Thank you very much Zeuszor,

That is EXACTLY what I'm looking for.....David unmasked!...and David then, later psychopathically lying about being unmasked....

May I be so bold to ask your opinion on another matter? I had always assumed that in the event of it going bust, (...it was always going to be just like the collapse of North Korea...complete denial and apparently utterly impregnable....then a laughable shambles on it's collapse, when all the rotten weakness within, was exposed),.....that David would at least retain a "core" of the devoted....those who could not as much, conceive of a future without him...

....it's just in the new "revamped" site......Where are Christine's postings? Or Ross's postings....Has Cherry, his own wife, walked out on him too?

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Malcolm Wesley WREST
Thank you very much Zeuszor,

That is EXACTLY what I'm looking for.....David unmasked!...and David then, later psychopathically lying about being unmasked....

May I be so bold to ask your opinion on another matter? I had always assumed that in the event of it going bust, (...it was always going to be just like the collapse of North Korea...complete denial and apparently utterly impregnable....then a laughable shambles on it's collapse, when all the rotten weakness within, was exposed),.....that David would at least retain a "core" of the devoted....those who could not as much, conceive of a future without him...

....it's just in the new "revamped" site......Where are Christine's postings? Or Ross's postings....Has Cherry, his own wife, walked out on him too?

The plot thickens..

Perhaps Dave's online affair with Denise was the final straw for Cherry?

There's no doubt we haven't heard the full story here. There's definitely more to this than meets the eye. Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') is the only person we've heard from for weeks. That alone is very suspicious. Where are the rest of the ex cult members? Should they be reported to the police as missing persons?

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Malcolm WEsley WREST
Thank you very much Zeuszor,

That is EXACTLY what I'm looking for.....David unmasked!...and David then, later psychopathically lying about being unmasked....

May I be so bold to ask your opinion on another matter? I had always assumed that in the event of it going bust, (...it was always going to be just like the collapse of North Korea...complete denial and apparently utterly impregnable....then a laughable shambles on it's collapse, when all the rotten weakness within, was exposed),.....that David would at least retain a "core" of the devoted....those who could not as much, conceive of a future without him...

....it's just in the new "revamped" site......Where are Christine's postings? Or Ross's postings....Has Cherry, his own wife, walked out on him too?

You’re welcome, Mal.

What DM desires is to be at the center of a group of unthinking and unfeeling people who are totally obedient to him. What DM wants (basically) is control. This is because he needs to feel powerful. Anything over which he has no control is a threat to his narcissistic self-image and therefore (to him) must be defended against. That’s it, in my opinion, in a nutshell: what he wants is control for its own sake. His little solipsistic pseudo-forum over there is just sad, too sad in my mind to be worthy of comment. He has his own little domain where he has complete control, just like God.

What it boils down to, is that DM hates anything or anybody that he cannot control. DM derives pleasure from manipulating people, period. If he figures he can take someone down the garden path by exploiting some ambiguity of language, then he will. But if that doesn't work, he has no problem with out and out deceit. It doesn't matter to him, the only point is to get a reaction. His behaviour is similar to that of serial murderers, who, once in custody, pretend to wish to divulge information about unsolved crimes, but really don't want anything but attention. He loves to make folks dance. He isn't concerned with his own credibility, just with exerting control over other people, whether it's by enraging them, or deceiving them, or as he must do in his work exploiting people's misery, feigning empathy. The only goal for him is to get a response that he feels he controlled. It's all about control and nothing about dialogue with DM.

I’ve said it before and I’ve said it again: in my mind, anybody who thinks that they can think up a way to reason with DM lovingly in order to show him the error of his ways and thereby induce him to make some positive changes in his life, is like somebody who is trying to figure out how to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end. Anybody who repeatedly attempts to do so is setting themselves up for disappointment. The rescuer syndrome is a vale of tears to the rescuer. No, trying to reason with DM is pretty futile, in my opinion.

Better to see him locked up somehow, for his own good and that of society. But he’s in hiding and that’s just as well; in a sense, this may be even a worse fate than jail, for him. In any case, he’s not recruiting anybody right now, or buddying up to somebody else’s kid, and that’s more or less all I care about. He knows he’s being monitored.

When I was at the conference last summer, I had dinner with this one person who is a therapist from the UK who works with people who are coming out of abusive groups. This person was in the States for the conference and some other business. At one point, I asked this person if they knew anything about a group that is active in the UK, and known as the Jesus Christians. They say, “Oh, yes, they’re the ones who got in trouble over that young boy some years back and…” and then this person slowed and said something like “…and then their leader was on that Jeremy Kyle program. I have a DVD of that show back at my office. Hey, weren’t you…” So I admit it, I got a kick out of being recognized by some non-American stranger at a conference as the “You’re not Jesus, Dave” guy from Jeremy Kyle. It was gratifying to know that we’d achieved that kind of exposure against the JC cult, and to be individually recognized for it.

My point is, that there are those who say that I have been, and continue to work against the JCs to feed my own ego, to satisfy my own need for attention, to satisfy my own supposed need for narcissistic supply as if I were just as evil as DM himself, as if zeuszor were the REAL cult leader. Such things are as absurd as they are untrue. None of this has done anything at all to enrich or edify my life in a direct way, nor have I profited from any of this at all, in any sense of the word. As soon as I start to organize press conferences and calling out the TV crews to warn the locals about Dave McKay, then somebody can accuse me of trying to generate attention for myself. Hell, I once nearly quit, but decided not to as my conscience would not allow it:

[forum.culteducation.com]

Sure, there is a bit of “fruit” to be shown for DM’s ministry. He apparently had some good kids and taught them some good things, and he’s helped people to read and understand the Scriptures in new and provocative ways, myself included. But mostly the McKays (DM and 3PO, that is) have nothing to show for themselves except for a lot of human suffering wherever they go. Some days I wish I’d never heard of the damn Jesus Christians.

Sometimes poking around these forums, for me, is like having to sit in a room that is full of second-hand smoke. It was good to get some “fresh air” over Thanksgiving break.

Zeuszor,

Thanks for reposting my chat with Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'').

The big issue for me during that chat was McKay accusing me of being worse than a murderer..

Dave McKay wrote:
''You see, lying gossips are worse than murderers, because they destroy whole groups of people. You are a lying gossip.''

This comment alone gives an insight into Dave's state of mind leading up to the 'disband'.

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bigpigweed
no apollo much as you want a fight it seems i have nothing to say to you so would you leave me alone please?

my last post was:

-----agree malcolmn seems an inner sanctum would only be useful for people already members, if they all have scooted then new people would never find him. haha, good.

the new names regestering could just be mckay playing around desperatly trying to make the thing work. haha.

seems he has been utterly dumped like a load of shi---i mean manure.------

which was entirely to do with the jesus christian topic so again please leave me the hell alone. i dont give a damn who you are. you were pming me as was zeusor-you both were asking me the same questions
why are you here? why are you here?----so it seemed to me very suspicous and i asked if you were the same person since you pestered me both at the same time within minutes of each other and with the same questions in the same hostile stile.. i just dont care now okay? you are not the center of my discusions. drop it and leave me alone. the defensice way you post is much like zeusors but whatever there can be 2 people who like to infight i guess and i am not joining up so both you and zeusor please stay out of my pm and i will have nothing to say then okay?

dammmit zeusor goes for turkey brake and now apollo starts up the need to infight.....

I DONT WANT TO ANSWER YOUR PM'S ABOUT WHY I AM HERE OR WHO I KNOW ETC OKAY? I REFUSE TO ARGUE SO FOR THE LAST TIME PLEASE DROP THIS CONTINAL COMMENTING AT ME.

getting back to the jesus christians dave seems to be wanting this new forum of his to reqire people to be approved by him and he will check out all postings before they are alowed up to screen for trolls. that seems fair enough as thats how many sites operate and it works. but it only works if the moderater is fair and doesnt altar posts.
also given that dave mackay is fine with the likes of dennise mateau nasty postings as long as they suport him then i question how good that forum woiuld be for new comers who would be turned off i asume if she takes after them.

i would be curios to know if the x jcs who ran the site for dave will ignore his cries for help.its not that hard to set up the type of site he wants so maybe it just wont happen. he might have to pay for support.
it would be cool to have some x jcs show up and post here just to hear there take on things but i dobt that will happen unless you get someone who is realy angry at mackay. its to bad this site has been so villified by dave mackay becuase now i dont think any x;s would dare post here in case they incur the rath of makay. maybe as time passes someone from there will come and tell there story id be intesrted.

i was reading on the writtings of mr graham baldwin and he seems to have followed the jesus christisns for years. would be so cool if someone like him was to find out what is really going on and if the jcs have really busted down for good. nice if he would post here. i emailed him but it could have been an out dated adress but i wanted to take the chance and see if he still followed the cult and his opinins on the changes.

Hi bigpigweed,

If you go back and check your PM's you'll find i initially sent you a message which read 'hi bigpigweed how are you?''. You replied by accusing me of being Brian. I had absolutely no issues with you up until that point. If someone accuses me of being someone else then i feel i have the right to defend myself.

So in the space of a couple of weeks you've tried to get zeuszor banned and accused me of being Brian, Dave would be very proud of your efforts.

[forum.culteducation.com]

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zeuszor

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rrmoderator
Kath:

What Zeuszor is doing is not "preaching."

He is listing scriptures that demonstrate how Dave McKay is not qualified to be a leader according to the New Testament.

These are meaningful points to be raised in a suppsedly bible based group.

Rather than trying to convert anyone Zeuszor is pointing out to any Christians that Dave McKay can be seen as a fraud, according to the bible.

This is important considering that McKay uses the bible like a weapon to manipulate people.

Thanks Zeuszor and don't stop posting here about McKay.

And judging from the posts at McKay's board you hit a nerve.

OK RR, I with your blessing and counsel I won't. This group is too volatile for me to sit back and do nothing. If I am in a position to do something about it, I will try. My whole goal, my agenda here is to try and attempt to prevent people from getting hurt. [i:82555c7ab1]Physically [/i:82555c7ab1] hurt. No, I cannot in good conscience sit back and do nothing. Sorry apostate, sorry Kevin.

[b:82555c7ab1]‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’[/b:82555c7ab1]

Sorry guys, I cannot, my conscience will not allow me to, do nothing. I'm baaack!

God, has it been almost four years? Where does the time go?

For me, it's mostly been like living in a room full of second-hand smoke for the last four years. My two-day break helped me to see that.

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Apollo
Zeuszor,

Thanks for reposting my chat with Dave McKay (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'').

The big issue for me during that chat was McKay accusing me of being worse than a murderer..

Dave McKay wrote:
''You see, lying gossips are worse than murderers, because they destroy whole groups of people. You are a lying gossip.''

This comment alone gives an insight into Dave's state of mind leading up to the 'disband'.

You're welcome, Apollo.

you really want some sort of fight, don't you apollo? dave would be proud. he likes to keep fights going and to drag up old isues to. seems a few people found your styles simalar. must be concidence like olekeiron and zeuszor being said to be the same. coinceidence we are told. i don't want to fight so would you please stop with the comments. im enjoying reading youre 2 posts then zeusors 2 posts-nice to see malclm got a look in or else this whole page would be the "two" of you complimnting each other and thanking each other.

im here to talk about the j.c's. if you cant post civily to me then dont say my name.

thank-you, <apollo>.

Verity Evangelene wrote on the xJCs site:

At RR Apollo says:

"Perhaps Dave's online affair with Denise was the final straw for Cherry?"


I find that comment a bit much and wish those type of comments wouldn't be made. I read some bible passages lately about marriage, when the topic of the term "consort" came up. I wanted to see if the word was Biblical etc. but I was reminded in my readings about marriage and unions, how very sacred marriage is and how we are ordered to not do anything to tear down a marriage.

I have no respect for Denise and frankly little caring for anything said against Denise but I do think there should be respect for Cherry, who as far as I see, doesn't engage in vicious smears against people like Dave and Denise both do. It cannot be easy to stand solidly by a man who behaves like Dave does and she must be hurt when remarks are made that cut into her marriage.

Dave and Denise feed off of each other while both labeling each other as mentally ill but I don't really even know what a "online affair" would entail but I think we need to caution against making a mockery of anyone's marriage. Denise isn't able to understand the sanctity of marriage and I don't think she could even understand what she is making it look like....I don't know if she ever has been married herself but she is clearly very jealous of other women and their solid family relationships because from her own reports, she has always had such severe estrangements within her family. For anyone who has read how horribly she exposed her own family in the Lennox 7 blog she did, I am sure they wrote her off long ago after she did that to them.

Hi Verity,

I find alot of your posts very insightful and i quite often agree with what you say however i feel you're going over the top in your recent defense of Cherry McKay.

I'm quite happy to stand by my initial comment. I certainly don't feel i went too far.

I have a huge amount of respect and sympathy for the mothers and fathers who have been torn apart by this cult but i can't say the same for Cherry McKay. In a way Cherry is a victim but we can't just dismiss the role she played in building up this dangerous cult. Cherry wasn't just some naive teenager who Dave took under his spell and into the cult. Cherry has stood side by side with Dave right from day one. She has sat back and watched her husband tear apart numerous families, even encouraging it at times (Johnson's third party thread). She's certainly not as culpable as Dave but at the same time she does deserve to take a share of the blame.

Cherry McKay contributed to the Johnson's third part thread which i think most people would agree was designed to ensure Sheila Johnson would be painted as the 'devil'. As a mother Cherry McKay really should have known better. I certainly didn't see her offering Sheila Johnson any compassion or respect in that thread. Here's one of her posts..

Cherry wrote:
''There was a boy I heard about who was throwing stones at someone's window with a group of boys. When his parents questioned him about it his explanation was that "some" boys were throwing stones at the windows. He didn't own up to his own active role in the crime or show remorse for it. This sounds so much like Sheila's long awaited apology after years of denial and false accusations against JC's. (eg she condemned what happened to Reinhard) People sometimes don't like to face the truth about themselves or their own actions. Perhaps in time it will come, but there is a danger that she will begin to believe the stories she has concocted to protect her reputation and self image. Then there will be little hope left for any kind of reconciliation.''

To me this sounds like Cherry McKay trying to play judge and jury (despite the fact Sheila Johnson had already faced a real judge and jury and did not face any charges), and at the same time trying to offer some parenting skills (despite the fact she's completely disowned some of her own children). The last sentence in particular leaves me feeling extremely unnerved, it's almost as if Cherry McKay is trying to bait Sheila Johnson. Who exactly does Cherry McKay think she is? How dare Cherry McKay tell Sheila Johnson ''Then there will be little hope left for any kind of reconciliation''. That's an awful thing for one mother to say to another. Can you imagine how Sheila Johnson feels having to read comments like that?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2010 09:46AM by Apollo.

Ultimately Dave (former member of the notorious ''Children of God'') and Cherry's relationship is of no great concern to me. My main concern is seeing people like Joe and all the other ex members reconciled with their families. The best place for Dave would be either a mental institute or jail. At least that way he'd be off our streets and no longer in a position to target and groom young teenagers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2010 10:12AM by Apollo.