There's always been this awareness in me that the JCs are pretty much of a watered-down, Australian version of the Roberts group (which, by the way, has no official name, but goes by a variety of eponyms). I've always suspected that somehow, somewhere, DM must have studied them, used them as a model of sorts when he in the process of reinventing his own cult (after the split).

I was right. My new friend helped me to prove this connection between the two groups. Basically (long story short, and I have heard the long version), what happened was that DM lied to Roberts about something involving the Christians, then Roberts somehow found out that he'd been lied to and asked the Christians to leave from the Vine Street house where Roberts was living at the time.

Again: I know a man that met Atilla in Berkeley in 1990, and it was Atilla who facilitated the introduction of DM to Roberts. My friend was also present when DM and Roberts first met in Portland that same year. It sure is a small world. Dumpsters divers/Garbage Eaters become Freegans.

More info on the reclusive Roberts cult here:

[nfishel.tripod.com]

[www.culteducation.com]

(The Brethren video that posted in the above link is especially good.)

[www.youtube.com]

Here's a video that I made almost two years ago, in which the two groups are compared.

[forum.culteducation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2010 01:17AM by zeuszor.

David McKay is a liar, a criminal child abuser, a fraudulent con man, a coward, and an all-around evil son of a bitch. David McKay is a vile and sinister agent of evil in the world, and when he dies it will be time to rejoice; his victims will then be assured that he will be unable to continue the crimes and evil activities that he so enjoys perpetrating. How many people, how many children has he abused over the years?

zeuszor : I know you won't like this, but I do have to ask if you are actually able to think of one good thing about Dave - I know Malcolm can - he has said as much before now, as can anyone who has actually spent some time in his community, I expect. I am not an apologist for Dave by a longshot, but am concerned that you will actually harm yourself if you are unable to find even one small redeeming feature in a fellow human.

Remember, anyone deserving of wearing any one of the labels you have offered here, would still have at least one small redeeming feature to contribute to the sum total of their being.

If you don't want to present as being a complete redneck bigot, you would do well to look for that of God which is in all of us - to remember that no one of us is entirely evil, just as none of us are capable of being entirely good - and to bring that awareness to your posts here. I am afraid tho, that you will consider my suggestion to be no more than a recipe for a "tea-party".

Nevertheless, I know that Dave MacKay is a man, that you are too, and as such - you are both imperfect, and need to recognise this. This forum serves its purpose in providing a venue for information-sharing and support. Accusations of abuse would seem valid when issued by some-one who had witnessed or experienced such incidents under Dave's watch, however, since you have not done that, you might benefit from prectising a modicum of self-censorship, and this thread would also benefit, were you to do that.

I hope you don't need to vilify me too greatly for having shared my views - no-one enjoys that treatment, however, I can take the agro, so whatever. At least you won't have to challenge me for "walking into your bar", since you are already aware who I am.

In fact, I believe it was your demands for proof of the identity of every poster and their business in posting there that lead to your exclusion from the xjcs board. When others require annonymity, it needn't be so hard to employ a little discretion, and allow it to them

No, I honestly can think of nothing good to write about DM. In my opinion, he is an evil man and the world will be a better place once he is gone from it.

I frankly feel sheer contempt and actual hatred when it comes to David McKay. In a way, I am ashamed to admit this, because I do not normally HATE anybody, but he has rubbed me very much in a bad way. I tried, I really did, to look for anything good or sympathetic in David so that I would not feel so badly towards him.

You know what? I honestly cannot think of any positive quality in that snake.

Anything that MIGHT be a positive attribute, like his ability to be witty, is spoiled because his wit is always poison sarcasm; it's cruelty, and therfore not a good trait.

Sometimes he is actually funny- but it's always humor at someone else's expense, cutting and unkind.

He is indeed smart, but that's not a positive quality in David's instance, as he has used his ability to write well to beat down and bully others, and to try to make them feel stupid and inferior, so again his "brain" doesn't count as a good quality since it's always used to promote evil.

If one says that he is creative, that too is tainted, because he uses his creativity to deceive and lie and slander and to make up wild stories and suck his disciples further into his abyss.

Even the kidney thing is all a scam, a con for media attention and now he's not as interested in helping people since the media has faded off so he's busy bashing the poor family of Joe.

So I dare you or anyone to tell me something good about the man, that is not used for evil or tainted purposes.

I wish I could see something human in him as it doesn't feel normal to me, for me, to dislike someone as much as I do David McKay.

He just is a selfish wicked nasty little slimeball, and I feel not one drop of sympathy for him, just zero. He is a worthless, painful wart on the rectum of the world, and the world will be a better place once he is out of it.

Furthermore: I just want you to know, Cait, that I do not hate the JCs themselves (other than McKay) nor do I mean you nor anybody else any harm.

In fact, I actually rather admire and respect the JCs for what they (ostensibly) stand for.

All Christians should want to be more like Jesus in thought, word, and deed.

I actually have learned a lot and gained much insight from studying some of the JC studies online.

It's not that I disagree with much of what they have to say with respect to obeying Jesus and his "harder sayings".

It's not that I do not like what they have to say, it's that I do not like how they behave (that is, hypocritically).

In many respects, as a matter of fact, I think that they are right. I do not go to church very often myself, know what I'm saying?

It's just that from where I sit, It looks like they are being decieved, all of them.

All I see is that the end result of being involved with the JCs means that I eventually wind up on the street hawking DM's books. How is that "forsaking all", "trusting God" and not depending on money? The whole point of being a JC is to raise money, it seems like.

Quote
cait
zeuszor : I know you won't like this, but I do have to ask if you are actually able to think of one good thing about Dave - I know Malcolm can - he has said as much before now, as can anyone who has actually spent some time in his community, I expect. I am not an apologist for Dave by a longshot, but am concerned that you will actually harm yourself if you are unable to find even one small redeeming feature in a fellow human.

Remember, anyone deserving of wearing any one of the labels you have offered here, would still have at least one small redeeming feature to contribute to the sum total of their being.

If you don't want to present as being a complete redneck bigot, you would do well to look for that of God which is in all of us - to remember that no one of us is entirely evil, just as none of us are capable of being entirely good - and to bring that awareness to your posts here. I am afraid tho, that you will consider my suggestion to be no more than a recipe for a "tea-party".

Nevertheless, I know that Dave MacKay is a man, that you are too, and as such - you are both imperfect, and need to recognise this. This forum serves its purpose in providing a venue for information-sharing and support. Accusations of abuse would seem valid when issued by some-one who had witnessed or experienced such incidents under Dave's watch, however, since you have not done that, you might benefit from prectising a modicum of self-censorship, and this thread would also benefit, were you to do that.

I hope you don't need to vilify me too greatly for having shared my views - no-one enjoys that treatment, however, I can take the agro, so whatever. At least you won't have to challenge me for "walking into your bar", since you are already aware who I am.

In fact, I believe it was your demands for proof of the identity of every poster and their business in posting there that lead to your exclusion from the xjcs board. When others require annonymity, it needn't be so hard to employ a little discretion, and allow it to them

All of the trolls' antics pretty much ruined my ability to trust anybody who wants to communicate with me in an anonymous fashion.

Now that Ihave answered your question, cait, please kindly answer one for me: what do you see as being the positive attributes of DM's personality and/or character? What good things do YOU have to write of him?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2010 01:31AM by zeuszor.

Jim Roberts, Feroze Golwalla, Ole Anthony, Miller Newton, David McKay.

All of these men are narcissistic, predatory individuals who lead small, obscure cult groups, and who have a predilection for recruiting young kids, the children of persons other than themselves.

Golwalla is presently under house arrest and Ole Anthony is old and decrepit, and neither of these men is presently actively recruiting anybody.

Miller Newton lives in Madiera Beach, Florida and is now called Father Cassian; he is a priest in the Antiochan Orthodox Church. Newton has a small band of followers out there at his "church."

Jim Roberts, as always, is in hiding somewhere, and his cult has dwindled down to approximately 40 members. At their peak, the Roberts group had around 140 or so members to their number.

David McKay is also in hiding, and the JCs by present estimates are fewer than 30 in number.

All of the above are basically the same type of psychopathic personalities, but what sets McKay apart and makes him especially loathsome (to me) is this sadistic mean streak and smarminess that he has about him.

In my mind, there are basically, generally two kinds of cult leaders: those who believe in their own "shtick" and really think that they are doing the right thing, and those who know that they are full of it, but do not want anybody else to figure it out.

McKay is in the latter category, if you ask me. I do not believe that he actually gives a damn about what the Bible says on any given matter, only in the supremacy o his own opinions ans whims.

He is a cynical, sadistic, psychopathic bad man, a monster, and I do not have to empathize with him or any of the rest of the aforementioned demoniac personalities.

If anybody reading this can tell me of one good quality that DM does possesses, that he does not use to try and hurt others, then please tell me. Because I can think of none.

I am so sorry Zeuszor, I had no intention of stir up all this emotion for you when I posted here earlier, and hope we can leave it here.
As I said already, I am not an apologist for Dave : I harbour no illusions as to the total lack of morals and ethics in his behaviour and attitudes. I posted simply because I thought you seemed unaware that your uncompromising stance toward other posters on this board and elsewhere has alienated most of them, bar one or 2 brave souls like Malcolm, Blackhat and Yasmin.
I had hoped this knowledge might be beneficial to you rather than serving to launch you into another frontline campaign. Since that's not the case, please forget I mentioned it, and just carry on as you were. I take your point, I just wish you were able to take mine.

No need to apologize, ma'am. Now that I have (as thoroughly as I know how) answered your question, cait, please kindly answer one for me: what do you see as being the positive attributes of DM's personality and/or character? What good things do YOU have to write of him?

Cait, I do not feel like a hypocrite in calling myself a Christian yet at the same time expressing my strong contempt for DM. Why is this? Because I do not think of DM as my "brother" in any sense of the word, Biblical or otherwise. DM has not a drop of the milk of human kindness running through his veins.

The Scriptures simply do not support a "peace at any price" or "hands off" position. False teachers and false doctrine destroy people spiritually.

Please consider the pastoral epistles where Paul calls out the false teachers by name.

Read about Hymaneus (sp?), Philetus (sp?), and Alexander (1 Timothy 1:20).

We can also look at 3 John where Paul calls out Diotrephes by name.

Then, of course, there is the entire book of Galatians in which Paul speaks directly to the false doctrines infiltrating the church there.

Jude 3 commands us to earnestly contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints. The context of the passage makes it clear that we are contending against false teachers. 2 Peter says very similar things.

1 Corinthians 11 says that some divisions are necessary so that those who are approved by God may become manifest from those who are not.

2 Cor. 11 also has very strong statements about false teachers.

Another great passage is Acts 20:28-31.

Then there is my personal favorite passage on the topic, Ephesians 5:11-12.

And what about 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul tells the church there to deliver the fornicator to Satan for the destruction of his flesh? Paul didn't tell them to give the guy a hug.
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Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2010 07:20PM by zeuszor.

Cait wrote, above:

"...remember that no one of us is entirely evil, just as none of us are capable of being entirely good..."

This is your opinion, and I do not share it. I think that some people are just plain evil.

Another anecdote that I was told by a friend that will illustrate my point:

I know a woman who is about sixty years old, and who is from Florida. There is a time in the late seventies when she was casually dating a man named Chris Hagen. At some point, Hagen quit calling her and she started to wonder what happened to him.

Then she turned on the TV one day and it was being broadcast that the fugitive Ted Bundy had just been apprehended in Tallahassee. She looked at the images on the screen and said to herself, "My God, that's Chris!"

"Chris Hagen" was the name that Bundy went by while on the run in Florida.

Turns out that the woman was dating Ted Bundy for a brief period of time, and never sensed that anything was wrong with the man at all, much less that he was a psychopathic fugitive from justice.

She told me that she remembers "Chris" as smart, witty, intellgent, a good dresser, charismatic, and with many good qualities. She was stunned when she learned of his many crimes.

She never suspected a thing, and tells me that Bundy never aggressed against her at all, and always behaved as a total gentleman. She tells me that he never even tried to kiss her, much less move in a sexual direction.

The fact that my friend is rather short in stature and has curly red hair probably had a lot to do with it, as she therefore was not Bundy's "type" (in terms of sharing the common physical profile of most of Bundy's victims).

My point is, the fact that DM may have some positive or potentially redeeming personal characteristics is irrelevant to the fact that he is still a monster inside, just like Bundy was. The presentation and the behavior do not match in either case.

I know somebody who tells me that "Chris Hagen" was charismatic and witty, too. This is the same guy who was secretly engaging in acts of necrophilia and rape, while dating my friend.

Has anybody ever read anything about the work of one Roy BAUMEISTER?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/07/2010 10:39PM by zeuszor.