offer, knows how to reach me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2010 01:37AM by zeuszor.

Another thing: I am very resourceful, as well, and am plugged in to a few things in the cult recovery/exit counseling world. I don't have the money to sponsor somebody through Wellspring or MH, but I know people that probably
do; the money for counseling and therapy is there, it's just a matter of knowing how and where to find it. My point is: if you have left or are leaving the JCs and am concenred that your lack of funds will prevent you from getting some help, don't worry about it. I'll pay for your travel expenses and will help you find the resources you need in order to pay for your therapy.

Actually, MH operates on a donations-only basis; they do welcome voluntary donations of course (they have to keep the lights on and all that), but there is no charge per se to participate in their program. I have donated since graduating and moving out, but when I first went there I myself was dead broke.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2010 02:18AM by zeuszor.

A generous and well thought of offer zeuszor. Perhaps there are others who would contribute some $$ for such a plan.

Let's ask Dave McKay what he will offer---or should I say "pay" considering that all the members worked for him as slave labor for many years. Surely he would want to be fair and offer them whatever it takes to see them start on their way to new lives. Considering that many people didn't go on the luxury cruise that was offered, they could take their share that would have been spent on the cruise and apply it to some healing. For those who don't feel they need therapy, then how about McKay just giving them their share of community funds to do whatever they want with. Maybe some need a vehicle to travel if they care to continue their witnessing. Maybe some need a down payment on a apartment, first and last months rent. As they likely don't have any form of established credit rating that will help them, some good old fashioned CASH would help.

Come on McKay...anti up here. These people are owed. YOU owe these people.

Actually you owe ex-members too and maybe those who don't "need" it now would accept having their share put towards some therapy or rehab for the members who just left. How about just making sure that people are not stranded in places they don't want to be....what have YOU done Mr. McKay, to ensure that your "friends" are alright?



Do we know for a fact that monies were divided when the group separated? We can't accept D&D's word for anything.

Could some ex people please remind me what if anything they were given when they left?

How did ex members who are here manage? I'm sure not having a credit rating is a much bigger deal now that it was 20 years ago as back then people didn't need to have established credit to rent a home etc. and now that everything is all computers, it will be hard to just start life over without being able to explain where they have been for the last 5-10 years. No references etc. Very rough. As a Christian man, I am sure McKay is concerned for the well being of those who served him so well for so long.

I'd to hear from you directly, Dave McKay. Not your mad mouthpiece. She gets things so garbled and adds her own fantasies to everything....I can't stand to read her nonsense most of the time because it always ends up being about 10% truthful.

Zeuszor-can you give us any idea of the costs of counseling and therapy etc at the places you spoke of? I'm not asking for your personal details I am asking how it runs, hourly rates or is it a package program? Live in? Anything you could explain would be great. Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2010 03:51AM by Styxxx.

The Gianstefani's leaving was the first sign that all wasn't well in the cult. We're talking about two people who from the outside looked fully commited to the cult. Ultimately the cult had ripped their soul out. As far as i could see they were properties of Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God''). We saw how awful they both came across on the tv shows. Roland looked like someone who was unable to show any kind of emotion. Sue just seemed like a very angry lady. We all saw the way she hounded that young girl over a banana. Even on the JK show she sat there rolling her eyes and even attacked a young lady who had been abused in the Children of God.

The fact they had the courage to leave the cult is a great credit to them. It would have been a huge blow to McKay, whom i'm sure had huge plans for young Dan. Something seriously has gone wrong with this cult and that may have been the beginning of the end.




My suspicion is that because where talking about THREE people (including their son!)....that's the "reason" they're out! By that, I mean having the child, led to "divided loyalties" (at least in the eyes of David and others)....that ultimately forced them out.....children are a liability in Daves' sick world.

You may need to speak with others, Apollo....however in my opinion, Roland was ALWAYS unable to "show any emotion"....he prided himself on it, as a show of "strength"....like the marital arts heroes he had....He became worse while serving his time in the JC's as learned to justify his "cold arrogance" to himself...(being worlds above these mere "systemites" don't you know)....

Sue is the tragedy...I only met her the once on the streets of Melbourne distributing literature....at the time she seemed a lovely young woman...as Zeuszor has noted,....mere "survival" in cult circumstances, require one to become "predatory" yourself...I assume that that was gradually changed her, ...however I still suspect that she was the real "strength" behind the "decision" (the decision may have already made for them in Sydney by McKay!) to get out....on her son's behalf.....

I agree with you that the departure of such "stalwart" members would have have reverberations within the cult....

Quote
Styxxx
Zeuszor-can you give us any idea of the costs of counseling and therapy etc at the places you spoke of? I'm not asking for your personal details I am asking how it runs, hourly rates or is it a package program? Live in? Anything you could explain would be great. Thanks.

I'd rather not get into that kind of thing here, and it's off-topic, anyway. I recommend looking through their websites, where all such questions are answered.

Quote
Styxxx
Perhaps there are others who would contribute some $$ for such a plan.

Would YOU be willing to donate toward such a thing, Styxxx?

Styxxx: have you ever been banned from this board before, under a different username?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2010 05:24AM by zeuszor.

OK, here's my THEORY...

In The Last Days, the group was beset by financial crisis. (Yes, a cult based on living without money!). Dave chose to blow all the settlement money from the Johnsons on a luxury cruise, a Bacchanalian celebration of Dave's Almighty Glory. I can't believe that there weren't murmurings among the genuine followers that this was a gross and money-worshipping decision, to blow money on the very luxuries their whole personal philosophies viewed as "dancing with the Devil"......

Soon after that, many members left, and the cult split into small unsustainable cells. There was not enough people power in each cell to maintain the street presence to get the doney money to pay the bills.

- Blackhat

That's an interesting suggestion, Blackhat. There may well have been some financial difficulties. Perhaps you could run that idea past the xjc site. My feeling is that (from what I experienced during my "day") that any major financial implosion would simply be avoided by "someone" declaring bankruptcy (and waiting the five years for that to pass in Aust.) having already distributed any cash or resources among other members across the globe....that the "bills" are almost negligible if you are on a semi-permanent "faith outreach"....that "street presence" does not affect doney income (having frequently been out in teams of two in my years), among other matters...see what "K" thinks of that, though....

(Funnily enough I suspect that McKay now rues leaving the Kenyan property in the names (I believe) of his daughter and son-in-law, a "safe bet" that has turned sour for him, I suspect...)

....the "fairness" of who got to participate in the Cruise though, and should there have been such an item of expenditure, might well have been an issue

[forum.culteducation.com]

Quote
zeuszor
On the matter of the JCs' financing, now that I have given it more thought:

The JCs' main source of income is book sales and other literature and media distribution, and not the kidneys or other body parts and fluids (liver lobes, eggs, etc).

I can only offer conjecture on the matter of how much the JCs may or may not profit form the organ and fluid donations.

But, I have no evidence either way to suggest the group makes money from that. But there's lots of money to be made there, I'll put it this way.

Anyway, the books are printed in India (I believe Chennai, specifically), and once in Australia they are then delivered to Melbourne.

For some reason it’s cheaper or more convenient to get them delivered there, and the Jesus Christians travel by van to pick them up.

Then there's the comics sold on the streets all over the world.

And also the books sold by Amazon i.e. Survivors.

Over 1 million copies of Survivors alone have been sold. Say that they got one dollar USD per copy of Survivors.

And that is just one book of the several that they offer. Adds up, doesn't it?

The Easy English reading books are sold in multiple thousands.

A quote from David:

“I believe that the members of our community are largely convinced that they have a special message from God himself. It just so happens that it has come first through me. They are happy to repeat it in their own words to others outside the community, but they have found that the most efficient way to get the message out to the maximum number of people with the minimum distortion is for them to distribute my writing in print.”

Excerpted from, “Something to Say”, circa August 2000

[www.jesus-teachings.com]

McKay has in the past received grants from the Australian Quakers.

There is a reference to David McKAY receiving a $ 2,000 grant to bring refugees to Australia in a set of minutes from the Quakers.

A further set of minutes has been located in which they pledge another $ 3,000.

It has further been reported that a Quaker woman gave them a loan to help purchase the property in Kenya.

DM and his consort are surely not broke, I'll put it that way.

Does this answer your question satisfactorily, Malcolm?

No-one that I'm aware of has left the JC's (as an individual) with a cent to their name ....as they have put their hand to the "plough"....and looked "back"!

Confirm this though please with the more recent experiences of those on the xjc site.....

Thank you Zeuszor,

..they HAVE become more of a "hard-headed" business since I was involved....although I think the principles of how they would avoid "financial implosion" might still stand.....