Time to reward the positive?

Apart from the opening sentence, which could have simply read: BB says he wishes more could be done to educate people on how DM manages to convince people to do what he wants...

I think I may have had a win...

"BB quotes a passage from a book that tells Joe's story which is worthy of comment. It shows the processes by which the group overcame objections to accept Dave's justifications for the whipping trial:"

The poster on the xJC site then goes on to provide a very good description, analysis and former insider's perspective on how DM works the group dynamic.

I suspect that JC members may peek into both sites, (when no one is looking) and articles (such as this) may trigger something that gets them thinking about how they are being manipulated.

A very good article and response to what I posted. Thank you, K.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2010 09:25PM by zeuszor.

Quote
zeuszor

Quote
sWord

Quote
zeuszor
sWord, maybe you can help us to understand how and why it is, that it seems like certain misinformation about DM's past and the history of the cult seems to get published from time to time on the forum that you own?

Yes, I'm certain I can help you understand that.

By "certain misinformation" I assume you are implying that there is a discrepancy between the recollections from 3 or 4 decades ago of a certain
individual "K", and the information recently uncovered by a PI.

I can only give you a parallel from my own life. In 1974 a friend, Owen, and I rented a house in Lane Cove, with the intention of subletting rooms to
students. Before we moved in I got a casual job interstate. After 6 months, as I had not actually lived in the house, I informed the landlord, and Owen then
became the sole lessee. A series of students sublet rooms.

As I had no idea how long the high-paying casual work would last, I kept my office-space in North Sydney, where I received correspondence-lessons from the
Dept. of Education in Sydney, to mark. My mother picked up the mail and once a week posted it to me in Queensland where I marked it and sent it back.
The Department never noticed that I returned the lessons from Queensland.

After 18 months my job in Queensland came to an end. I returned to Sydney and stayed for some time in the house I had previously rented with Owen. I
remember some of the students there at the time. There were Niels and Rosa, who I'm sure will remember me.

If PI were to look into my life at the time, he could discover from the rental records (perhaps) that I was a registered tenant at 38 King William St. Lane
Cove, from July to December 1974. However, if he came across Niels he would learn that I lived in the house around January 1976. He'd be certain of it as
he'd recall that I helped organise his 21st birthday party.

There was no paper-work involved with my cash-in-hand job in the Cabbage Patch Hotel, Coolangatta. I also had no contact with real estate agents as I stayed
with co-workers.

To summarise my life in 1974-5: I slept all morning in Tweed Heads, then spent the afternoon sitting on the beach marking lessons, and worked 4 nights a week
in the resident band at the Cabbage Patch, just over the border.

According to Private Investigator, however, I lived in Lane Cove, Sydney, and worked for the Dept. of Education as a correspondence marker, from my rented
office-space in North Sydney. Although the facts as uncovered by PI bear some relation to the truth, I think it would be fair to describe PI's version as
misinformation.

Hope that helps, Zeuszor. Reality can be a lot more fuzzy than 'facts'.

I saw sWord's answer and have thought it over. It's not a bad argument, but you don't appreciate how PIs work in the real world. PIs tend to state what is a fact and then confirm additional information, if the budget allows or by providing the facts, they provide leads to the client to follow up.

For example:

The PI might say, rental records indicate that the subject rented an apartment at.... See, that is a fact. The rental records do indicate that. Doesn't say the person lived there. The PI then might indicate to the client that he or she would (for example) be willing to talk to neighbors to ascertain if the person in fact resided at the apartment.

Here's a fact. We have been asking lots of questions to ascertain the truth regarding DM's involvement in the COG, but have been getting very few truthful answers!

Here's a few:

In what year and in what months was David McKay a member of the Children of God?

What was his Bible name?

In what year and what month did he become a Shepherd of his own colony, and how long did he remain a Shepherd?

If he was a COG Shepherd and received COG information, didn't that effectively continue to make him part of the COG organization?

Was the COG in Broken Hill part of the official COG organization or was it Dave's breakaway group?

Did DM use the name Paul in Broken Hill?

Who placed the full page advertisements in the Broken Hill Regional Advertiser in 1976 promoting the COG?

Are those who supposedly know, going on record as saying that the PO Box used by the COG in Broken Hill was opened by Dave McKay in 1973 and that he allowed the COG to continue using it in 1976?

Rather than provide a direct answer to any of these questions (or any others that I might put to them) they choose to ignore me, insult me, make fun of me, tell me to piss off, and basically behave the way the JCs would if they were in the same situation. Exactly what DM would do. I should have known better than to try and have an actual conversation with a bunch of people who learned their PR and rhetorical skills from DM. They always react as if they're still in the group. Hammer/nail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 06:06AM by zeuszor.

Once again everyone here needs to learn to get along and avoid personal attacks.

Stay on topic, which is Dave McKay and his JC group, not individual members.

mistake edit please



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 08:07AM by zeuszor.

Quote
zeuszor
Time to reward the positive?

Apart from the opening sentence, which could have simply read: BB says he wishes more could be done to educate people on how DM manages to convince people to do what he wants...

I think I may have had a win...

"BB quotes a passage from a book that tells Joe's story which is worthy of comment. It shows the processes by which the group overcame objections to accept Dave's justifications for the whipping trial:"

The poster on the xJC site then goes on to provide a very good description, analysis and former insider's perspective on how DM works the group dynamic.

I suspect that JC members may peek into both sites, (when no one is looking) and articles (such as this) may trigger something that gets them thinking about how they are being manipulated.

A very good article and response to what I posted. Thank you, K.

I'm playing the ball, not the player, bpw, and am not trying to hassle anybody personally. What I don't like is being made a scapegoat of. Please feel free to write me privately if you have any further concerns.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 08:08AM by zeuszor.

So, bigpigweed, what exactly is your experience with the JCs? Can you tell us anything about how you know of them, etc. please?

Quote
bigpigweed
zeusor what are your remarks if not insults at other users?

in the last while you seem to be continually on the attack aginst users of this forum.

i try to keep my posts on key but when are you going to quit the daily theatrics.

if a ton of people are on your butt maybe you need to examine how you handle yourself.

i could go back and name 6-7 people youve crapped on but you go spare if someone ignores you?

is there any reason why zeusor has specail privladges to talk off key topic and to hassle people?

its like a one person forom at times when zeusor takes over.

sorry for asking moderaters but you mentined being sick of having to babbysit this forom but the problem seems to go back to the same user zeusor day after day.

i'm trying to talk about the jesus christians not listen to zeusors personal problems with other users.

fair is fair moderaters. if others are thretened with banning for personal atttacks and off key topic how come this one user is alowed to keep this up?

just look back and see who keeps trying to start fights-same user=zeusor

After 17 posts you're seriously calling for Zeuszor to be banned?

Do you have any idea how much Zeuszor has contributed to this thread?

If you read through this thread you'll find alot of people have come and gone but one thing has stayed consistent and that's been Zeuszors hard work and effort in trying to raise awareness of this destructive cult. The same can be said for Malcolm. These two chaps deserve a great deal of credit. They have given up alot of their time for this cause. They don't have to do it, they do it because they care. They do it because they don't want to see other families put through the same living hell which the Johnson's and many other's have been put through at the hands of Dave McKay (former member of the notorious "Children of God") and his cult.

I myself have had one or two disagreements with Zeuszor but you know what, these things happen. I'm big enough and ugly enough to deal with it. I certainly wouldn't be calling for anyone to be banned, that's playing right into McKay's hands. I'm sure he would absolutely love to see Zeuszor banned. Disagreements often happen when passions are running high and this is obviously a very passionate subject to alot of people.

It's time to cut out all the petty squabbling and concentrate all our attention on the cult.

Why thank you for that, Apollo. I salute you.

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2010 08:52AM by zeuszor.

Some of the posters on the board have requested summaries of information, so that people don't have to wade through hundreds of pages looking for the information they need. This is an amended summary of the names believed to have been used or given to Dave McKay over the years., which viewers could copy and paste.

Several board members have contributed to it. If anyone has further names, information or spot errors, I am happy to amend it.

POSITIONING STATEMENT:

"A live-by-faith, work-for-God-not-money Christian community. We distribute Bible-based comics and other tracts, and do free (voluntary) work. Against hypocrisy and self-righteousness in the church. In favour of honesty, humility and love."

CURRENT NAME:

Unknown.

The cult was said to have been disbanded on the 3 November 2010, according to a blog owned by a Jesus Christians' Forum member.

However, there has been no official confirmation by the cult as of this date.

There has been a range of speculation regarding the disbanding. This included the possibility, that it was used as a security measure for a member known to be contemplating a Kidney donation or because an elderly member is suffering from cancer. These appears to be rumours and are subject to confirmation.

FORMER / OTHER NAMES AND BRANDS:

Jesus Christians:

The most recent name, Jesus Christians was adopted in August 1986 to avoid the confusion that the more generic, “Christians” often caused.

Christians or The Christians:

Christians or The Christians is the name/s they used prior to becoming,Jesus Christians.

God’s children:

Name used on literature handed out at the Christian Youth Convention meeting in Sydney (without permission) in 1996.

Voices in the Wilderness:

Voices in the Wilderness was the name that they adopted when they conducted their Prophets of Doom campaign in Rockhampton, Queensland in June 1989.

This stunt resulted in the arrest of seven members, who spent 23 days in jail.

Prophets of Doom:

See comments above.

Nappy Chappies:

The term Nappy Chappies was as a result of a campaign in 1986 and again in 1987, where members dressed in Nappies stood outside the Sydney Royal Show to distribute religious leaflets called, baby books. This promotional stunt also resulted in arrests.

children of God (note small c):

In the baby books handed out they referred to their group as, the children of God, (with a small c) saying they were a remnant of the Children of God.

Medowie Christian Volunteers:

The term Medowie Christian Volunteers was as a result of the group residing in, MEDOWIE in NEW SOUTH WALES in 1988 -1990 and offering to undertake free work in the community.

Nullabor Walkers:

From the 1985 Nullabor walk:

Rappville Christians:

The term Rappville Christians came about in July 1982 when the Community lived at a disused general store at: 7 Nandabah Street, RAPPVILLE NSW 2470.

Rappville is not far from Lismore in New South Wales.

The McKays:

The name was used in a tract entitled, “You can quit your job forever”.

Dave and Sharon McKay and the ‘church’ which is in our house:

Letters were signed with this closing in 1982. Note: Sherian (aka Cherry) McKAY was allegedly calling herself, Sharon at the time.

McKay Family:

The term was used on Christmas card like tracts entitled, “Happy Holidays” distributed in Fremantle, Western Australia by the group in December 1981/January 1982.

EARLIER NAMES:

Earlier names have not yet become publicly apparent.

Dave McKAY was said to have formed his own (COG?) colony (after officially?) leaving the Children of God as a member and residing in Broken Hill. There is evidence that a group calling itself, the Children of God (also?) operated in Broken Hill. This evidence includes full page advertisements that appeared in the Broken Hill Regional Advertiser in 1976 ( available on the Rick Ross visual archive) and information provided by several local sources that were present in Broken Hill at the time.

MISCELLANEOUS NAMES AND / OR DESCRIPTIONS:

The Australians:

Name found on their International Communities advertisement.

Followers of the Lamb:

Name mentioned on Spotlight Ministries Inc website.

Gandhians:

Name they were apparently called whilst they were in India in 1984.

BRANDING:

Godstuff Comix:

Branding on the comics they distributed.

BUSINESS STRUCTURE:

Australian Business Number:

The Jesus Christians have an Australian Business Number: 78 622 540 509. This is a number for business dealings with the Australian Tax Office and in future, with government agencies at all levels.

An ABN is needed to register for GST and other elements of the Australian tax system

The Jesus Christians ABN was registered on the 8 September 2000.