Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Adrian
()
Date: November 14, 2010 08:07AM
It seems that Kevin is defending Dave because I described him as a "heinous monster" and that's fine. However, he misrepresents my feelings about xjcs. I hold ex-members in high regards. I think they are fortunate to live in the freedom that all humans should enjoy.
I have a lot of respect for Kevin and I'm sure it's tough to hear characterizations of his dad. Dave McKay has hurt numerous families and caused much pain too. I don't hate Dave Mc Kay but he is who he is.
I have a lot of respect for Kevin and I'm sure it's tough to hear characterizations of his dad. Dave McKay has hurt numerous families and caused much pain too. I don't hate Dave Mc Kay but he is who he is.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: November 14, 2010 08:46AM
Dave wrote:
"But a better example is paedophilia. Kids are not FORCED to have sex, and yet society says it is wrong. I know, I know, they are not adults. But you see, we each have our restrictions that we think makes it wrong or doesn't make it wrong."
No wonder McKay is compared to David Berg and the COG. This quote comes right out of David Berg's school of thought.
Welcome to the sick and twisted world of Dave McKay..
"But a better example is paedophilia. Kids are not FORCED to have sex, and yet society says it is wrong. I know, I know, they are not adults. But you see, we each have our restrictions that we think makes it wrong or doesn't make it wrong."
No wonder McKay is compared to David Berg and the COG. This quote comes right out of David Berg's school of thought.
Welcome to the sick and twisted world of Dave McKay..
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: November 14, 2010 08:48AM
FIVE HUNDRED PAGES and counting! Salut!
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: November 14, 2010 08:52AM
WOW 500 pages, quite a milestone.
A big well done to everyone who's contributed and keep up the good work!
A big well done to everyone who's contributed and keep up the good work!
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Apollo
()
Date: November 14, 2010 08:56AM
Quote
rrmoderator
I have been qualified and accepted as an expert court witness in ten states, including US Federal Court, through what is called a "Daubert hearing."
IMO--the so-called "Jesus Christians" are a cult group.
Dave McKay essentially dominates and defines the group, whatever he says is right is right and whatever McKay says is wrong is wrong, whether it's giving up a kidney, becoming estranged your family or being whipped.
And in my opinion, McKay, like most purported "cult leaders," is little more than an ego-driven con man.
He preys upon and lives off of his followers, including his wife.
Most of the media coverage McKay has received over the years reflects this.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Sadly, McKay seems to only use Jesus and the bible as a means of manipulating people for his own benefit.
Apparently, McKay has no empathy and little if any sympathy for the families and individuals he has hurt over the years.
He offers excuses, blames others for his misdeeds and generally can rationalize virtually anything.
A mental health professional, such as a psychologist or psychiatrist, would likely find if they examined Dave McKay, that he is suffering from a personality disorder, e.g. NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) and likely is a psychopath.
If you want to find out what "Dave" is really all about try disagreeing with him and refusing to give him what he wants, adamantly and steadfastly, without caving in.
The magic word that usually strips the sheep's clothing from the wolf is "NO."
Cult leaders don't like that word.
They will label those that express such contrary and independent thinking as "rebellious," "prideful," "arrogant,' "ungodly" etc. etc.
But this is more of a projection and a means of dismissing criticism than anything accurate or meaningful.
McKay has done such labeling with former JCs and critics, including at times, even his own children.
It's easier than most people realize to fall into a cult's trap, everyone is vulnerable at the right time and right place.
People fall prey to cults because they appear to offer high ideals, great spiritual truths, unconditional love, attention and generally make people feel special and good, at least initially.
But becoming dependent upon a cult leader is potentially dangerous and not in your own best interest.
And what might be at first perceived as good about a cult group, can be seen as little more than a con game of "bait and switch."
This has been proven historically through past cult tragedies like Jonestown, the Waco Davidians, Aum, "Heaven's Gate," etc. etc.
All the members of these groups believed they had found the "truth" and "godly" and/or "good" leaders, but they had been hooked by a cult instead.
Lately it seems like cults are constantly in the news--polygamist groups abusing children, the so-called "Followers of Christ" allowing a child to die through medical neglect, bigamy charges and labor violations filed against the leader of the "House of Yahweh," a baby found dead connected to "1 Mind Ministries," an elderly woman found dead at "Immaculate Conception Chapel" and on and on.
See [www.culteducation.com]
Cult groups all claim to be faithful, following the bible and/or only doing what God or some claimed higher power tells them.
But does God really want us to do what they do?
Dave McKay offers the same sort of verbiage to explain his behavior.
Psychologist Margaret Singer, the most recognized cult expert of the 20th Century, once told me that cult leaders are just plain "evil."
Following someone evil is not good.
"God" doesn't want anyone to join a cult.
A little reminder of why we're all here..
An excellent post by rrmoderator which deserves a bump.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: November 14, 2010 04:39PM
On page 491 I wrote:
Now the statistics read:
Total Messages: 19992
Total Subjects: 659
Let's see.....24483 minus 19992 means that 4491 messages have been deleted. Going on averages, most of those messages would be things written by Dave, things which people here have responded to.
Destroying evidence is a last resort. I rest my case.
Quote
Two days ago, after the "Introduce Yourself" thread had been removed, the statistics at the bottom of the JC Forum were:
Messages - 24483
Subjects - 895
Right now the statistics show:
Messages - 22869
Subjects - 832
This is a wholesale whitewash.
Now the statistics read:
Total Messages: 19992
Total Subjects: 659
Let's see.....24483 minus 19992 means that 4491 messages have been deleted. Going on averages, most of those messages would be things written by Dave, things which people here have responded to.
Destroying evidence is a last resort. I rest my case.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Agur
()
Date: November 14, 2010 06:01PM
I'm sick of anyone saying Kevin defends Dave. Kevin has continued to speak out against lies and against Dave's verbals on people. Kevin has more self control than I do and he doesn't get all personal and lash into Dave as others maybe, as I have done but no one will ever tell me that Kevin McKay has failed in any way to stand up to any of the serious situations like the whipping of the man who stole some books or the cruelties Dave has enacted on the jc forum. So Kevin speaks without wild hysterical emotions and he remains principled, you show me where he defends the actions that we are speaking out against. Kevin has actually been the one to bring up topics and raise awareness of the groups activites and to offer insight based on his experiences. Don't you think every time he writes a comment critizing Dave, he knows that one more day he remains estranged from his elderly parents? Dave has blamed Kevin for so much that others do on forums and then those same people from other forums blame Kevin for not doing enough against Dave. Can Kevin ever get a break?
Has he ever said the whippings were fine and dandy?
Has he ever said any person deserved the verbal bashings they get when they disagree with Dave?
Time and time again Kevin has taken Dave to task very very strongly over issues that he did not have to even bother with but he does so because he doesn't like to see people bullied or their character assasinated without any proof. He has defended people who have ripped into Dave when they have felt hurt. He has validated people's feelings and not ridiculed them. He's welcomed people to the ex forum and he makes no attempt to control that forum, he's just a member like anyone else.
I'm sick to bits with anyone thinking Kevin needs to do anything other than what he does weekly which is to contribute to the forum in a positive and principled way. I feel some people think because they can't "get" at Dave directly that it's the next best thing to pounce on Kevin and they forget Kevin could have left the cult with his own little family and walked away never saying a public word and maintaining somewhat of a relationship with his father but instead he took a principled stand and sacrificed family harmony to stand up for what he believes is right. It's pointless to expect some raging raving rabid outbursts from Kevin McKay instead of reasonable, honest and truthful accounts of his time in the Jesus Christians because he isn't DAVE. God knows there are enough of us who rant so why not appreciate a voice of reason for a change?
I wonder how many people here would have been able to behave with the same courage and understanding if it was their parent that was the recipient of some of the comments that are made about Dave, mine included. In the time I have known Kevin, I have lashed into Dave terribly at times and viciously too, going way overboard and not ONCE, NOT ONCE, did Kevin McKay ask me to cease, not once did he get nasty with me, he was understanding about my upset expressed genuine regret that I had felt so hurt by his father so don't ever tell me that Kevin is anything but a hero.
Has he ever said the whippings were fine and dandy?
Has he ever said any person deserved the verbal bashings they get when they disagree with Dave?
Time and time again Kevin has taken Dave to task very very strongly over issues that he did not have to even bother with but he does so because he doesn't like to see people bullied or their character assasinated without any proof. He has defended people who have ripped into Dave when they have felt hurt. He has validated people's feelings and not ridiculed them. He's welcomed people to the ex forum and he makes no attempt to control that forum, he's just a member like anyone else.
I'm sick to bits with anyone thinking Kevin needs to do anything other than what he does weekly which is to contribute to the forum in a positive and principled way. I feel some people think because they can't "get" at Dave directly that it's the next best thing to pounce on Kevin and they forget Kevin could have left the cult with his own little family and walked away never saying a public word and maintaining somewhat of a relationship with his father but instead he took a principled stand and sacrificed family harmony to stand up for what he believes is right. It's pointless to expect some raging raving rabid outbursts from Kevin McKay instead of reasonable, honest and truthful accounts of his time in the Jesus Christians because he isn't DAVE. God knows there are enough of us who rant so why not appreciate a voice of reason for a change?
I wonder how many people here would have been able to behave with the same courage and understanding if it was their parent that was the recipient of some of the comments that are made about Dave, mine included. In the time I have known Kevin, I have lashed into Dave terribly at times and viciously too, going way overboard and not ONCE, NOT ONCE, did Kevin McKay ask me to cease, not once did he get nasty with me, he was understanding about my upset expressed genuine regret that I had felt so hurt by his father so don't ever tell me that Kevin is anything but a hero.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: November 14, 2010 06:31PM
What she said. Very much so.....
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
zeuszor
()
Date: November 14, 2010 07:22PM
That's all well and good, but I think that we ought to focus more on doing something to bring DM to justice by seeing him incarcerated, rather than turn this thread into another version of XJCs. All I ever tried to do was make information on the JCs available to the public and help out a few parents. And I have never felt as if I needed his blessing to do so. Kevin seems to think that I am every bit as twisted and evil as his father, that I am the real troll, and I resent it. I feel like his scapegoat. I am not asking for any credit or glory, merely some respect.
"For a change?" So, there is and has been only one voice of reason all along, and it's that of Kevin? Is he the arbiter of "logic and reason" now?
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 07:31PM by zeuszor.
Quote
Agur
God knows there are enough of us who rant so why not appreciate a voice of reason for a change?
"For a change?" So, there is and has been only one voice of reason all along, and it's that of Kevin? Is he the arbiter of "logic and reason" now?
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/14/2010 07:31PM by zeuszor.
Re: "Jesus Christians," "Australian cult," Dave McKay
Posted by:
Blackhat
()
Date: November 14, 2010 07:43PM
Zeuszor wrote:
My involvement on this forum has never been to see anyone incarcerated. I have simply wanted potential members of the Jesus Christians to be aware of what they are getting into.
I have no desire to see anyone incarcerated.
Quote
but I think that we ought to focus more on doing something to bring DM to justice by seeing him incarcerated,
My involvement on this forum has never been to see anyone incarcerated. I have simply wanted potential members of the Jesus Christians to be aware of what they are getting into.
I have no desire to see anyone incarcerated.
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