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Dave
There must be more than a hundred pages of hate written over the past few months specifically about Denise Matteau (on the two hate sites). Denise, a 57-year-old Catholic artist, frequently chats into a video camera in her little apartment in Austin, Texas, discussing such things as her budgies, her paintings, and her hobby of growing orchids. Like so many posts on Youtube, Facebook, and similar blogs, hardly anyone ever watches these videos.

However, because Denise has expressed anger against the tactics used on the hate sites that have targeted me personally, and because she has named some of the key players on those sites, she has become the object of a worldwide hate campaign, stretching from Scotland and Korea to Canada and Australia.

I have been impressed by the way that Kevin reacted to at least one of the criticisms. Denise said that he was part of a gang, and he said that he was not. When it comes to such issues, that is really about all people CAN say on one side or another.

But when people choose to hit back by insulting someone's looks, weight, hair, eyes, pets, etc. they really do show a lack of rational argument, and a childish hatred that is not going to win support from thinking individuals.

Sisi (Susan Summers), rants on incessantly, with what must be AT LEAST ten insults for every one that Denise has ever made about her. (Though I have to admit that I must be missing something, because I have yet to find evidence of most of the things that Sisi says Denise has said. I'm not saying that Denise has NOT said such things, but if Sisi were to include a link occasionally, people could see for themselves, and her accusations might carry more weight.)

I have been criticised for not joining in the outrage against Denise's more extreme statements (including a theory, at one stage, that we JCs were supplying jihad martyrs for Muslim extremists). But what is the point? In my case, a more tolerant approach seems to have borne better fruit than the actions taken by so many of those on the hate sites who have found themselves criticised by Denise.

Franky Ma (aka Jezebel or Hello) has been a standout exception. She has taken a courageous stand against the growing cast of rock-throwers by speaking up in Denise's defence. She does so on the basis of claims that Denise is suffering from a mental illness which may be beyond her control. Brian Birmingham (who has also pushed for a little less anger toward Denise) has been quite honest about his own mental illnesses, and there have been signs that both Sisi and Franky Ma may have had some serious "episodes" at some time in their past as well. Franky says:
Whatever else is going on - Denise should be left alone. Mental illness is an ILLNESS. Rightly or wrongly with regards to some of her allegations - we should show love and compassion. I don't want her to be highlighted and used as a pawn on either side. As Brian suggested ( in so many words in an earlier post ) let's just stop giving it energy.

But Franky may as well have been talking to a brick wall, for the most part.

Glenn Griffiths, writing as Styxxx, said of Denise to Franky:
This nut is placing phone calls and sending out slanderous videos to peoples work places. Have you actually seen her videos? Have you seen the letter a Seattle lawyer has sent a few people outlining some of her other ways dsm/little rose has attacked innocent people? I have seen 2 letters drafted by lawyers with regards to her so people are taking action to stop this madness.

This habit of talking about "slanderous videos" being sent out to an unspecified number of work places, and real life "phone calls" (horror of horrors!), all said without providing any actual evidence, is typical of almost all of the attacks. How many employers received "slanderous videos" and what did the slander say? (I know of only one and it apparently asked several times if the person referred to was Susan Smith Summers (i.e. Sisi). When it was determined to Denise's satisfaction that the person was not, Denise publicly admitted that she had made a mistake. I think the music therapist had totally gotten over the mix-up. So what is Sisi's problem?)

On a thread which has been noteworthy (in the past) for its provision of links to sources, it is surprising that hardly any of the criticisms of Denise Matteau contain a single link or direct quote. We are just told that she is slandering people, and doing and saying despicable things that have supposedly ruined people's lives. But what things? That is the big question.

Then there are the supposed letters from lawyers who are going to sue Denise, have her arrested, get her committed to a mental asylum, etc. Almost everybody on those two sites appear to have seen the letters from these exhibitionist "lawyers"... everybody, that is, except Denise herself. When the dust settles, it becomes apparent that all of the people who have testified to having "seen" the actual letters may actually be part of a conspiracy to spread lies about legal actions that have no basis in fact.

Then there is the attempt to link Denise with myself. Virtually all of the characters involved in this hate campaign against her have been kindly allowed to post on this forum at some time in the past. But they all seem convinced that it was a crime of the worst kind that I should have let Denise post here. And I become immediately responsible for everything she has ever done or ever will do.

Glenn continues:
Much of the discussion about her is because McKay set her upon people and allowed her to use his forum as a place where she could scream her delusions about people, with very little admonishment against damaging libel. She allowed herself to be used as a weapon against people that McKay was angry at and for some insane reason she willingly took over and went far beyond disagreeing or name calling. She got into people's lives in a serious and dangerous way and now action has had to be taken to stop this before someone ends up ruined by her lies.

How about it, Glenn? Have you got some actual quotes from this forum where all of this horrific stuff has supposedly been taking place. Screaming delusions, damaging libel, weapons against people, which go far beyond name calling, dangerous actions, ruined lives? Sounds impressive. But where are the quotes? There must be hundreds that you could produce after a description like that! Or can you?

Glenn goes on:
Mentally ill people don't have the right to ruin lives at will. She is just a vicious embittered ragaholic that unfortunately connected with Dave McKay and she lovingly and eagerly became his weapon. Perhaps if you view her prior posts on this forum under the user name of dsm, you will appreciate how she actually cult shops and forum shops for outlets to rage at. Otherwise do a web search on her name on the internet and just see the masses of enemies she has created by inserting her big mouth into as many controversial issues as she can. She is notorious and has damaged her own personal reputation beyond repair with her blogs and rants yet she somehow blames others for her horrible reputation. She rages relentlessly. She also brags that she is intent on causing as much damage to people as she can.

Once again, the rhetoric continues unabated, but actual quotes are scarce as hen's teeth. "View her prior posts," Glenn says. How about you show us ten or twenty of her former posts, where she is notoriously ruining lives, being used as a weapon, with vicious rages against a long list of forums, and boasts about how she wants to cause as much damage to people as she can. I myself have done several web searches, using her name, always thinking that I must have missed something. But I have not been able to find the things that you speak of. It may well be that buried ten pages into the thousands of links that come up under the name Denise Matteau there is something about a ten-year-old legal action against Tupperware, or some equally innocuous piece of evidence to support your own hatred and that of so many others. but I, for one, have not been able to even find that much. I have no doubt that Glenn and others have done what they could to damage her reputation beyond repair, but I cannot see that her few posts really measure up to the infamy that you and others have given her, Glenn.

Glenn concludes:
David McKay is able to abuse people quite nicely all on his own. For him to suggest that "we" are somehow bullying her, makes them both look insane. After all, McKay has shown himself very happy to attack people maliciously after he has stuck a mental illness label on them.

Let the discerning reader take note of the kind of things said in this post and dozens of others like it and decide for themselves who is bullying. Sticking a mental illness label on a person is not bullying. But using that mental illness label as an excuse to bully them further is what concerns me with regard to the treatment that Denise is getting.

And this is particularly true with regard to the horrific post by someone from Melbourne saying that they were going to make videos ridiculing Denise's daughter, who had just committed suicide. While Sisi and others choose to ignore that little elephant of a post, they give it tacit support by saying things like, "I support anything that is done to her because she has brought it all on herself."

Susan Smith Summers (Sisi)'s mental health was brought into question last year, when it appeared that she suffers from a multiple personality disorder. Just like the self-confessed mental disorders that Brian Birmingham has, these things do not, in my opinion, justify mistreatment of people. (I have often been criticised for defending Brian, even when he was viciously attacking me. and I do so because I accept that some of his attacks are manifestations of his obsessive compulsive disorder.) Nevertheless, the mere fact that I pointed out Sisi's possible mental illness (and discussed whether there was a genuine threat to Sisi's welfare on the basis of an apparently imaginary "aunt" who took over Sisi's computer from time to time) has, for more than a year now, constituted unspeakably cruel treatment in Sisi's mind. Sisi makes the dangerous mistake of telling herself and others that any amount of abuse she can throw back at Denise (or me) is justified, on the basis of an eye for an eye... or perhaps ten eyes for one eye. And she gets tacit approval from others over there.

Below are some comments from Sisi:

Dave set that vicious viper up to attack me. Both of them misidentified the music therapist and slandered her to pieces when it was clear they were wrong. Your delusions that you are the "victim" is a joke because all that people ever seem to do to you is laugh at you-NO CRIME THERE.
Silly old bitch. And YES that's rude but you earned it. Dave's defense of this freak shows his own low moral compass. mocked her messy hair and a bird dancing on her head, [and] laughed at her off key singing.
Don't f*ck with me on legal matters, Denise because you WILL lose. you are going to choke on the muck pretty damn quick! Denise "earns" people's anger because of the way she lashes into people. It's understandable that people lash back at her because she is simply so vicious and evil, in my opinion. Those of us who have been on the receiving end of her daily lies and slander videos and blog might feel it's a bit much to excuse her on the grounds of mental illness. She is going at people through their employers.

NOTE: These are excerpts from just one short thread on the X site, and the subject of that thread was NOT Denise. I just don't have time at the moment, to collect up the hundreds of other hateful things that Sisi has said in the past few weeks.

Now something that confuses me is that Sisi makes some specific claims about things that Denise supposedly said to her, and yet I recall seeing a fairly long post from Brian (ALL IN CAPS) in which he personally confessed to having called Sisi (or accused her of) all of these things himself. Is Sisi suggesting that Brian and Denise worked together on those things, but that only Brian was honest enough to own up to it?

My guess (and it can only be that, because so far I haven't seen ANY of the posts, emails, phone conversations, or whatever they may be that has Sisi so upset) is that a lot of this stuff is coming from the Youtube nuisance... who has been around much longer than Denise.

Everything about the Youtube Nuisance suggests that he is one of the leading characters in the debate about ourselves. Quite some time ago, I think it was Blackhat who said that she thought it was Al Antony. More and more evidence has emerged to make that theory look stronger than ever. Al's posts as BigPigWeed, and Glenn's posts as Styxxx, as well as that extremely cruel and hateful post about Denise's daughter, Faith, should make us all want to track down who it is that is playing both sides against the middle.

What the Youtube Nuisance is doing is so much like what the Devil does in the Stephen King thriller, "Needful Things", where he sets out to turn everyone in the town against one another. The Youtube Nuisance does seem to be quite evil, even "demonic", and yet people seem to be pretending that he does not exist as they carry on with their rages and threats against one another over a bit of name-calling.

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Apollo
Ultimately Dave (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') and Cherry's relationship is of no great concern to me. My main concern is seeing people like Joe and all the other ex members reconciled with their families. The best place for Dave would be either a mental institute or jail. At least that way he'd be off our streets and no longer in a position to target and groom young teenagers.

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zeuszor

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Apollo
Ultimately Dave (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') and Cherry's relationship is of no great concern to me. My main concern is seeing people like Joe and all the other ex members reconciled with their families. The best place for Dave would be either a mental institute or jail. At least that way he'd be off our streets and no longer in a position to target and groom young teenagers.

I have heard Cherry described by a very recent x-member as the "Igor" to DM's Dr. Frankenstein, a fawning, loyal lackey eager to do the will of her master. She has been described to me as a very submissive woman who is obedient to DM, and who patiently takes all of his controlling abuse. She has been married to DM for almost fifty years. Chances are, she will never leave him. I also once heard an ex-member's mother tell DM to his face that she felt sorry for his wife (that is, Cherry), and Cherry said, "Don't, please don't." She has chosen to be where she is, and she has chosen to do what she is doing, in my opinion. What a pathetic person she is. I once heard her tell somebody not to feel sorry for her, so on the whole, I don't.