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falling_leaves
apollo i think dave has said several times that he does not support pedophilia and as a recent exmember I believe him because I never saw anything in his behaviour to suggest otherwise. and im not just saying that because i was a member but because it would hurt my feelings and I would be offended for anyone to be falsly accused. if people were accusing you of the same thing and I knew it wasn't true then I would speak up for you too. However, I remember that brian was the one who seemed to be the most insistent that dave was a pedophile.

anyway, I still think something is preventing you from hearing what I mean about the cog reference. I think cait was able to see it, maybe others can too. in the end i think I can agree to disagree cause I don't really like trying to force people to see things my way but on the other hand perhaps we can still talk about it if we are both okay to do so. is that okay? thanks

Hey,

All i did was provide a quote which Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') posted on his forum. You can take from that what you like. I certainly haven't accused McKay of being a paedophile. I'm just providing an example of how to this day McKay continues to be influenced by the Children of God. There are other examples including comic books etc which the moderator highlighted.

I can assure you nothing is preventing me from hearing the point you're trying to make. However as i stated earlier i disagree with you. This does not insinuate his followers are in any way involved in lewd sexual acts. I believe it is an important piece of information and i will continue to highlight it.

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falling_leaves
maybe you really are brian!lol this anonymous thing is kind of fun.

That's twice now you've accused me of being Brian in a 'jocular fashion', perhaps you really believe it?

As you're so keen to guess who i may be does that mean i can guess who you may be? ;-)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 12:38AM by Apollo.

Quote:
Zeuszor has played a key role in the downfall of this cult and should be commended for his efforts. He has raised alot of awareness against this dangerous cult and no doubt has saved alot of people alot of pain over the last few years. He is a great man who i wish the best of luck to in the future.

well zeusor is sadly gone now so he wont even know how much you apreaciate him apollo. you ve writen some very kind things about zeusor and i am sure if he was here right now, close by, he would feel flattered and pleased. after all---- praise from a stranger is approbation indeed. *a line from a movie with liz taylor* but no reason fighting with people over zeusor when he has made the choice to leave forever. he will live on in his works that he has left behind

falling leaves-

i think some people thought you were Peter who was a person that either wanted to join the Jesus Chrsitans or else it was some kind of set up to see what dave mackay's reaction would be. there has been much fakery on many cases and we can all know that mackay will take joy in any trouble making. some have mentioned and wondered even if the Peter was a reporter or something that some media had set up if they were investigating mackays cult. it could also have been some sort of authority if they had concerns about the kidney donations or the forsaking all. maybe it could be there was questions with regards to fraud if some of this was conducted by mail? who knows? while mackays cult was always small and pretty unimportant it was important to the family members of those in the group. since joe johnson it is said, just gave up his kidney could it be someone got wind that this kidney donation was in the works and had mounted some investigation into the going on in the group? it could have been an atempt to see how exactly the victims are wooed. are they promised anything? coaxed? bullied? extorted?

you dont have to tell any one anything but people are natch cautious knowing there have been some games played by people.

i wish you every best wish in your freedom. have you been able to reconnect with your family? im not trying to dig just to make friendly conversation.not asking for your details just share what you feel like talking about no pressure.

Old sweetie wife Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') wrote:
Re: The recently departed 08/12/2010 18:17
''my gut feeling is that they are going to get their fingers burnt on this person.

hahahaha

It's happening already. Brian (scuse me, Apollo) and Malcolm are doing such a clumsy job of dumping lies on him that they are just going to scare him away (or have to retract their lies), and the big R is already cautioning him not to question Brian or Malcolm, because he knows that they can't handle the light of day.

I've already worked out who he is, and he's definitely a real JC (whether you want to call him "ex" or not).

Don't forget that I told you from the start that we didn't really disband. Yes, we had our differences, and we went our separate ways, but that's not the same as saying that people stormed off in a hissy fit over not being able to rule the roost, like happened with Kevin and Craig.

I'll tell you again, guys, you are going to get your fingers burnt with this one! lol ''





So last week i was ''Craig Henry'' and this week i'm ''Brian''.. who will it be next week Dave.. Bobby Kelly's granny????

Nobody has dumped any lies David. Fallen_leaves has been presented with a few facts and there's plenty more where they came from!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 03:00AM by Apollo.

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bigpigweed
Quote:
Zeuszor has played a key role in the downfall of this cult and should be commended for his efforts. He has raised alot of awareness against this dangerous cult and no doubt has saved alot of people alot of pain over the last few years. He is a great man who i wish the best of luck to in the future.

well zeusor is sadly gone now so he wont even know how much you apreaciate him apollo. you ve writen some very kind things about zeusor and i am sure if he was here right now, close by, he would feel flattered and pleased. after all---- praise from a stranger is approbation indeed. *a line from a movie with liz taylor* but no reason fighting with people over zeusor when he has made the choice to leave forever. he will live on in his works that he has left behind

Yes you're right bigpigweed he's a wonderful man whose work will certainly live on.

I'm not fighting with anyone over zeuszor. One or two others seem bothered by my recent praise of Brian but that's down to their own issues which they'll just have to deal with i'm afraid. Brian deserves a knighthood for the work he's done and i'll happily praise him in the future.

Can this get any more stupid? Does McKay think anyone here is going to take his word for anything????

"Don't forget that I told you from the start that we didn't really disband. " Says the failed cult leader.

So do you say that Denise was lying Dave? Or does it mean you were lying to her? Does it mean she on her own, went and wrote about the great disbanding? You did not correct this statement for weeks. That would make her appear pretty over involved, wouldn't it? I suggest only a peculiar mind would announce a disbanding that never happened unless she was ordered to do so. Was it perhaps just some game on the part of two people who thrive on drama and who both seem willing to lie then to backtrack and deny?

And you think Apollo and Zeuszor have identity overlaps? Look to yourself and your Fatal Attraction Femme, Dave McKay.

Have you read the Bible verse "Abstain from all appearance of evil" I Thessalonians 5:22, David? Perhaps your members saw this and counciled you to stop this awkward relationship and you refused because your ego requires this fawning flattery and you appreciated that someone was actually going to loudly defend you rather than the weak as water backings you were seeing among your members. Token defenses for your actions rather than firm full out defenses like someone with no pride would offer you? Someone desperate and lonely enough who was willing to trade their support for a little attention?

How do you feel about the insinuations that are being made because of your seemingly strange connection to this woman who spends day and night trolling the internet and looking for ways she can attack people? The apparent uncomfortable "online intimacy" people are discussing should warrant your reaction if only out of respect for your own wife, McKay. Also the way you defend that woman's most revolting abuses of others doesn't do much good when people know she took strips out of you in far worse ways and actually called you a filthy criminal. That all seems to suggest that when people say you are gleefully encouraging and praising her offenses, it's not because of genuine respect or have friendly admiration for her. It's because you wish so badly to hurt and abuse your critics at any price but you lack the willingness any risk on yourself because you know that to go too far opens you to lawsuits. You are more than willing to jeopardize this besotted lonely old lady who no one cares about that much. She's the perfect victim in many ways because she doesn't have a sympathetic personality and has alienated so many people that no one will ever step up to defend her anyway. She's considered a joke on the internet, banned from countless forums and ignored by authorities due to her past history so any later complaints she makes blaming you for her treatments of people will also be met with mocking and disbelief. Don't you have any self respect left Dave McKay?

What a sad ending to a sorry life that he has come down to this level of promoting someone that is known to be disturbed. McKay is doomed to spend his remaining time doing nothing important beyond being a sweetie wife gossip, a lover of trouble making and an expert at creating enemies.

Not much as changed from his life as "cult leader".

RRMODERATOR

Would it be possible for you to check the IP addresses of both myself and Zeuszor to confirm we're two separate people?

I'd also appreciate it if you could confirm i'm posting from a Scottish IP address.

Zeuszor and i have been accused of being the same person which is completely untrue.

I feel this issue is taking over the thread and the sooner it's put to bed the better.



Thank you



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 06:42AM by Apollo.

Apollo,
it is possible per a tech friend to reroute IP addresses through different countries.
But it really isn't relevant to the thread.
The topic is not guessing who anonymous people are.
Falling leaves, it can be very confusing leaving a group that you have given a great deal too, and dedicated a large portion of your life to. It can take a lot of time to sort out what can often be a mix of good and bad experiences. And how people sort things out is very individual. You might also be interested in reading some of the things on John Knapps site; he is ex transcendental meditation, and has a lot of articles that talk about the both the strengths gained , and also the challenges that people leaving groups may have to meet.
You've described yourself as lazy, but it does not seem very likely.
you have made huge committments with your life; not something a lazy person does.Perhaps you might want to reconsider whether you truly deserve that title?
Hope all goes well for you, Yasmin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2010 08:09AM by yasmin.

Apollo and Zeuszor are not the same person.

Now let's move on.

Dear Falling Leaves,

You write in such a similar fashion to David himself, that you may have unintentionally picked up his style....it took me many years to psychologically leave the JC's behind....it will help you to do so more quickly though, by identifying those things that you consider to be factual, and then extrapolating from there...

For example:

Did you have a personal bank account during your time in the JC's?

Did you have any "proprietary rights" such that at the time you left you received compensation for your "share" of the common goods of the collective?

Did you place all and any income, you made into the hands of the leadership, approved by David McKay?

The scripture that David quotes Acts 2:44-5 is thus CONTRADICTED as you would NEVER have held "all things in common"

(Pardon me if the mention of this scripture makes you "uncomfortable"......is that ok? thanks.)


Rather like David, you make assertions, that you then no longer address when you are disproven,

instead quickly moving on without further comment...

For example, you asserted that the JesusChristians, (in noble fashion!) "pay" the way of those who join, without "forsaking" any great amount (as McKay of course would much prefer).

I responded that the unpaid labour members engage in, raising hard cash, selling McKay's "literature" on the streets, vastly over-compensate for the "living" and "travel" arrangements, that McKay might claim that he makes....

Would you mind replying? (How much money were you pulling in for McKay on average, do you think? What does it "cost" McKay for a bunk in a van?)

You have ignored my response, and instead "moved onto", claiming that you are offended by references to your Kidney donation, cannot engage in a "competition" discussing the various scriptures McKay prostitutes, that remarks conclusively tying McKay to the Children of God, "worry" you....

the jc's were a volunteer group, malcolm...No falling leaves, the jc's were a unpaid "work-force" that McKay materially benefited from,

you may though "disprove" me, by nominating say, the independent auditing report, or producing the documents of incorporation and the constitution for the "volunteer group" that McKay may have instructed you to publicly describe your bondage as......

.......complaining that my questions are "unfair" and that they "hurt" you, wouldn't quite be an "answer" now....would it?

Thank you very much Malcolm Wrest for the well worded comments. Since credit has been so thickly given to Zeuszor, I would also like to comment Malcolm Wrest for his ever well thought out and valuable contributions. Perhaps if we practiced a greater attitude of gratitude when people contribute, we would appear less like the cult leader who takes pleasure in grievances. That said I think BlackHat has been an extremely brilliant contributor who has been generous with support and very kind to people while also gathering a great deal of information. She has been very wrongly attacked by David McKay in quite rude and hurtful ways.

I'd like to ask falling leaves a question if I might-are the former J.C. members allowed to post on Davids forum and if so where are their posts if you know?