To whom it may concern:

The is a public message board.

Anyone can see this message board, without being a member.

Even if you have been banned from directly participating, you can view the threads from any Internet connection point.

Whatever difficulty someone is having at their connection point would be a glitch there, not anything set up from here.

For example--Ptolemy Glenn is now complaining about people here engaging in "slander and hate posts" about him.

As you may know Glenn was and is banned from this message board, but apparently he has no problem whatsoever visiting and reading it.

See [forum.culteducation.com]

Per the disclaimer "...all messages express the views of the author, and each author is held responsible for the content of his or her message."

Please avoid personal attacks and always do your best to stay on topic.

Thanks you

Quote
Agur
I know Brian means well and has suffered as a scapegoat. I have been guilty of blaming him for things that I now believe DID come from another source who wanted to blacken Brian's name and to hurt me at the same time. This is not just my opinion, it was proven to me by a trusted person who located the exact unheard of vile terms used against me are posted elsewhere on the internet and the author signed his name to them so I believe he was the source and Brian only maybe repeated things but was not the author of the lies and ugliness. Anyway it is past and all is forgiven on all sides with Brian and I.

Thanks for that. Yes, I feel like I have been made into a scapegoat in some circles, too.

Most of the XJC clique seem to think that I am as twisted and evil as DM himself, or that I am the real troll/YouTube nuisance, for example. That's all ludicrous.

And for another thing, I am the source of zero percent of those dirty rumors about you, Agur. All of that has come from the Glimmer Twins.

Thank you for explaining things RR Mod. :)

As for Glenn, I feel as though people are stating and discussing their experiences with the jc's that involve Glenn and he has been a very vocal supporter of McKay going out of his way to pubically voice support of the jc's so I can't see why he objects to his own words being reprinted here. If he is back on the fence, that's news to me because only a few weeks ago he was in full support of the jc's and slamming any critics with terms like "kooky" and "nut". He has had no problem discussing people with Dave in public ways. I am curious why he views it as "slander" when he is talked about....doesn't that seem like quite the double standard when he so willingly talks against others on the jc forum? Very hypocritical like McKay's raving about "Lady Gossip" when he is the biggest gossip going. I assume Glenn is just peeved now that he has no forum on which to "discuss" people so he thinks that means people shouldn't mention his name but I don't see the discussion of Glenn as personal attacks when people are refering to his years long interest in the jc's and his verbose support of McKay. By the way, Glenn, slander is spoken word...writen word is libel.

Zeusor-I understand your point that people can look things up and learn the jc history but you must admit the pages and pages of information here, in the JC visual archieves thread, on the ex site and even on McKay's Circus Forum are so extensive it can seem daunting to try to search for an answer so therefore that's why I often ask something that I likely could find elsewhere if I had hours and hours to search.

I know the same stories are often repeated but take Malcolms experience within the jc's....I think it is worth his reposting at least a summary periodically so that new comers have an ex's direct experience to hand because again, it's overwhelming to face the pages and pages of jc info. Those who might be tempted into communications with the jc's might not take the time to search back to 2006 posts so repeating important highlights could actually help someone who just pops in here for a quick look.

I think it would be awesome to have some sort of summary of McKay's activities and the cults scandals etc all in point form complete with links as proof or whatever so someone can look at a time line and fact sheet without going thru pages and pages of posts. This could be posted once a month or something on this thread and would not have to go into great detail but rather just a good brief point form easy to read description of the cult. It could include topics like:


Malcolm, Kevin, Craigs and Tony's Stories-(those who agree to share could be asked to write their own experience in a small paragraph, if they want a link to their full story could be made available)
Kidney Donations-who all has given and the dates-again links to the longer stories could be made available
The Whipping Trial
The Johnson's and Joe
The Split

Anita Foster Scandal
The Whipping of the Keyan Man for stealing some booklets
Taking Bobby Kelly
Betty's Situation
Jeremy Kyle
Dave McKay's Articles or Opinions on Topics such as homosexuality, celebacy, masterbation, marriage, children, women, honest to whom, bleeding the beast, etc.

I know there are other important issues. I can't think of everything off the top of my head and granted I am not the one to write anything short. This is just an idea as many times I forget some of the oddball doings of the cult and can't easily find the answer I want. I'm not suggesting postings about people's personal lives or families here-I think it would be fair to ask people to contribute if they wanted to and if they would rather not be mentioned respect that....just summaries of the things that a potential might not be made aware of or easily find while browsing.


Just a thought....sort of like a Wikipedia Page.

Quote
Agur
think it would be awesome to have some sort of summary of McKay's activities and the cults scandals etc all in point form complete with links as proof or whatever so someone can look at a time line and fact sheet without going thru pages and pages of posts. This could be posted once a month or something on this thread and would not have to go into great detail but rather just a good brief point form easy to read description of the cult. It could include topics like:


Malcolm, Kevin, Craigs and Tony's Stories-(those who agree to share could be asked to write their own experience in a small paragraph, if they want a link to their full story could be made available)
Kidney Donations-who all has given and the dates-again links to the longer stories could be made available
The Whipping Trial
The Johnson's and Joe
The Split

Anita Foster Scandal
The Whipping of the Keyan Man for stealing some booklets
Taking Bobby Kelly
Betty's Situation
Jeremy Kyle
Dave McKay's Articles or Opinions on Topics such as homosexuality, celebacy, masterbation, marriage, children, women, honest to whom, bleeding the beast, etc.

You mean, something kinda like a dossier?

That's a fantastic idea Agur. We could start a new thread and call it 'Dave McKay's Hall of Shame'.

We could also highlight his infamous quotes like ''lying gossips are worse than murderers, because they destroy whole groups of people''. I'm sure there are many more.

You really are the little archeologist at times yourself, zeusie old boy.
No need to “miss” Dave too much it seems. ;)

No Brian *SIGH*-I was pretty careful NOT to use the term "dossier" because I didn’t want to start up old issues that cause bad feelings.

Dossier defined by Wikipedia-A dossier is typically a briefing paper based on an individual of interest in police or intelligence circles. They generally contain a relevant biography, most current information on activities and any special information of interest to the agency, such as having training in various specialized fields . When the target in question has retired or died, or is of no further interest, the dossier is generally filed away for reference. If the information contained inside or the identity of the person is too sensitive, the dossier is destroyed along with all records of it. (bold added)

So Brian-even if I was to use the term 1 page dossier---it seems Wikipedia definition supports that the information be RELEVANT and CURRENT. It doesn’t mention including half truth’s, gossip and totally irrelevant information and it sure as hell doesn’t suggest anyone goes recklessly mailing around said “dossiers” so the likes of little rosie crackpots can get their malicious claws on said dossier. Because when you do disseminate “dossiers” that include names and addresses and employers, schools, family, photos etc, you risk that little rosies and their vengeful spiteful unconscionable insanities can use that dossier and hunt down someone, could be the wrong person but hell we KNOW THAT won’t stop that type from spewing out their rage in whatever form satisfies their need for hate. Then you get the crackpot who goes another step and throws acid in the face of someone’s second cousin because that cousin’s name was included in “said dossier” or they just figured.....same name....close enough....and harm the wrong person. While the person who commits the act is responsible, surely no one would like to have contributed to the tragedy by willy nilly sending out the information that aided the loonie in causing agony.

I suggested a one page brief summary FACT sheet and made it really clear that people be allowed to tell their own stories if they chose to be included. I suggested something that would be an easy quick read summary of the group, their beliefs, their past history and the highlights of some of the controversial fiasco’s that get white washed on the jc site or by Dave. I carefully listed some of the topics that would be of interest to potentials like the fact they might be encouraged to give up an organ, cut ties with their families, or get the hell whipped out of themselves.
I did not suggest member names, addresses, photos, bank info or Great Aunt Fanny’s Gynecologists name and his wife’s sisters photo as she’s in the shower! I was pretty cautious to make it clear peoples privacy should be respected. I WOULD NOT suggest names and addresses of ANYONE-just activities the group participated in, former names the group used, anything that is a known fact that would help someone decide if this is a group they want to get into.

Present FACTS so that the potential doesn’t just get the jc spin and their initial friendly patter aimed to entice new people- the truth of what others have experienced-otherwise we look like a$$es ourselves. We also are NOT police or detectives or vigilantes. The FACTS are colourful and awful enough without getting into gossip and rumour. Also I clearly suggested the fact sheet be posted on the internet, NOT MAILED TO MY RELATIVES OR VARIOUS AGENCIES in some smear/name and shame campaign. The FBI and CIA can do their own investigations, I am sure, although no harm is sending them REVEVANT NEW DATA on a cult’s activities but that was NOT what I was suggesting. I was hoping our interest would be the “little guy” just browsing the internet looking for some life answers and who might stumble upon the jc's or whatever name they decide to use next.

Got me now? ):<

Ptolemy Glenn is now complaining about people here engaging in "slander and hate posts" about him.

Moderator

A specific compliant from Glenn, rather than simple repetition of McKays tactic of groundless, wholesale accusations would help deal with this.

Presumably I am one of THE "people" engaging in "slander and hate posts" that Ptolemy Glenn is complaining about ...(and I dispute that I've made a remark about any FACTS concerning Glenn, that are, from an objective point of view, not the case...where I have "erred" though in a statement that I claim to be a "fact" I will certainly correct it)...an option for Glenn would be to present his views to one of the "regulars" on the xjcs.jc site, who could then reproduce the gist of them here. I am not aware of any former JC member being "banned" from this site, hence they are free to post here....Glenn only needs to "befriend" them, and they can relay his concerns....

.....several of the xjcs,jcs regulars, "vacated" this site, due to the "insufferable" postings that Zeuszor and I are forever guilty of, and which hence, I presume they felt would have "tarred" their image in the public eye.... I welcome their return (in shining armour on valiant, white steed to rescue "damsel" Glenn, from my clutches!)..as Agur has stated, they have important testimony in relation to the years they spent in McKay Inc. that I certainly don't have, and which deserves to be shared....

I will probably hold a different (read cynical and despairing!) on McKay's future than they do....they are of course completely free to reject that, and present their own....I only ask they allow me the "space" to be my little "negative", old self....

We also are NOT police or detectives or vigilantes.

Agur

That may well be true for most of us.....however it is possible that one day we will be "authors" (....and then will be duplicitously labelled as "vigilantes" by whatever may be left of the JesusChristians....for which we would need to be prepared to face up to!)

Dossiers,....DOSSIERS,....DOSSIERS! Oh God, I DESPISE them!...... (All I hold in my tiny hands, is a wee, little "manuscript".....!)

Actually, I already have a copy of a "fact sheet" that I was going to distribute at the ICSA conference, but never did. Somebody will have to email me to obtain a copy of it.

Yep, I have a copy right here. Three pages. Anybody who emails me gets a copy. I had this written last May, but never did distribute it at the conference, I decided against it. Anyway, come get one!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 09:57AM by zeuszor.

The facts of McKays decline into deceit and fraud are reasonably well established in my opinion. We need to be aware of this (I'd LOVE one of those fact sheets, thanks Zeuszor)....and warn the "world" at large.......however, what if anything, is worth "saving"....?

Something that appeals to me is the teaching that "sincerity" before God, IS fulfillment of the need to "respond" to Christ.

Some months ago, at a local Church's bible study, I stated that individuals such as Mandela or Gandhi HAD "responded" adequately to Christ, in that they had (by all reports) live ethical lives of honesty and service to their fellow humans...(What I would consider to be JesusChristian "orthodoxy"...at least at the time I was interned)...I was of course challenged on this....and some months later the local minister delivered a sermon, where he specifically stated that Gandhi (in particular) had NEVER "acknowledged" Christ as Lord and hence was indisputedly "unsaved"(I suspect in quite specific response to what would have been reported I had dared to say!!).....

(I of course, reference Matthew 25 (as I would once have done, when I was a member of the JC cult) where many of the "sheep" were completely UNAWARE that they had acted as Christ would expect of his followers...ergo, they were NOT church attending "Christians"....!...)

I completely an utterly reject as UNBIBLICAL, this pharisee like parsimony.... (and hence haven't bothered going back to that particular church ever since)... the "JesusChristian" perspective (personally I think it is far more accurately attributed to groups such as the Quakers, and their "that of God in every man" approach, ....however, from whatever source David McKay.. or David Berg...may have purloined the idea) remains my own personal perspective...and I would think the principle stands, irrespective of "low" McKay himself might have sunk.......!

It has been easy(really VERY easy!) to say what we all dislike in Mckay.....

what (little) we may find to like....will be more difficult to define, yet I would think that this is a crucial part of the total "equation".....~!